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Of course wvu gets more than Marshall. It has a lot more students and is the state's flagship institution of higher learning. Marshall is just a pork barrel project to make sure Huntington stays part of the Charleston centered political machine.
It has never been proven that north central wv is not underfunded. You keep saying it isn't but your opinion does not equal fact. The truth of the matter is they are. Wvu is not a pet project like Marshall but the state's school. Charleston, and to a lesser extent Huntington, get way more than there fair share of state funds. Morgantown gets some, but nowhere near what it deserves.
Bailey I've lived in morgantown over 20 years. The infrastructure has hardly improved, but the population has increased significantly. If Huntington or charleston were growing like Morgantown they would have gotten a beltway.
Where to begin with this. Marshall was around before WV was even a state, being charted in 1837 which was 30 years BEFORE WVU. So Marshall is not a pork barrel project and sure as heck doesn't get a lot of support from the folks in Charleston. You keep saying how much you love this state but it only seems that you want the state to be here for the benefit of your area only. Sorry , but it doesn't work that way. When you are part of a larger group, you have to share and you all from Morgantown don't seem to want to share. You want it all.
And with regards to underfunding, looking at the series of economic development grants, it was proven that the area up there got more than Huntington or Charleston. From that standpoint, it has been proven to be false. You all claimed that you get less funding from all standpoints initially and then it turned into, well we meant infrastructure. To reiterate what you just said, "you keep saying it but your opinion doesn't make it fact". Where are the links showing that you are underfunded up there?
And to shoot another hole in your conspiracy theory, Morgantown has just under 30,000 residents and you are mad because you don't have a beltway? Huntington has 20,000 more residents and doesn't have a beltway. At one time, Huntington had 85,000 residents and it still didn't get a beltway. Beltways are expensive and hard to justify. They use federal dollars typically but don't have a national benefit like interstates do. They should be funded by state or local governments but our state hardly has enough money to fund something like this. Then, if you give one city funding for that, how do you justify not giving it to a larger city? Morgantown needs to fix its own roads first because the road system there stinks. This would alleviate much of the problem because then the state roads wouldn't need to be as heavily traveled. The problem is, that would be too costly and the city can't afford it so they want the state taxpayers to cover the bill for them.
Where to begin with this. Marshall was around before WV was even a state, being charted in 1837 which was 30 years BEFORE WVU. So Marshall is not a pork barrel project and sure as heck doesn't get a lot of support from the folks in Charleston. You keep saying how much you love this state but it only seems that you want the state to be here for the benefit of your area only. Sorry , but it doesn't work that way. When you are part of a larger group, you have to share and you all from Morgantown don't seem to want to share. You want it all.
And with regards to underfunding, looking at the series of economic development grants, it was proven that the area up there got more than Huntington or Charleston. From that standpoint, it has been proven to be false. You all claimed that you get less funding from all standpoints initially and then it turned into, well we meant infrastructure. To reiterate what you just said, "you keep saying it but your opinion doesn't make it fact". Where are the links showing that you are underfunded up there?
And to shoot another hole in your conspiracy theory, Morgantown has just under 30,000 residents and you are mad because you don't have a beltway? Huntington has 20,000 more residents and doesn't have a beltway. At one time, Huntington had 85,000 residents and it still didn't get a beltway. Beltways are expensive and hard to justify. They use federal dollars typically but don't have a national benefit like interstates do. They should be funded by state or local governments but our state hardly has enough money to fund something like this. Then, if you give one city funding for that, how do you justify not giving it to a larger city? Morgantown needs to fix its own roads first because the road system there stinks. This would alleviate much of the problem because then the state roads wouldn't need to be as heavily traveled. The problem is, that would be too costly and the city can't afford it so they want the state taxpayers to cover the bill for them.
They had pork barrel projects in the 19th century.
Morgantown has over 50000 with the students. I am sorry that Charleston didn't give enough to Huntington when it was thriving, but looked what happened to it. Now it is a dying city. Just because Huntington was screwed by Charleston doesn't mean Morgantown needs to be. You should take your anger out on Charleston politicians and not Morgantown for the downfall of your once prosperous city.
Fortunately. Morgantown doesn't need Charleston like Huntington did at its prime. Even without there help we can thrive but it could ease traffic problems. The roads in north central wv are underfunded. In 20 years they have barely imptoved and we don't even get enough to repair roads. You have yet to show that ncwv is overfunded, or even receives its fair share of the funding. I agree with you that wv needs to spread funds outside of charleston, huntington, and a few select areas in south wv and central wv.
Ok, I am new to the state and even though I am from NOVA I don't know a lot about WV state/local politics. With that said could someone fill me in on why the northern part of the state has such big issues with the southern part(and vise versa)? Another thing I saw somewhere was the panhandle of WV is trying to "separate" it's self from the rest of the state, becoming part of VA? Is this correct and if so why?
The northern part shares more in common with the Rust Belt and Union (yankee) areas (think Pittsburgh), the southern part is more of the southern Appalachian vibe.
I lived in Morgantown on Grant Avenue. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a street named after a union general in the southern part (could be wrong).
Accents, politics, economics, culture and even architecture are very different between the different areas of the state. WV is the most southern Northern state, the most northern Southern state, the most eastern Western state, and the most western Eastern state. It all collides somewhere.
They had pork barrel projects in the 19th century.
Morgantown has over 50000 with the students. I am sorry that Charleston didn't give enough to Huntington when it was thriving, but looked what happened to it. Now it is a dying city. Just because Huntington was screwed by Charleston doesn't mean Morgantown needs to be. You should take your anger out on Charleston politicians and not Morgantown for the downfall of your once prosperous city.
Fortunately. Morgantown doesn't need Charleston like Huntington did at its prime. Even without there help we can thrive but it could ease traffic problems. The roads in north central wv are underfunded. In 20 years they have barely imptoved and we don't even get enough to repair roads. You have yet to show that ncwv is overfunded, or even receives its fair share of the funding. I agree with you that wv needs to spread funds outside of charleston, huntington, and a few select areas in south wv and central wv.
Also, Marshall hates WVU and WVU hates Marshall, since you just moved here, you must understand this clear distinction that also bleeds over into the opinions of their respective cities.
Huntington is a detroit gang bangers dream come true and is full of crack and ghetto people. Morgantown is really just a safe haven for stupid people from Jersey and PA who couldn't get into PSU or Rutgers. Blah Blah Blah
They had pork barrel projects in the 19th century.
Morgantown has over 50000 with the students. I am sorry that Charleston didn't give enough to Huntington when it was thriving, but looked what happened to it. Now it is a dying city. Just because Huntington was screwed by Charleston doesn't mean Morgantown needs to be. You should take your anger out on Charleston politicians and not Morgantown for the downfall of your once prosperous city.
Fortunately. Morgantown doesn't need Charleston like Huntington did at its prime. Even without there help we can thrive but it could ease traffic problems. The roads in north central wv are underfunded. In 20 years they have barely imptoved and we don't even get enough to repair roads. You have yet to show that ncwv is overfunded, or even receives its fair share of the funding. I agree with you that wv needs to spread funds outside of charleston, huntington, and a few select areas in south wv and central wv.
I'd really love to see where all these highway funds are going. I-68 from Charleston to Huntington is supposed to be a 6 lane highway the whole way through...but there simply isn't funding. Ever drive that in the mornings or evenings??? Two lanes cannot handle the traffic, but people make do somehow without sitting around and complaining about not getting enough funds. Also, in what part of the state is the only toll road located? The furthest southern portion from Charleston to Bluefield. The Mon-Fayette Expressway was proposed as a toll road because it would carry a significant portion of out of state drivers...but the area balked at that idea, instead getting funding the old fashioned way... from the good ole state. Let us not forget the downtown connector in Fairmont... yeahhhhhh, about that. Boy those roundabouts are fun!!!
Also, remember the Morgantown area (Preston and Mon Counties have a population of around 115k, + add in 30k for students which there is overlapping since some Morgantown natives are also counted as students. So that is 145k people. The Chareston area has roughly 300K people and Huntington has slightly less but still around 300K people. So in a state with 1.8 million people and over 600k people living in these two cities metro areas only 40 minutes apart, there are obviously more infrastructure needs. The argument that Charleston and Huntington are withering away is b/s and can be answered in two words. Putnam County.... The county between Kanawha and Cabell counties has grown tremendously over the years and is basically a stretch of suburbia all the way from Charleston to Huntington.
In teaching I put a lot of interest on collaborative learning. I feel students learn best working with each other... working in business now I'm part of a team. Our teams goals are to raise profits, average daily business sales, UPTS, and make our company money. When one unit isn't working collaboratively with the team... No one learns, and we cannot accomplish anything productive. Are you getting what I'm hinting at....???
and for the love... NO ONE HERE HATES MORGANTOWN... I just wish that some people didn't view it as the center of the universe and epitome of perfection.
I am sorry that Charleston didn't give enough to Huntington when it was thriving, but looked what happened to it. Now it is a dying city. Just because Huntington was screwed by Charleston doesn't mean Morgantown needs to be. You should take your anger out on Charleston politicians and not Morgantown for the downfall of your once prosperous city.
Fortunately. Morgantown doesn't need Charleston like Huntington did at its prime. Even without there help we can thrive but it could ease traffic problems. The roads in north central wv are underfunded. In 20 years they have barely imptoved and we don't even get enough to repair roads. You have yet to show that ncwv is overfunded, or even receives its fair share of the funding. I agree with you that wv needs to spread funds outside of charleston, huntington, and a few select areas in south wv and central wv.
I never said that Charleston didn't give Huntington enough, I was just merely giving you an illustration of how ridiculous your beltway demand is. And if you think Huntington is a dying city, you obviously haven't been here in a while or read any of the headlines I've posted. But like the typical Mon Countian, I think you are just wishing for it to die. Sorry to disappoint.
It's funny how you talk out of both sides of your mouth so much, even in one paragraph. You don't need Charleston but here you are crying that Charleston doesn't give you enough and doesn't pay enough attention to you. Which way is it?
And I have no anger toward any other city in this state, unlike you. I am interested in seeing my city thrive and that is where my focus is. If everyone would do the same, then our state would thrive. Unfortunately, as you have shown on here, some areas are too focused on trying to verbally degrade other areas any chance that they can. This doesn't help your area or the state as a whole.
Here are some funding numbers for the areas being discussed from everything I could find. It looks at money for road construction (State and Federal), higher education and the earlier referred to economic development grants. The road construction projects are over the next 5 years so I've taken any higher ed appropriations given to the institution from the state and included it in the total for the county it is in and estimated that over the same 5 year period. I've also added in the economic development grant totals. That money was allocated in 2004 but some of that money is only being recently used and this is another source of funding we can track. Here are the numbers by county in order of rank by total:
Monongalia County
Roads: $54,364,931
Higher Ed: 206,000,000 per year for 5 years = $1,030,000,000 (WVU)
Economic Development Grant: $32,400,000
Total: $1,116,764,931 (yes, that is billion)
Cabell County
Roads: $85,622,160
Higher Ed: $72,000,000 x5 = $360,000,000 (MU)
Economic Development Grant: $23,100,000
Total: $468,722,160
Kanawha County
Roads: $175,554,050
Higher Ed: $12,300,000 x5 = $61,500,000 (WVSU)
Economic Development Grant: $15,133,000
Total: $252,187,050
So, when looking at the most comprehensive picture of state funding I can find, it's pretty clear which area has the highest infusion of state dollars directed their way. It's pretty clear that Mon County gets something for road money and also pretty clear why they might not get as much as everyone else. Also, for those claiming that the EP gets nothing, check out the construction list for Berkley County. If anyone has any thing else that they can add with links to back it up, feel free. I'm sure this still won't be enough for some though since it won't back up their claim of being short changed by the state.
Here are the links to where the info came from:
WVDOT Statewide Transportation Improvement Program (http://www.transportation.wv.gov/highways/programplanning/STIP/stipfiles/Pages/default.aspx - broken link) (Roads- Appendix A)
I'd really love to see where all these highway funds are going. I-68 from Charleston to Huntington is supposed to be a 6 lane highway the whole way through...but there simply isn't funding. Ever drive that in the mornings or evenings??? Two lanes cannot handle the traffic, but people make do somehow without sitting around and complaining about not getting enough funds. Also, in what part of the state is the only toll road located? The furthest southern portion from Charleston to Bluefield. The Mon-Fayette Expressway was proposed as a toll road because it would carry a significant portion of out of state drivers...but the area balked at that idea, instead getting funding the old fashioned way... from the good ole state. Let us not forget the downtown connector in Fairmont... yeahhhhhh, about that. Boy those roundabouts are fun!!!
Also, remember the Morgantown area (Preston and Mon Counties have a population of around 115k, + add in 30k for students which there is overlapping since some Morgantown natives are also counted as students. So that is 145k people. The Chareston area has roughly 300K people and Huntington has slightly less but still around 300K people. So in a state with 1.8 million people and over 600k people living in these two cities metro areas only 40 minutes apart, there are obviously more infrastructure needs. The argument that Charleston and Huntington are withering away is b/s and can be answered in two words. Putnam County.... The county between Kanawha and Cabell counties has grown tremendously over the years and is basically a stretch of suburbia all the way from Charleston to Huntington.
In teaching I put a lot of interest on collaborative learning. I feel students learn best working with each other... working in business now I'm part of a team. Our teams goals are to raise profits, average daily business sales, UPTS, and make our company money. When one unit isn't working collaboratively with the team... No one learns, and we cannot accomplish anything productive. Are you getting what I'm hinting at....???
and for the love... NO ONE HERE HATES MORGANTOWN... I just wish that some people didn't view it as the center of the universe and epitome of perfection.
Not sure how you come up with those notions, but permit me to make a few corrections for you. Geographically, Kanawha County covers about the same land area as the combination of Monongalia, Marion, and Harrison counties. It also has around the same population. You will want to throw adjacent Putnam County in the mix (which is understandable) but we'll throw in adjacent Fayette County, PA ... the Mon Fayette goes right through there and it is 5 miles from Morgantown. The population of Fayette is 137,000.
Our 30,000 students, along with the 4,800 Fairmont State students, are not counted in our permanent resident population statustics so they are a consideration too as are the students at Marshall, WV State, and UC, but all of those populations are as relevant as any other. We are also 5 miles from Greene County, PA (population 40,000).
We're also much nearer an actual medium sized city in the 'Burgh than is Charleston. You are not considering that. You're counting the Huntington area's population as though it were mostly in WV and that is definitely not the case... at least as much of that area's population is located in OH and KY. I agree with you that Putnam County has experienced nice growth in recent decades. The problem with your logic, though, is that it doesn't take into consideration that for every body gained in Putnam, one was lost in Kanawha, so the growth there was matched by decline elsewhere. In terms of population, the Morgantown area has at least as many folks as does the Charleston area and it is growing. The Charleston area is stagnant at best population wise.
It would be rather rediculous for the state to have imposed a toll on the less than 5 miles of the Mon Fayette located within the state, don't you think? I mean if they charged the same per milage toll they do for the WV Turnpike they'd maybe gross 20 cents per vehicle. They figured out it wouldn't be worth the effort to build toll plazas and so forth to do it... perhaps the only intelligent decision made by state government the whole year.
There is no question that I64 (not I68, which doesn't go through Kanawha) should be expanded to 6 lanes to Huntington just as I68 should be 6 lanes from Morgantown through Bridgeport. My point is, you are using faulty logic with your data. One area is as deserving as the other of the funding. Your area has been getting a disproportionate share.
I won't argue that the Fairmont connector should have not been as high on the priority list... I agree with you on that matter, but we had Gov. Photo Op in office then and he screwed up a lot of priorities, not just that one.
A much higher priority than that should have been completing WV 2 as a 4 lane from Wheeling to Huntington, and I68 from Morgantown to Moundsville.
Also, the highest priority should be assigned to completing the state and federal numbered highways in our congested and growing city, the need for which is obvious to anyone who visits here. They are crowded 16 hours a day in summer months and 20 hours a day the rest of the year. Sometimes it is gridlock.
Rather that the real priorities though, we get this...
In West Virginia from Scott Depot to Point Pleasant, US 35 is currently being expanded to a four-lane expressway. Currently the route is four lanes from I-64 to the junction with the bridge to Buffalo, (West Virginia Route 869).
and this...
Highway Project
Three highway corridors in West Virginia were considered by the study. One, Route 119 (Corridor G), is already built, while the other two, TOLSIA and King Coal Highways and the Coalfields Expressway, are proposed. The characteristics of the three-highway corridors are described below to provide a context for the identification of the major economic development issues. The corridors are shown in Exhibit 4.
These are massive projects involve tens of millions of state dollars. We get less than 5 miles of expressway, a mile long connector, and a one block widening in Morgantown but your region gets hundreds of miles of expressways. That is what folks see as being unjust. I'm not trying to start an argument, but if you want to understand the other point of view you have to at least consider the underlying facts.
Sounds like you're doing a great job teaching. One would only wish you could teach the bozos who run our state how to make logical decisions rather than special interest group ones.
Keep up the good work... maybe something will catch on in Charleston.
Last edited by CTMountaineer; 07-23-2011 at 07:39 AM..
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