U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > West Virginia
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 02-19-2012, 09:39 PM
 
9,406 posts, read 11,471,164 times
Reputation: 1507

Advertisements

Right, but at the same time it makes little sense for us to disrupt our pristine farmlands simply to help Canada and China. There is little in it for us.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-20-2012, 05:09 AM
 
4,714 posts, read 11,718,462 times
Reputation: 1049
The plains indians were agast when we built the Union-Pacific Railroad.
Spelled the end to their migrations and the buffalo.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-20-2012, 10:13 AM
 
Location: Inwood
552 posts, read 610,136 times
Reputation: 253
I am more for gas then oil or coal but I'd like to see more wind and better incentives for solar for individual homes in my opinion it's going to run out eventually.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-20-2012, 10:19 AM
 
141 posts, read 274,942 times
Reputation: 138
If more jobs, increased tax revenue, and cheaper energy costs are bad... then yeah, I guess it is bad.

Solar is dumb because it takes more energy to produce the panels then they can output. Wind is a better alternative, but it kills lots of birds-- and I find the wind farms very ugly. Plus they are loud, and extremely dangerous to transport and set up.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-20-2012, 10:35 AM
 
Location: Huntington, WV
4,153 posts, read 6,858,332 times
Reputation: 768
Quote:
Originally Posted by J152cc2 View Post
If more jobs, increased tax revenue, and cheaper energy costs are bad... then yeah, I guess it is bad.
If you take time to read the articles listed at the beginning of the thread, you'll see that this just isn't the case with the exception of decreased energy costs. The decreased cost of the gas in turn decreases the amount of tax that the state brings in on gas because it is at least partly based on the price. Then when you consider the overlap that gas has with coal and how gas is attempting to replace some of the uses of coal, that means lost coal jobs and lost tax revenue for coal.

See, this is the conundrum with natural gas and WV. We already have an energy source (coal) that is in direct competition with natural gas in some sectors. If gas wins out, you are replacing coal with something that is cheaper but it generates less in terms of taxes and requires fewer jobs as well.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-20-2012, 10:37 AM
 
Location: Inwood
552 posts, read 610,136 times
Reputation: 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by J152cc2 View Post
If more jobs, increased tax revenue, and cheaper energy costs are bad... then yeah, I guess it is bad.

Solar is dumb because it takes more energy to produce the panels then they can output. Wind is a better alternative, but it kills lots of birds-- and I find the wind farms very ugly. Plus they are loud, and extremely dangerous to transport and set up.
I find it funny that you say sarcastically that this produces more jobs, tax revenue yada yada...Lets look at the facts now, while this may produce jobs then why is WV doing so poorly in these areas, why isn't southern WV the richest part of the state? Why is the eastern panhandle, morgantown, etc doing so well with no mining? Solar is not dumb quit believing everything you hear, it's viable with some investment. Coal companies rape the state, always have and always will. Think outside the box a little, check out tesla motors and tell me that we have to be slaves to big energy. Inovation is what we need.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-20-2012, 11:09 AM
 
141 posts, read 274,942 times
Reputation: 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbailey1138 View Post
See, this is the conundrum with natural gas and WV. We already have an energy source (coal) that is in direct competition with natural gas in some sectors. If gas wins out, you are replacing coal with something that is cheaper but it generates less in terms of taxes and requires fewer jobs as well.
That's not true. NG will certainly make more jobs than coal. Coal is a dirty fuel and needs to be replaced with a cleaner fuel.

A lot of what you posted is propaganda put out by Big Coal.

Coal fired power plants are going to start going away, even the EPA, US-Energy Administration, and EIA agree. If West Virginia wants to continue having jobs in the energy industry, we really need to start producing natural gas.

Last edited by J152cc2; 02-20-2012 at 11:31 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-20-2012, 11:12 AM
 
141 posts, read 274,942 times
Reputation: 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by boycewv View Post
I find it funny that you say sarcastically that this produces more jobs, tax revenue yada yada...Lets look at the facts now, while this may produce jobs then why is WV doing so poorly in these areas, why isn't southern WV the richest part of the state? Why is the eastern panhandle, morgantown, etc doing so well with no mining? Solar is not dumb quit believing everything you hear, it's viable with some investment. Coal companies rape the state, always have and always will. Think outside the box a little, check out tesla motors and tell me that we have to be slaves to big energy. Inovation is what we need.
Where are you going to get the land mass necessary to support a giant solar farm?
Look at the huge capital costs needed... Solar may be viable one day... but it is a LOOOOOOOOOOONG way from even being close...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-20-2012, 02:45 PM
 
Location: Huntington, WV
4,153 posts, read 6,858,332 times
Reputation: 768
Quote:
Originally Posted by J152cc2 View Post
A lot of what you posted is propaganda put out by Big Coal.
A lot of what you posted could be deemed as propaganda for natural gas. It's easier to just say that though than to look at the figures and debate based on the actual numbers. My conclusions are my own, not those of the coal industry or the gas industry.

The numbers show that severence taxes from natural gas are MUCH less than those of coal. Also, since they have increased the drilling of NG wells, the price has come way down, to the point where they have capped some wells and halted drilling those that they had planned. This is good for the consumer but bad for the tax collections. Plus, once a well is drilled, there aren't too many jobs involved with NG. Coal continually has to be mined and you need people to do that. I'm no proponent of coal as I think our state needs an economy in place to replace it. I don't think replacing coal with another finite fossil fuel is the answer though.

Having something that takes coal out quicker than planned with it's replacement needing not as many jobs nor producing as much tax revenue will hurt.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-20-2012, 02:47 PM
 
9,406 posts, read 11,471,164 times
Reputation: 1507
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbailey1138 View Post
If you take time to read the articles listed at the beginning of the thread, you'll see that this just isn't the case with the exception of decreased energy costs. The decreased cost of the gas in turn decreases the amount of tax that the state brings in on gas because it is at least partly based on the price. Then when you consider the overlap that gas has with coal and how gas is attempting to replace some of the uses of coal, that means lost coal jobs and lost tax revenue for coal.

See, this is the conundrum with natural gas and WV. We already have an energy source (coal) that is in direct competition with natural gas in some sectors. If gas wins out, you are replacing coal with something that is cheaper but it generates less in terms of taxes and requires fewer jobs as well.
Tim, that would be true if you're only looking at this thing from the myopic perspective of # of coal miners employed vs. number of drill pad workers. Coal wins out handily in that case. But it isn't nearly that simple. The spin off jobs in plastics, propane and other products of wet natural gas will easily replace the percentage of jobs lost among the 15,000 coal miners we still have working in the state (down from 150,000 a few decades ago). You see, the coal industry is morphing too and is much less labor intensive. No place is that the case any more than in southern WV where they are using mountaintop removal to permanently destroy the landscape and in the process using mega equipment that utilizes very little labor.

We need a balanced approach that properly respects underground mining while encouraging natural gas development. But, if you read my earlier post you know my position... the big money guys don't really care one way or the other. They will use both energy sources to manipulate prices and cost factors, and they are happy to see folks like us arguing about it. It detracts attention from what is really happening. Either way, the Rockefellers and their Brooklyn partners will sing all the way to the bank that they have fleeced, and we have bailed out more than once.

And, while natural gas doesn't pay as much in the way of severance tax, the industrial developments associated with it will pay far more property taxes than are currently being taken. But, don't worry... the energy moguls are so powerful in our state that they will make sure that coal is mined too. They're going to make a buck from all the energy they take from us while giving little in return. Our entire political structure here is set up to guarantee that, and party is not an issue. They own both parties.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:




Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > West Virginia
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top