U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Weather
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
 
 
Old 10-03-2009, 05:32 PM
 
Location: New York City
2,792 posts, read 2,599,185 times
Reputation: 1631
That's a little too stringent IMO. It would make anything north of Tallahassee, FL or Baton Rouge, LA too cold to be subtropical. The coldest low should be at or above freezing - then Atlanta or Dallas are still included.

 
Old 10-03-2009, 07:16 PM
 
Location: Vancouver, BC
5,526 posts, read 3,749,456 times
Reputation: 1980
I think the idea of having a hottest month requirement as subtropical doesn't really work either as there are many places in the world like San Francisco, Addis Ababa, Mexico City, Quito, Bogota and Valparaiso, Chile which would not qualify. These places are clearly subtropical as evidenced by the vegetation....and the fact that snow is very rare in these places. I think the coldest month is more important. I think 6C works fairly well as it would disqualify many maritime climates (including Vancouver, London) but maybe a coldest month of 10C would work better.... hmmm but then that would disqualify places like Atlanta and Dallas....

Anyways, I think the suitable upper bounds to stop it from being tropical is the 18C in all months regime that Koeppen used and if the place has never recorded a frost.
 
Old 10-03-2009, 07:22 PM
 
Location: Long Island
7,621 posts, read 8,871,608 times
Reputation: 4854
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMarbles View Post
That's a little too stringent IMO. It would make anything north of Tallahassee, FL or Baton Rouge, LA too cold to be subtropical. The coldest low should be at or above freezing - then Atlanta or Dallas are still included.
Yeah that would make more sense, too bad NYC would be excluded from the Subtropical Climate as our coldest low is just below freezing at 27F.

I like how it currently is though, cities with averages above 32F are Subtropical.

I recall they wanted to divide the current Cfa climate (Humid Subtropical) into two semi-separate Humid Subtropical climates, I believe they did the same thing with the Dfa climate (Humid Continental) creating a Hot Summer Subtype and a Warm Summer subtype. It would make sense to make a warm Winter Subtype and a cool Winter Subtype for the Humid Subtropical climate, both experience Hot Summers so they couldn't really differentiate that lol.

Last edited by Infamous92; 10-03-2009 at 07:35 PM..
 
Old 10-03-2009, 07:29 PM
 
Location: Vancouver, BC
5,526 posts, read 3,749,456 times
Reputation: 1980
Yes that's a great idea....the warmer and cooler subtypes would work well....maybe having the cooler subtype having a coldest month between 0C and 10C and the warmer subtype with a coldest month between 10 and 18C. Also, maybe have it so that at least 8 months of the year have an average temperature of 10C or higher to fit into the subtropical category. What do you guys think of that?
 
Old 10-03-2009, 07:44 PM
 
Location: Long Island
7,621 posts, read 8,871,608 times
Reputation: 4854
Quote:
Originally Posted by deneb78 View Post
Yes that's a great idea....the warmer and cooler subtypes would work well....maybe having the cooler subtype having a coldest month between 0C and 10C and the warmer subtype with a coldest month between 10 and 18C. Also, maybe have it so that at least 8 months of the year have an average temperature of 10C or higher to fit into the subtropical category. What do you guys think of that?
Would the 10C requirement be for average highs or averages (high + lows)?
 
Old 10-03-2009, 07:49 PM
 
Location: Vancouver, BC
5,526 posts, read 3,749,456 times
Reputation: 1980
the 10C would be the average temperature for the month. For example: If a month has an average high of 15C and an average low of 5C, then it would have a 10C average for that month.
 
Old 10-03-2009, 08:00 PM
 
Location: Long Island
7,621 posts, read 8,871,608 times
Reputation: 4854
Quote:
Originally Posted by deneb78 View Post
the 10C would be the average temperature for the month. For example: If a month has an average high of 15C and an average low of 5C, then it would have a 10C average for that month.
I like that idea, a 7 month requirement could work as well.
 
Old 10-03-2009, 08:10 PM
 
Location: Wellington and North of South
4,003 posts, read 2,668,414 times
Reputation: 1669
This scheme from an Australian BOM paper looks good. A significantly changed Koppen.

OBJECTIVE CLASSIFICATION OF AUSTRALIAN CLIMATES

They have an 18C annual mean boundary for subtropical, so Perth qualifies but Sydney doesn't, if I've read their averages correctly.
 
Old 10-04-2009, 06:39 AM
 
Location: Portland, TX. (next to Corpus Christi)
1,657 posts, read 2,050,170 times
Reputation: 3753
I do know this... most areas that normally would be considered too far north to be subtropical, may have subtropical characteristics at given points during the year. Take Dallas, TX. for example... they are said to be humid/subtropical, but only from spring through mid fall. Late fall, and winter are considered Contintental in character.

This statement could be held true for most of the SE part of the USA. The only areas of the SE that would qualify for a year-round subtropical classification then, would be South Texas (particuarly coastal sections), some coastal areas along the Gulf Coast (Galveston/NO/Mobile/Pensacola), and much of Florida, minus some of the interior northern parts of the state. The desert SW of the USA would also meet this classification for a semiarid subtropical year round, as well as Southern California.

So, based on the above thoughts, what areas would be the farthest north that have a YEAR ROUND subtropical character (on average)? Remember, based on average means that one or two artic air masses might make it to this area, but overall the winter season still holds the subtropical variant. I have also noticed this is about where the line for palm trees and other more "tropical" variety of plants will grow IN THE WILD as well.


Ian

Last edited by txsizzler; 10-04-2009 at 07:42 AM..
 
Old 10-04-2009, 07:13 AM
 
Location: UK ex-pat in Lanzarote, Spain
264 posts, read 770,060 times
Reputation: 101
If you include European places then Canary Islands (off the coast of Africa but part of Spain) with a yearly average temperature of 70 or cape verde islands (again off Africa and part of Portugal for years) with an average of 71. The canary islands were voted the best climate in the world recently according to an American research company due to the mild climate, few/no natural disasters and being on the same equator line as South Florida.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.



All times are GMT -6.

2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top