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When I was younger, I thought having an engagement ring was very important, but now I'm way too practical to want an engagement ring, many of them are very pretty, but I see it as an unnecessary expense. When we get married, we will both receive rings, which we will both wear, I don't need an extra one just because I'm a female. The money would be better spent on a nice vacation or towards something for the house that we will both enjoy.
First, I have read a lot of your posts as well as the responses of many towards your posts, and I must admit that while I've pretty much stayed out of that, you do appear to come across with a very low opinion of women and a bashing attitude towards them. I know you claim to not have had a real relationship, and in my opinion, if it is something you at some point do desire, I would suggest you look within yourself to find out where your anger towards women comes from and deal with that situation first. Otherwise, I seriously doubt you will have a relationship because there is no way that you will not be carrying that attitude into the relationship and I don't know many women who will constantly want to be putting up with that.
Having said that... now about this post in particular.
Quote:
Originally Posted by victorianpunk
I have thought about this, as I usually think about all things that people just except at face value, and I can't help but think...what's in it for the guy?
I mean, a man spends thousand, upon THOUSANDS of dollars for a women to have some ugly, glass-like rock picked out of the dirt by some poor enslaved kid in a war-torn part of Africa, and what the heck does he get in return?
Hopefully he is getting a lifelong commitment from the woman he loved enough to propose to. That is what he is getting in return. The engagement ring is a symbol of that commitment. It doesn't have to cost thousands upon thousands of dollars. In fact my engagement ring was purchased while on sale and was under one thousand dollars. By the way, it is far from being an ugly, glass-like rock. It is beautiful in fact. At least to us and to others who have seen it and feel the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by victorianpunk
A "I DOOOO!" and a hug! I mean, why can't she buy him something in return?
No one says that she can't. In fact in some relationships the woman has been known to purchase an engagement ring or some other token for the man as well. It's a generalization to assume that a woman never does. The fact is that each couple does what works for them both to the traditions they hold and want to uphold and what they each individually or together can afford.
However, from your statement here, in the underlying message that is coming across (at least to me) is that you don't believe in giving something unless you are going to get something in return. Well if you are "expecting" something in return, it kind of takes away from the whole meaning behind giving a gift. Thats like me going out on Christmas and only purchasing a gift for someone who I know is going to give me one in return, rather than simply purchasing a gift for someone because I want to give them a little token of my appreciation or affection for them. When giving a gift to someone it should not come with strings attached to it or an expectation of equality being their. Of course with an engagement ring there is a level of expectations there in the sense that the man hopes and expects that the woman will say yes and that they will end up spending a lifetime together, however, it should not be given to her because he expects a ring or a sword or whatever else in return from her.
Quote:
Originally Posted by victorianpunk
IF I ever get married, after I give her a opal, obsidian or thulite ring, set in (hopefully) reycled titanium, and she accepts, I will respestfully give her some time to let it sing in and than let it be known that I will expect an authentic antique functional sword at some point before the wedding. Nothing particular...but a katana would be sweet
Hey, fair is fair, if I'm shelling out the money to show my love for her, than why shouldn't she shell out the money to show her love for me?
And if I didn't get a sword, than there would be no wedding and I'll take the ring back, thank you very much. Fair is fair.
I wish you luck with that. I mean as far as the tradition goes, if you don't believe in traditional proposals and engagements thats all fine and dandy. No biggie, just don't do it and be sure that you are compatible with the girl, meaning she doesn't believe in it either.
However, this whole part of your post goes along with what I previously was saying about only giving a gift expecting something in return. When it comes to relationships however, having that mentality of everything always having to be equally fair and what not to the material level is (in my opinion) an unrealistic expectation. I mean in a situation like that a man could never simply bring home some flowers for his g/f or wife without her feeling that now the next day she has to go out and buy him some too as god forbid he would feel it is not fair. Well that kind of takes away the whole meaning behind giving her the flowers and instead of making her feel appreciated, now she feels pressured and obligated to return the gesture.
Furthermore, based on the scenario you presented there, if the wedding would be called off and not happening because you didn't receive that sword.... HMMMMMMMMMMMM I would say you have no business getting engaged or planning a wedding to begin with. Marriage is a commitment and it is something that should be entered into with a lot of thought and consideration and not based on some materialistic items or notions.
So if this is truly your view and what you base the entire event on, I would suggest you do yourself and the woman a favor and not propose or go forward with such plans until you can truly appreciate what it is really about... two people professing their love for each other and promising to love one another and share their lives together for the rest of their lives.
Funny, I don't recall ever reading or hearing any marriage vows where it states... "I promise to repay any gift or expression of affection you give me with a gift or expression of equal or more value for as long as we both shall live".
Nope, can't say I've heard or seen that. But who knows.
I have thought about this, as I usually think about all things that people just except at face value, and I can't help but think...what's in it for the guy?
I mean, a man spends thousand, upon THOUSANDS of dollars for a women to have some ugly, glass-like rock picked out of the dirt by some poor enslaved kid in a war-torn part of Africa, and what the heck does he get in return?
A "I DOOOO!" and a hug! I mean, why can't she buy him something in return?
IF I ever get married, after I give her a opal, obsidian or thulite ring, set in (hopefully) reycled titanium, and she accepts, I will respestfully give her some time to let it sing in and than let it be known that I will expect an authentic antique functional sword at some point before the wedding. Nothing particular...but a katana would be sweet
Hey, fair is fair, if I'm shelling out the money to show my love for her, than why shouldn't she shell out the money to show her love for me?
And if I didn't get a sword, than there would be no wedding and I'll take the ring back, thank you very much. Fair is fair.
But the whole tone of your post is wrong. Well, I need something. This costs me money.
The point is - you are supposed to make her happy. She is going to be your wife. Her needs and wants come before your needs and wants. You should be willing to sacrifice for her. If you go into the marriage with the attitude - what do I get? - you will be getting something: a divorce.
i started asking about this whole diamond engagement ring thing a while back. i was very intrigued about the current state of engagement rings. really i am. the history. the economics. and as a poster said the first company to market diamonds was debeers. they started it. in the 20's and 30's. then other companies joined in. but ithink its sad that now some women(and men) place a monetary value on love.
to me the size of the rock dont matter
its the size of the heart.
i look at my folks, who are into their 70's now and they have been so happy all their lives. they didnt have engagment rings(economics) and their wedding rings are very simple gold bands. no diamonds just some engraving on the inside (rings they never wear)
when did people start equating a flashy ring with more profound love?
and why do women nowadays expect this? my mom never expected it. a lot of older more humble women never did. in these times some really want this flashy baubble to show off. why the materialism?
i personally will get a ring, but something meaningful, simple, golden and forever.
but to each his own. if you do not like certain traditions dont follow them.
Wonderfully put. It is absolutely about the thought and love that is behind it. Not the size or the price tag.
It should be something you both like and something that you can afford and are willing to spend whatever amount you are willing to spend on it.
One thing I absolutely hate about jewelry stores during the shopping around stage of finding an engagement ring or wedding rings is when you see a ring that catches your eye and you ask how much that one is. They take it out, have you try it on, try to avoid answering the price question and when you are smiling looking at it or whatever, you again ask about the price. You find it is way above your budget and what you are willing to spend on the ring or can afford and they start saying stuff to the man like.... "oh but isn't she worth it" we can open a credit line for you, small payments of oh $200 a month for the next X amount of years".
Why do they put a price tag on the love that the man feels for the woman. It annoys me. I laughed it off the 2-3 times we heard that when we were shopping around, but was the first to say no that is too much. Even when they were like "oh you could always trade the ring up for a bigger stone or whatever later on" my response was "what I get now is what I will wear forever, there is no trading it up".
It is made into a very materialistic thing where somehow it is supposed to be the more you spend the more profound the love is. Just not true in my opinion.
Her needs and wants come before your needs and wants.
You should be willing to sacrifice for her.
I don't think that's a healthy attitude on the part of either partner and can lead to some serious feelings of inequity which will destabilize the relationship.
The basis of a stable relationship is that both partners share the same needs and wants and work as a team to realize them.
I don't think that's a healthy attitude on the part of either partner and can lead to some serious feelings of inequity which will destabilize the relationship.
The basis of a stable relationship is that both partners share the same needs and wants and work as a team to realize them.
I have to agree here.. why should one person sacrafice for another person .. especially if they are supposed to be a team? They should be working together in unison to get the same thing accomplished. If one person is constantly doing more then another person and feeling they are giving up more then the other person.. troubles loom ahead...
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