What was West Palm Beach like before gentrification (ie City Place)? (violent crime, neighborhood)

[TriMT7]

Originally Posted by JMadison

Well, let's see, In the 60's or earlier downtown WPB might have been OK, but I was born in 62, so only the vaguest memories of shopping down there. Fast forward to 1996, worked for the County Commission at 310 N. Olive.

Trust me, knocking the buildings that were there down and doing City Place may have made it look nicer, but really, what good is City Place when it's in the middle of downtown WPB? LOL!

And geez, so let's say it gets "gentrified". Don't know about the rest of you, but I don't want to pay an exorbitant price for what was once a nice place (maybe) that became a crack house and then was renovated. Just thinking about what used to be in the place, occur there, etc. precludes that for me. Do you really want your "new" master bedroom to have been the same room prostitution was occuring in or crack smoking?

You could raze it to the ground and start over, but so what? It'd still be a renovated dump. You can't un-defile something.

Perfect case study for "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure".

I'm sorry, but you have no idea what you're talking about anymore.

All of the old houses in downtown between Banyan and Okeechobee are now gone. Completely razed to the ground. Nobody lives in renovates crack houses in downtown West Palm Beach.

Move a bit South of Downtown, into the historic neighborhoods, and you will find some houses that may have been run down crack houses, but the area is completely different, on the national registry of historic places, and full of young professionals, retirees, and people interested in urban revival.

If you haven't been around these parts since 1996 or so, you really don't know what it's like anymore. We've even got a Cleveland Clinic downtown now, and a new office tower that just opened up and is now 75% full.


You CAN clean a place up. Otherwise there'd be no urban revitalization ANYWHERE, and times square in New York would have been left to the prostitutes and XXX theaters years ago. Good thing not everyone thinks like you, huh?

[JMadison]

Originally Posted by Tungsten_Udder

Not that the buildings were the same, but even if they were, I'd have no problem with that. It's not as if I'm at all against prostitution or drug use anyway.

That's fine. If you want to plunk you money down, that you traded your life for to live in a building that has that crud embedded in the walls, your choice.

But consider this... suppose they knocked down what is left of Auschwitz or Dachau and built homes there... nice gentrified ones, would you want to live in one?

I wouldn't. So same principle here, for me personally.

Heck, if they built a BMW plant there, I wouldn't buy the car either, LOL!

Just as an aside, being from the area originally, and knowing it in a better day, you'll never convince me that it hasn't gone down hill in a lot of areas, and that somehow the clock can be rolled back to a better time. All you can do is plow it under and start over for the most part. (IMHO) And if you do, there's still the people problem. You can put nice new buildings in, but you have to get work into the area that lets people live well, or it will run down all over again.

This is where I think the local Gov't got off track 30 years ago. They didn't keep the RCA's, IBMs, UTC's etc in the area. And only so many folks can be old money, or Dr's or Lawyers, etc.

Following the 87 market crash into the early 90's recession I watched many areas go down at an even faster rate than they were already declining. Probably never to really come back.

As a parallel, does anyone really believe that Detroit will ever be a "good place" ever again?

Can't say it won't. But seems unlikely.

[TriMT7]

Originally Posted by JMadison

That's fine. If you want to plunk you money down, that you traded your life for to live in a building that has that crud embedded in the walls, your choice.

But consider this... suppose they knocked down what is left of Auschwitz or Dachau and built homes there... nice gentrified ones, would you want to live in one?

I wouldn't. So same principle here, for me personally.

Heck, if they built a BMW plant there, I wouldn't buy the car either, LOL!

Oh yeah. Totally the same. Death camp or run down neighborhood.

Talk about a problem with moral equivalency!

[JMadison]

Originally Posted by TriMT7

Oh yeah. Totally the same. Death camp or run down neighborhood.

Talk about a problem with moral equivalency!

Same concept. Defiled.

Look there's no getting around it. Riviera, Lake Worth, WPB, all going ghetto, like it or not. And like other areas that go that way, the history can't be changed.

[Tungsten_Udder]

Originally Posted by JMadison

But consider this... suppose they knocked down what is left of Auschwitz or Dachau and built homes there... nice gentrified ones, would you want to live in one?

I'd prefer that those areas are left as historic sites, BUT, I'd have no principle-based problem living in a building there if they weren't left as historic sites, even though I'm not in favor of the relevant historical events that took place there, while I am in favor of allowing prostitution and drug use . . . but I don't have bizarre notions of "purity", "defilement", etc.

[TriMT7]

Originally Posted by JMadison

Same concept. Defiled.

Look there's no getting around it. Riviera, Lake Worth, WPB, all going ghetto, like it or not. And like other areas that go that way, the history can't be changed.

No. Not the same concept. Not by a long shot. I don't know why you left Palm Beach County, but crime, ghettoization, etc. was a LOT worse in the 90s than today. Luckily, there are people who have more positive attitudes working hard for West Palm Beach. Maybe you're mad because you lived in a crack house and missed the opportunity to sell it off during the boom to a nice couple that could restore it to its former glory?

Seriously, when was the last time you were in Palm Beach County for any significant amount of time? Where did you live when you DID live in West Palm Beach? You speak of Cityplace as if it's got all these old houses around it, when those have all been knocked down a long time ago.


Yesterday was the Holiday Home Tour in Flamingo Park, where hundreds of people showed up to tour restored old homes. Families with strollers and bikes out and about.

You may be a "native," but I'm a native of Northeast Jersey and I can't exactly speak for the way it is in Jersey NOW. We'll render your opinions as quaint curiosities of life in Palm Beach County circa mid 1990s. Other than that, they're pretty useless.

[Manny561]

Originally Posted by TriMT7

No. Not the same concept. Not by a long shot. I don't know why you left Palm Beach County, but crime, ghettoization, etc. was a LOT worse in the 90s than today.

thats not true. in 2006 there were 101 murders in 1994 i think there was 102. not alot worse at all. i bet 2008 prolly beats it by the end of the month. i know the murder rate tripled for lantana this year.

[TriMT7]

Originally Posted by Manny561

thats not true. in 2006 there were 101 murders in 1994 i think there was 102. not alot worse at all. i bet 2008 prolly beats it by the end of the month. i know the murder rate tripled for lantana this year.

No. It's TRUE. Violent crime was a LOT worse in the 90s in PBC than it is today. Take a look at this handy report, which looks at crime rates 15 years up until 2004:

http://www.criminologycenter.fsu.edu..._July_2005.ppt

Indeed, the crime rate in 1997 was 8,360.25 per 100,000, comapred to 5033.1 per 100,000 in 2007. TODAY, Orange County (Orlando), Duval County (Jacksonville), Putnam County (Whole lotta nothing) have higher crime rates, and ALACHUA County (Gainseville/UF) is about the same crime rate. Gainesville, btw, was recently named best city to live in the country, DESPITE the crime rate equal to PBC):

http://www.gainesville.com/apps/pbcs...RONT/705060331

http://www.fdle.state.fl.us/fsac/data_statistics.asp

And FYI, Violent crime in West Palm Beach was down 17% over last year. It's UP in some parts of PBC, such as RIviera Beach, but down in others. There are threads on this subject in this forum, but it doesn't jive with the anectdotal doomsday stuff that passes as "facts" on this board. Then again, I'm not the kind of person who takes any pleasure in scaring people for the fun of it, nor do I take how "hard" or "dangerous" my neighborhood as a source of pride, as it should be a source of shame.

"Murders" btw, are VAST MAJORITY trash killing trash, gang and drug related. The tragedy is when innocents are targeted by two-bit thugs and weirdos. (See the link above for a study on the victimization profile).

[Joe 4520832257]

Originally Posted by JMadison

Same concept. Defiled.

Look there's no getting around it. Riviera, Lake Worth, WPB, all going ghetto, like it or not. And like other areas that go that way, the history can't be changed.

So, by extension, Manhattan must still be an absolute hell-hole that's totally defiled and shunned by all decent people. Because Manhattan used to be a complete war zone 25 years ago. So obviously, there's no possible way that it is now one of the safest, most desirable urban areas in the country. There's no possible way that it's an absolute mecca for upscale and family tourism. There's no possible way that people from all walks of life consistently rave about what a great place it has become. There's no possible way that it is easily the most sought after place for highly educated young professionals. No possible way. It's defiled. Forever.

Listen, I absolutely agree that parts of WPB, Lake Worth, and Rviera are total sh*tholes. But the fact of the matter is that downtown WPB is actually pretty nice these days - and the trend is clearly upward. There's still work to be done, but development trends indicate that downtown WPB is on it's way to being an amazing, clean, safe, fun urban area. In many respects it already is.

[Tungsten_Udder]

Originally Posted by TriMT7

No. It's TRUE. Violent crime was a LOT worse in the 90s in PBC than it is today. Take a look at this handy report, which looks at crime rates 15 years up until 2004 . . .

What about the comparative "hardness" studies?