What are the issues between N. WV and S. WV? (Charleston: homes, construction jobs)

[chrisgsxt19]

Ok, I am new to the state and even though I am from NOVA I don't know a lot about WV state/local politics. With that said could someone fill me in on why the northern part of the state has such big issues with the southern part(and vise versa)? Another thing I saw somewhere was the panhandle of WV is trying to "separate" it's self from the rest of the state, becoming part of VA? Is this correct and if so why?

[cry_havoc]

Originally Posted by chrisgsxt19

Ok, I am new to the state and even though I am from NOVA I don't know a lot about WV state/local politics. With that said could someone fill me in on why the northern part of the state has such big issues with the southern part(and vise versa)? Another thing I saw somewhere was the panhandle of WV is trying to "separate" it's self from the rest of the state, becoming part of VA? Is this correct and if so why?

Ok, it has to do with WV politics. As a whole WV is not doing well. The population is shrinking, the economy declining, population is the 2nd oldest in the US after Florida, business climate terrible, lobbyist control the state etc. The population is shrinkingThe northern part of the state and the Eastern panhandle are the exceptions to this. These two areas are growing at a rapid rate, and are among the healthiest areas in the country right now.

Ok, the WV political system is ancient. In the past the richest area of the state was the South. This was around 100 years ago so economic and political power was centered there. The economic power as gradually shifted to the North and Eastern panhandle, but political power remains in the south, especially around Kanawa county which is where Charleston is.

The North feels ignored by the south. We are taxed heavily, but dont receive enough funding, while some cities like Charleston are overfunded and full of nice projects. They dont want to spend any additional money in the north or eastern panhandle. The southern part of the state has machine style politics that makes all the counties allied and keeps power there. They receive much more funding than they bring in and make sure that money that should be going to help the booming parts of WV stays in declining areas.

I am sure that people in the Eastern Panhandle to want to secede from WV they are basically ignored despite being part of the DC metro area. Some southern WV politicians have even run on the platform of selling the eastern panhandle to Virginia or Maryland so they could pay off debts accumulated in the South/Charleston.

The people of Northern WV and Eastern Panhandle want a fair distribution of funds and political power.

Finally the cultures can be a little different. Charleston is a small city, but is definitely WV in vibe. Morgantown is in WV, but at times as more in common with Pittsburgh in that it feels more metropolitan and cosmopolitan rather than West Virginian. Same thing with the Eastern Panhandle, except with DC instead of Pittsburgh. The culture is still Appalachian, but more open and advanced than the southern part of the state. Kinda like how people from rural Virginia and southern Virginia might not like NOVA, because it is different.

[slowlane3]

If the eastern panhandle ever becomes part of VA, then the Charlestown slot machines (and striptease bars) will have to shut down.

[cry_havoc]

To add some more. North Central WV, especially Mon county, and the eastern panhandle are the future of WV. Population growing there fast, while decreasing fast in the rest of the state. Same thing with the economy of the state. Some people in WV sort of resent these areas for their success, and how they are taking power away from Charleston/Huntington/Southern WV. All in all it is going to be better for the state once Morgantown and Martinsburg are calling the shots.

[chrisgsxt19]

Ok, this gives me a little bit of a better understanding. I have never been to the southern parts of WV but I would assume that it is different then the panhandle, just like NOVA is MUCH different then the rest of Virginia it's almost like being in a different state. I know a lot of people are opposed to major economic growth in the panhandle and not wanting to be like NOVA but I guess I see that as a good thing(maybe because I lived there) more jobs, businesses, needed housing etc...

[cry_havoc]

Originally Posted by chrisgsxt19

Ok, this gives me a little bit of a better understanding. I have never been to the southern parts of WV but I would assume that it is different then the panhandle, just like NOVA is MUCH different then the rest of Virginia it's almost like being in a different state. I know a lot of people are opposed to major economic growth in the panhandle and not wanting to be like NOVA but I guess I see that as a good thing(maybe because I lived there) more jobs, businesses, needed housing etc...

Depends where in the panhandle. NOVA is a good model but let's hope it. Isn't as crowded. The real center of economic activity in wv is Morgantown these days.

[tbailey1138]

Originally Posted by chrisgsxt19

Ok, I am new to the state and even though I am from NOVA I don't know a lot about WV state/local politics. With that said could someone fill me in on why the northern part of the state has such big issues with the southern part(and vise versa)? Another thing I saw somewhere was the panhandle of WV is trying to "separate" it's self from the rest of the state, becoming part of VA? Is this correct and if so why?

I think a lot of the difference comes with the fact that WV is a border state between North and South with no real association with either one. I think people from the northern part of the state tend to be more northern culturally and people from the southern part of the state tend to be more southern culturally.

This sometimes leads to the issues that we have due to the natural difference between north and south like friendliness, pace of life etc. I think it also has a little to do with the fact that in the quest to be accepted by their more northern neighbors, people in northern WV tend to shun the southern lifestyle and look down on it with indignity. This often doesn't sit well with southerners as they are usually proud of their heritage. West Virginians have always been sensitive about where we are from and have never liked it when people look down on us, especially those living right beside us so to speak.

Then blend these cultural differences with political differences and the jealousy/feeling that they have been financially shunned that many northerners have (even though in other threads this has been proven to not be the case) and you have political animosity as well. Then on top of that, you can throw in some of the animosity between WVU and Marshall as many in the southern part of the state feel that Marshall represents this part of the state. Then there is also the connection that Marshall had to many of the smaller schools throughout the southern part of the state at one time as well. To make the political differences even deeper, WVU has historically had political control of the higher education system in the state and they have used this to get what they need while stopping or attempting to stop others from having what would compete with them. That never sits well with people who support the institution trying to grow.

So the short answer is that much of the arguing and differences come from the cultural, politcial and school pride issues that exist between the two areas. It's quite the mess cooperatively and is a big part of the reason we get very little done as a state. If funding was broken down to be dispursed more on equations using population, student enrollment, etc, this would cause some anger initially but would be the much better long term solution. Then funding is proportional to all areas and all institutions and growth is rewarded while loss is not. But then, those in power would loose the ability to funnel money to friends and pet projects so this will likely never happen.

[ButtercupMcToots]

And some form of this is true in most state. NC has the Western North Carolina v the flat, more prosperous area. You can go on most of the state forums and find some version of this. Ky, Va, Ca.

[CTMountaineer]

Originally Posted by tbailey1138

I think a lot of the difference comes with the fact that WV is a border state between North and South with no real association with either one. I think people from the northern part of the state tend to be more northern culturally and people from the southern part of the state tend to be more southern culturally.

This sometimes leads to the issues that we have due to the natural difference between north and south like friendliness, pace of life etc. I think it also has a little to do with the fact that in the quest to be accepted by their more northern neighbors, people in northern WV tend to shun the southern lifestyle and look down on it with indignity. This often doesn't sit well with southerners as they are usually proud of their heritage. West Virginians have always been sensitive about where we are from and have never liked it when people look down on us, especially those living right beside us so to speak.

Then blend these cultural differences with political differences and the jealousy/feeling that they have been financially shunned that many northerners have (even though in other threads this has been proven to not be the case) and you have political animosity as well. Then on top of that, you can throw in some of the animosity between WVU and Marshall as many in the southern part of the state feel that Marshall represents this part of the state. Then there is also the connection that Marshall had to many of the smaller schools throughout the southern part of the state at one time as well. To make the political differences even deeper, WVU has historically had political control of the higher education system in the state and they have used this to get what they need while stopping or attempting to stop others from having what would compete with them. That never sits well with people who support the institution trying to grow.

So the short answer is that much of the arguing and differences come from the cultural, politcial and school pride issues that exist between the two areas. It's quite the mess cooperatively and is a big part of the reason we get very little done as a state. If funding was broken down to be dispursed more on equations using population, student enrollment, etc, this would cause some anger initially but would be the much better long term solution. Then funding is proportional to all areas and all institutions and growth is rewarded while loss is not. But then, those in power would loose the ability to funnel money to friends and pet projects so this will likely never happen.

Actually, I agree with much of what you are saying here if you take the West Virginia - Marshall part out of the equation, and the distribution effects. The universities part I believe you are writing from a Cabell/Wayne Huntington perspective, not a southern West Virginia perspective, since I think it is apparent WVU has more support in much of southern WV than does Marshall... especially in Kanawha County. But, if you are speaking about the various parts of the state I think you are much on target, except for the part about which area gets more, and it definitely has not been proven that northern West Virginia gets anywhere near as much. Also, you can't give "equal" financial support to all the state's higher education institutions. They serve different missions, have differrent characteristics, and differing cost factors involved. It costs more to educate doctoral level students than it does masters level, and more for bachelors then associates level folks. Also, some programs are much more expensive than others to provide regardless of how many butts are enrolled. You must take those into consideration, and I just know you aren't suggesting that the residents of West Virginia don't deserve to have at least one adequately financed institution that operates at the highest level in all areas, just like the neighboring states.

WVU gets more popular support in most of the state (Cabell/Wayne excluded), including the southern part, than does Marshall, but the Huntington folks have been skillful in manipulating support for Marshall by trading support for them for support for parochial projects in Kanawha. They have just enough support in Kanawha to have been able to pull that off.

I don't think it is any secret that you Huntington folks rely on Marshall as a potential source of funds to rebuild the economy there, and see butts in the seats there as being directly related to the town's prosperity. That has resulted in a create demand approach there rather than a respond to demand approach, which resulted in stepping on the toes of others, including the folks at UC in Charleston (not just WVU). There is a great deal of anomosity being generated by that fact. I'm not trying to start an argument here... just sayin'.

There are, as you pointed out, subtle cultural differences. I'm not going to say one area is advanced over the other or anything like that, and really don't see those differences as having any significant effect on the political structure in the state. After all, Huntington for example is not really different culturally than Ironton, Ohio and if you take the speaking "accent" out of it, it really isn't that much different than Morgantown. The people here (where the Don Knotts persona reigns supreme) are just as friendly as they are in Huntington, and friendlier than in my native Wheeling. I think you're putting way too much stock in that. The over riding culture in both areas is Appalachian, not northern or southern.

When I was younger, the state's largest employer was not WVU, it was Weitron Steel with 8,000 employees. Wheeling Steel had more than that number of employees, but many of them worked in Ohio plants. Weirton Steel also had the state's largest tax burden, but go to Weirton today and try to find something the state did for them. The southern politicos treated the place like a cash cow, and literally raped it financially. Wheeling faired somewhat, but not much, better. Morgantown (the city, taking The University out of the equation), has been severely short changed. Same with Martinsburg (my daughter lives there and I am there on a regular basis).

There are lingering resentments, and whether you or I am right about who has been treated better by state government is really beside the point. The bottom line is the northern and eastern areas perceive that they have been treated poorly, and perceptions will rule the day any time. One only has to look to Moundsville, for example, where hundreds of correctional employees were put out of work when they closed the prison there, and built the new one in Fayette County to get a feel for what the perceptions might be.

[GottaHerdOn]

Originally Posted by cry_havoc

Ok, it has to do with WV politics. As a whole WV is not doing well. The population is shrinking, the economy declining, population is the 2nd oldest in the US after Florida, business climate terrible, lobbyist control the state etc. The population is shrinkingThe northern part of the state and the Eastern panhandle are the exceptions to this. These two areas are growing at a rapid rate, and are among the healthiest areas in the country right now.

Ok, the WV political system is ancient. In the past the richest area of the state was the South. This was around 100 years ago so economic and political power was centered there. The economic power as gradually shifted to the North and Eastern panhandle, but political power remains in the south, especially around Kanawa county which is where Charleston is.

The North feels ignored by the south. We are taxed heavily, but dont receive enough funding, while some cities like Charleston are overfunded and full of nice projects. They dont want to spend any additional money in the north or eastern panhandle. The southern part of the state has machine style politics that makes all the counties allied and keeps power there. They receive much more funding than they bring in and make sure that money that should be going to help the booming parts of WV stays in declining areas.

I am sure that people in the Eastern Panhandle to want to secede from WV they are basically ignored despite being part of the DC metro area. Some southern WV politicians have even run on the platform of selling the eastern panhandle to Virginia or Maryland so they could pay off debts accumulated in the South/Charleston.

The people of Northern WV and Eastern Panhandle want a fair distribution of funds and political power.

Finally the cultures can be a little different. Charleston is a small city, but is definitely WV in vibe. Morgantown is in WV, but at times as more in common with Pittsburgh in that it feels more metropolitan and cosmopolitan rather than West Virginian. Same thing with the Eastern Panhandle, except with DC instead of Pittsburgh. The culture is still Appalachian, but more open and advanced than the southern part of the state. Kinda like how people from rural Virginia and southern Virginia might not like NOVA, because it is different.

Just wanted to clarify a few of the points this user made here... For those of you who do not know.

1. The state population is not shrinking but for the past two censuses it has been growing, albeit slowly. It would be worth mentioning that we do have one of the fastest growing per-capita incomes though.

2. No where in WV is growing rapidly. Berkelely and Jefferson come close but there counties are not throwing up 200 homes every few weeks like areas of AZ, NV, NC, GA, and FL before the housing bust. They are both in the top 100 fastest growing counties in the USA but rank in the 80's. Berkeley having grown around 35% I believe between 2000 - 2010. In my opinion they are growing very comfortably, to keep pace with a growing economy, populace, educational needs, etc.

3. The user is failing to mention the fact that the state recently gave millions in assistance to help construct a Macys warehouse in Berkeley County in the EP that will create 1,200 permanent, 700 seasonal, + tertiary jobs created in the area, in addition to construction jobs. Also the Mon-Fayette Expressway just opened off Cheat Lake near Morgantown, funded by the state and federal govt. Lets not forget about the Highlands in Wheeling which was funded by the state as well. Funding was also given to Rue 21 to expand a distribution facility in Wheeling to help create and secure jobs.

4. No where in WV is heavily taxed... anywhere.. It could be said the state nickle and dimes you to death, with taxing random little things here and there.. But property taxes paid to the state are very low. Heavily taxed places like New Jersey where your property taxes can be 5k alone. We're only paying 1k a year and that is with our cars. Also... no taxes, no services or govt. If a particular area believes they need more money they can always do what Charleston and Huntington have done... and which Fairmont is considering... Instituting a user fee. Huntington added a 2.00 per paycheck tax to those working in the city to help pay for retirement funds, and pave streets. So perhaps other cities should consider that... that way instead of the entire state paying, the residents actually using the services provided pay.

5. No where in WV is cosmopolitan... unless you're on the lawn at the Greenbrier. Which is half the casual charm of WV. To allude that Morgantown is more cosmopolitan, and has more in common with Pittsburgh is simply redic. Morgantown is over an hour from Pittsburgh... not too far for better shopping and concerts, but the small ring of cosmopolitan characteristics that Pittsburgh has does not reach Morgantown. Same with Martinsburg and DC... That is why people are moving there, to escape DC, not continue to live in DC society.

and no politician is crazy enough to even suggest selling part of our state to another state, they hopefully realize the constitutional issues with that and that this is 2011 not 1863.