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This is stupid. There's nothing even remotely southern about the areas adjacent to Pennsylvania. From Weston and Elkins north, you're in the north. From Summersville south, you're in the South.
This is stupid. There's nothing even remotely southern about the areas adjacent to Pennsylvania. From Weston and Elkins north, you're in the north. From Summersville south, you're in the South.
Honestly parts of PA seem southern to me, if you ever want to take a nice road trip to Greene or Fayette county to see pickups with confederate flags on it just seems different from the area north of I70. Honestly it isn't to the extent of places such as the foothills of Tennessee but still I would really be hesitant to consider places such as Waynesburg or Uniontown part of the northeast
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
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Quote:
Originally Posted by escilade18
Honestly parts of PA seem southern to me, if you ever want to take a nice road trip to Greene or Fayette county to see pickups with confederate flags on it just seems different from the area north of I70. Honestly it isn't to the extent of places such as the foothills of Tennessee but still I would really be hesitant to consider places such as Waynesburg or Uniontown part of the northeast
But you can find pickups with confederate flags in New York and Vermont too.
Trust me, PA is all northern. It's just like much of the rural Appalachian northeast. Especially similar to upstate NY.
I'm a resident of Greene County, but grew up in southeast Texas. Greene and Fayette Counties are Appalachian, rural, somewhat remote, and arguably provincial, but they're not southern--not geographically (obviously), and not really in character.
I've lived here for half a dozen years, so I'm still an outsider. But my take is that this area has much in common with a corridor from around Buffalo down to Charleston, anchored, of course, by Pittsburgh. I don't see widespread sympathy for what I consider stereotypical southern values (but that's probably a whole other discussion), nor do I see a lot of congruence with Philly or NY.
There are clear distinctions between Southern culture and Appalachian culture. I don't think we really fit in with the South, nor do we fit in with North. A large reason we broke off from Virginia were problems stemming from cultural differences.
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
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Originally Posted by thrownfree
I'm a resident of Greene County, but grew up in southeast Texas. Greene and Fayette Counties are Appalachian, rural, somewhat remote, and arguably provincial, but they're not southern--not geographically (obviously), and not really in character.
I've lived here for half a dozen years, so I'm still an outsider. But my take is that this area has much in common with a corridor from around Buffalo down to Charleston, anchored, of course, by Pittsburgh. I don't see widespread sympathy for what I consider stereotypical southern values (but that's probably a whole other discussion), nor do I see a lot of congruence with Philly or NY.
Only change I'd make is instead of Buffalo, it's more like from the Catskills down/west (the culture and geography sweeps eastward).
I'm a resident of Greene County, but grew up in southeast Texas. Greene and Fayette Counties are Appalachian, rural, somewhat remote, and arguably provincial, but they're not southern--not geographically (obviously), and not really in character.
I've lived here for half a dozen years, so I'm still an outsider. But my take is that this area has much in common with a corridor from around Buffalo down to Charleston, anchored, of course, by Pittsburgh. I don't see widespread sympathy for what I consider stereotypical southern values (but that's probably a whole other discussion), nor do I see a lot of congruence with Philly or NY.
That does make some sense, maybe a better way to put it would be the start of a transition to the south begins south of I70 with it going in grades. I just notice a large difference in culture between say Morgantown WV and Pittsburgh which one would not think for cities only 75 miles apart (approximate guesstimate from the trips I have made there before.) Although you are right, places like Carmichaels and Masontown would be different than rural Alabama but I am also willing to argue a bit more southern than say rural Allegheny or northern Washington county. I am the first to admit I don't know everything which is why I post on these forums, great way to have people constructively critique your ideas so one day I can come closer to knowing more about certain aspects of life
Only change I'd make is instead of Buffalo, it's more like from the Catskills down/west (the culture and geography sweeps eastward).
But great post.
Very good point. I'm less familiar with New York State, but I can see how Erie and Buffalo might share more kinship with Cleveland than the I-79 corridor.
That does make some sense, maybe a better way to put it would be the start of a transition to the south begins south of I70 with it going in grades. I just notice a large difference in culture between say Morgantown WV and Pittsburgh which one would not think for cities only 75 miles apart (approximate guesstimate from the trips I have made there before.) Although you are right, places like Carmichaels and Masontown would be different than rural Alabama but I am also willing to argue a bit more southern than say rural Allegheny or northern Washington county. I am the first to admit I don't know everything which is why I post on these forums, great way to have people constructively critique your ideas so one day I can come closer to knowing more about certain aspects of life
Well, I guess I'm not sure about the gradations of south idea--partly because I'm not clear on what "southern" means in this instance--but I'm happy to admit local and regional distinctions (based on historical industries, ethnicity or country of origin, religion, etc.). Even Allegheny County's once-reliance on steel probably sets it apart from Greene's coal (and now shale) production. And of course, relative distance from urban development plays a role, not just in this area, but in every region. It's just a fact that, typically, rural areas far from large cities can seem more provincial than rural areas near suburbs or urban centers--I'm thinking here of your note about rural Allegheny versus Carmichaels or Masontown.
I will say this: While not true of every long-time resident of rural Greene County, many people in this area are racists, at least in their talk. This may contribute to a "southern" perception. As a teacher, I've had numerous students tell me their father would disown them if they dated an African-American peer. Of course, the county is 99.9% white, according to Wikipedia's census record, and no doubt that contributes to benighted attitudes. But I don't think racism is distinctly southern, either, though many educated northerners seem to think so. My parents live in southeast Texas, in a town of 3,000 that's about 1/3 white, 1/3 black, and 1/3 Hispanic. While there are, of course, race issues, there's also been much confrontation--by necessity--of pure bigotry that has led to the kind of understanding of difference I can only dream about for this area.
I've probably stirred the pot more than I intended ... but, as you said, the forum is a good place to sound out ideas.
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
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Originally Posted by thrownfree
Very good point. I'm less familiar with New York State, but I can see how Erie and Buffalo might share more kinship with Cleveland than the I-79 corridor.
Yes. That and they are also geographically outside the Appalachian foot hills. In an area I refer to as the Ontario plains.
Now the southern tier of NY and areas around it (like Yates county for example) are still very Appalachian in appearance and largely in the north/central Appalachian culture. And very, very much like rural PA.
And not just for reasons like poverty and decaying towns or summat; the general culture is laid back, very rural, and very private. Many back hills survivors in that state. You just don't hear about them in the news.
But yeah, the Catskill mountains would be the best marker for furthest north-east influence of more traditional Appalachian cultures. Particularly the north/central variety.
To connect this back with the topic, I do know a West Virginian couple from Elkins living in Appalachian NY right now (I believe in Beaver Dams). And they are great folks. They feel right at home up there (with the exception of harsher winters), so it can't be too extremely different, culturally, from northern WV.
I have a friend currently living in Maryland, he grew up in West Virginia, I forget what town but it was in the eastern Panhandle. He's been to PA and upstate NY a lot, has some family there in the twin tiers. He sees little difference in culture from where he grew up to southern NY.
Northern WV makes more sense in my mind being regionally associated with the north.
Now, to break any theories that I am picking and choosing only positive stories, I do know of a tale where some West Virginians moved to somewhere between Seneca and Cayuga lakes in NY. They said all the people were really rude and moved back out. Sadly that can happen. I believe that story came from JimmyJohnWilson. But chances are they just met bad people, which can happen anywhere.
Enough outta me.
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