Most Northern Subtropical climate in the world? (hot, warmest, averages)

[deneb78]

Hi all,

Which do you think is the most northern Subtropical climate in the world? Somewhere in Europe perhaps?

[MrMarbles]

Define "subtropical"?

I'd say southern France and northern Italy.

[deneb78]

Yes, well there are varying definitions of course... the one I like is a place with 8 or more months with an average temperature of 10C (50F) or greater and no month with an average temperature colder than 6C (43F).

[tvdxer]

Sochi, Russia (43.6N) - average temperature 57F, palm trees grow there

[MrMarbles]

I was going to mention Yalta, Ukraine but it is only 40C in January. It also has palm trees.

[deneb78]

True, but just because a place has palm trees does not mean it's subtropical. There are palm trees here where I live in Vancouver, BC but I'd hardly call it subtropical here. In fact some palm trees grow as far north as Norway (62N) due to the gulf stream.

[MrMarbles]

Summers have to be warm enough, too. According to Koppen classification, at least 22C/73F during the warmest month.

[deneb78]

hmm... true enough in most cases. Problem with subtropical climates is that they are hard to pin down. For example, somewhere like Quito, Ecuador or Bogota, Colombia would both be considered subtropical climates but neither of those places have any month that is over 22C. In terms of most northern or southern for that matter, I think using the 22C isotherm would probably be appropriate considering the winter season would be much cooler and thus would need the hot summers to be considered subtropical.

[MrMarbles]

It is also a very broad climate range. Under some definitions, NYC is considered subtropical because it has hot summers and January averages temp at only 0C/32F. This makes it the most northern subtropical location in North America but also puts it in the same category as much warmer cities such as Orlando or Houston.

[tvdxer]

To be subtropical under the Koeppen system a location must:

> Have a mean temperature between -3C (26.6F) and 18C (64.4F) for its coldest month
> Have at least one month over 22C (71.6F)
> Year-round rainfall distribution OR a much drier winter than summer

Sochi, Russia fulfills these requirements.

In the U.S., the northernmost location I can find that surely fulfills these "requirements" is Providence, RI (41:44N).

Inland (at least) the temperature requirements are fulfilled as far north as Kansas City, MO, Elsberry, MO (north of St. Louis); Charleston, IL; Indianapolis, IN (right on the edge); Dayton, OH; Columbus, OH; Erie, PA; Pittsburgh, PA. (Yes, Erie is "humid subtropical" - coldest month is 26.9, warmest 72.1).