Gay Rights in West Virginia (Hinton: live, best, teacher)

[Hinton Bound]

Originally Posted by harborlady

Millers this is what I was pointing at- the absence of logic. Blatant contradictions staring him in the face and his mind won't allow him to see any of it. A grown man is coming back with nanny nanny boo boo equivalent as an adult response. Knee jerk reaction is attack anyone who holds up empirical facts. R-complex can't be articulated is my theory because nothing else makes any sense at all. Where is the threat? They can't name it but they come out swinging like pavlov rang a bell every time.

Interesting that you, Millersangel and mountaineer all feel that Millers post on HIV is FACT. "Empirical facts" you say? Laughable. I can post "empirical" fact that the earth is flat. Does that make it so? We can form committees, and pass legislation that says dogs have three legs. If we post it here, does that make it so? You may want to familiarize yourself with the entire EMPIRICAL CYCLE before you assume that cut-and-pasted information on a public site must be true. Don't assume historical re-writes for PC concerns changes the truth.

"nanny nanny boo boo"? Really, that's pathetically weak. Almost on par with GHO and his name calling. He's an "educator", I expect little of him. You, I expected better.

Where is the threat?
1) The threat is to my children, therefore to me. Schools integrating "alternative lifestyle" discussions and displays to kids? Encouraging cross-dressing? How about books for 4 year olds on homosexuality, bi-sexuality, and transgenderism. I send my kids to school learn reading, writing, and arithmetic. The schools and its teachers are at the bottom of the attainment barrel. They are failing America. So instead of focusing on what's important, they choose to feed the kids homosexuality and alternative lifestyle discussions? Not me. Google "alternative lifestyle in elementary school" for references.
2) Anti-gay "hate crimes" violate the US Constitution. Bill of Rights, 1st Ammendent specifically. Hate crimes bifurcate criminal acts into the act and the underlying belief. Beliefs are nothing more than unarticulated thoughts. The free expression of thoughts are protected under the 1st Amdt. Different legal treatment of beliefs, not actions, is a clear violation.

[Hinton Bound]

Originally Posted by GottaHerdOn

Strange according to all the government and state crime statistics I've seen they all say heterosexual men are the largest percent of child molesters.

Perhaps you didn't follow the link I provided... you know, the one with those pesky facts and figures. But alas, you don't really want to know, do you?

[GottaHerdOn]

oh.. gee thanks Hinton.. I've have now learned that all gays are child molesters and its our fault America is in decline. We also killed the dinosaurs. Well I'm straight now, gee thank you so much for showing me the way through your infinite wisdom. Calling teachers names now are we? I think you should just home school your children. That way you can teach them seclusion, bigotry and hate. Areas modern schools are lacking in.

Better yet, how about you pack up and move to some 3rd world country where your views are still popular and current.

[Hinton Bound]

Originally Posted by GottaHerdOn

oh.. gee thanks Hinton.. I've have now learned that all gays are child molesters and its our fault America is in decline. We also killed the dinosaurs. Well I'm straight now, gee thank you so much for showing me the way through your infinite wisdom. Calling teachers names now are we? I think you should just home school your children. That way you can teach them seclusion, bigotry and hate. Areas modern schools are lacking in.
Better yet, how about you pack up and move to some 3rd world country where your views are still popular and current.

Hmmm, re-read my post; didn't see any place where there was name calling on my part...? Perhaps you can point it out for me? Or were you thinking of your post? You may not have noticed, but 1/3 does not constitute ALL (3/3). I know, you were trying to be dramatic. I never said gays were responsible for the decline of America, I said teachers.

Reading comprehension isn't your strong point, eh?

Sounds as if it is you who is the bigot. You are familiar with the definition aren't you? You've done nothing to answer my questions, or refute my arguments. Just name calling and superfluous garbage. Could it be that you can't rationally defend your position?

I'll make it really simple. Just answer these questions:
1) Do you feel entitled to special consideration based on your sexuality?
2) As 98% of the population is straight, do think it is justifiable to teach/encourage your lifestyle to children in public schools? (99.9% straight)
3) Do you think our public education system will be better served by focusing any spare time on the three R-s, or gay and lesbian lifestyles?
4) Do you think gays should be included in quota based hiring/admissions?
5) As a whole, do "education" majors score near the top, or near the bottom on SAT/ACT's for seniors entering college?

[corgis]

Would you two please take your anger somewhere else? I feel offended by both of you and I'm just an old lady trying to help people learn about West Virginia. I am offended by the teacher statements, my son is a very popular high school band director in WV and I'm offended by both of you slinging verbal potshots at each other, it's getting ugly in here now and it needs to stop!!

[ABCDom]

Hinton: Unfortunately, I have to "spread the reputation around" before rating any more of your posts positively.

[Hinton Bound]

Originally Posted by corgis

Would you two please take your anger somewhere else? I feel offended by both of you and I'm just an old lady trying to help people learn about West Virginia. I am offended by the teacher statements, my son is a very popular high school band director in WV and I'm offended by both of you slinging verbal potshots at each other, it's getting ugly in here now and it needs to stop!!

This is a public forum, a place where we are free to debate issues (Gay rights in WV in this case). If you don't care to read the thread, then don't. You are the one that comes here and reads it, we're not sending it to you, or forcing it upon you in any way.

Herd feels strongly about his position, as do I. We'll drag out the ugly issues, and examine them. If you don't like,it, stop looking.

You not liking my teacher comments does nothing to change the truth of that matter.

ABCdom- Thanks for the plug. I'm not one to shy away from a fight. FWIW, Herd has stood his ground and fights as well. If nothing else, he'll sharpen his critical thinking skills and be better for it.

[harborlady]

Originally Posted by Hinton Bound

Interesting that you, Millersangel and mountaineer all feel that Millers post on HIV is FACT. "Empirical facts" you say? Laughable. I can post "empirical" fact that the earth is flat. Does that make it so? We can form committees, and pass legislation that says dogs have three legs. If we post it here, does that make it so? You may want to familiarize yourself with the entire EMPIRICAL CYCLE before you assume that cut-and-pasted information on a public site must be true. Don't assume historical re-writes for PC concerns changes the truth.

"nanny nanny boo boo"? Really, that's pathetically weak. Almost on par with GHO and his name calling. He's an "educator", I expect little of him. You, I expected better.

Where is the threat?
1) The threat is to my children, therefore to me. Schools integrating "alternative lifestyle" discussions and displays to kids? Encouraging cross-dressing? How about books for 4 year olds on homosexuality, bi-sexuality, and transgenderism. I send my kids to school learn reading, writing, and arithmetic. The schools and its teachers are at the bottom of the attainment barrel. They are failing America. So instead of focusing on what's important, they choose to feed the kids homosexuality and alternative lifestyle discussions? Not me. Google "alternative lifestyle in elementary school" for references.
2) Anti-gay "hate crimes" violate the US Constitution. Bill of Rights, 1st Ammendent specifically. Hate crimes bifurcate criminal acts into the act and the underlying belief. Beliefs are nothing more than unarticulated thoughts. The free expression of thoughts are protected under the 1st Amdt. Different legal treatment of beliefs, not actions, is a clear violation.

Your own hostility and irrational arguments give you away, Mark. Sorry to see you disgrace yourself with nanny nanny boo boo, but you have, and continue to do so.

Try to recall that up to a few months ago you loved my ideas, but the moment we disagree, this is how you act. Maybe about now you're realizing I'm unwilling to be swayed by offerings of either? Winning popularity contests or telling people what I think they want to hear isn't what I'm about, and I have no use for any of it when offered by anyone.

You speak with contempt for everyone in this thread who fails to validate your 'feelings'. You failed to provide any factual basis for anything you're concerned about and topped it all off by running contrary to the libertarian philosophy you claim to be core in your life. No Sir, this isn't me imposing my way on you, but holding you to the standard you claim to follow (which you factually aren't). Your own words espouse the belief that gays ought to be handled separately and apart by writ, it's underlying all of your arguments, and that hypocricy didn't go unnoticed. That makes you uncomfortable? It should. Your words and deeds are not the same, but that's not Millers or GHO's fault. It's all about you.

Bottom line is life liberty and the pursuit of happiness, so long as it doesn't infringe upon anyone elses life liberty etc. You're unwilling to see that equality and inalienable rights have yet to be realized in America every moment you cling to legislation that permits unequal treatment of anyone. We swore upon the constitution to defend it's citizens, not just heteros, politicians, religious, or any specific sub group. ALL, not some or a favored few.

Talk in circles all you want, but don't expect the patience of your audience squandered will last forever. Every desperate pot shot you take betrays your character. Your own behavior & attitudes continue to emphasize my point.

Any onlookers, please know that hinton and I are transplants to WV from NY. We don't represent anything except the blunt way NY'rs argue and ongoing philosophical debates in the nation, which WV is a part of, but we don't represent WV. By and large disagreements are not confrontational, and the polite custom of WV is to excuse yourself from nonsense/ hostility and simply go live your life as you see fit.

[corgis]

Beautiful post harborlady!

[Hinton Bound]

Originally Posted by harborlady

Your own hostility and irrational arguments give you away, Mark. Sorry to see you disgrace yourself with nanny nanny boo boo, but you have, and continue to do so.

You'll have to show what this "nanny boo boo" is, I don't get it. Cut and paste my comments that fit that.

Originally Posted by harborlady

Try to recall that up to a few months ago you loved my ideas, but the moment we disagree, this is how you act. Maybe about now you're realizing I'm unwilling to be swayed by offerings of either? Winning popularity contests or telling people what I think they want to hear isn't what I'm about, and I have no use for any of it when offered by anyone..

I loved most of your ideas. I think you were pulling for Hillary... I certainly didn't love that idea.

I expect some substance from your argument, not just lenghty, flowery rhetoric. I couldn't care less if you agree with me, but if you choose to debate, at least be substantive. I've posted links, facts, and OPED opinions to back up my stance. You've done nothing but snipe from the bushes. Stand and fight, or stay out of it.

Originally Posted by harborlady

You speak with contempt for everyone in this thread who fails to validate your 'feelings'. You failed to provide any factual basis for anything you're concerned about and topped it all off by running contrary to the libertarian philosophy you claim to be core in your life. No Sir, this isn't me imposing my way on you, but holding you to the standard you claim to follow (which you factually aren't). Your own words espouse the belief that gays ought to be handled separately and apart by writ, it's underlying all of your arguments, and that hypocricy didn't go unnoticed. That makes you uncomfortable? It should. Your words and deeds are not the same, but that's not Millers or GHO's fault. It's all about you.

You need to re-read my posts. I stated quite clearly that I don't have any problem with people being free to do as they please- SO LONG AS IT DOES NOT AFFECT ME. I've detailed what exactly I see that affects me. Did you read that? Forcing their lifestyle onto my children directly affects ME. I don't need Ivans bell to invite me.

Originally Posted by harborlady

Bottom line is life liberty and the pursuit of happiness, so long as it doesn't infringe upon anyone elses life liberty etc. You're unwilling to see that equality and inalienable rights have yet to be realized in America every moment you cling to legislation that permits unequal treatment of anyone. We swore upon the constitution to defend it's citizens, not just heteros, politicians, religious, or any specific sub group. ALL, not some or a favored few.

Great, you grasp the concept. Show me how we are not all granted equal opportunity in America. And for the record, equal opportunity does not mean equal outcome. The fact that there are poor people is not for lack of equal opportunity. We all had access to the same free, public education. Some made bad choices. Some did not. There are winners in life, and there are losers. Don't expect my tears or money because an unemployed mother of 6 has another 8 that she can't feed.

Where is the legislation I "cling" to that permits unequal treatment??? I beg of you to point me to that.

Originally Posted by harborlady

Talk in circles all you want, but don't expect the patience of your audience squandered will last forever. Every desperate pot shot you take betrays your character. Your own behavior & attitudes continue to emphasize my point. .

Emphasize you point; what point? You banter about with pretty prose, but say nothing- you make no point. What are you FOR, what are you AGAINST? The mouth breathers may be lulled by your Thesaurus work, but I am not.

Originally Posted by harborlady

Any onlookers, please know that hinton and I are transplants to WV from NY. We don't represent anything except the blunt way NY'rs argue and ongoing philosophical debates in the nation, which WV is a part of, but we don't represent WV. By and large disagreements are not confrontational, and the polite custom of WV is to excuse yourself from nonsense/ hostility and simply go live your life as you see fit.

I don't care if it's WV, NY, or BFE. My opinions stay the same. If someone lays it out for public consumption, expect me to challenge it if I feel the need. There is no hatred from me. I would sit with anyone here and enjoy a coffee and conversation.

I find it a sad state of affairs that people get offended by words someone writes in a public internet forum. Funny how "offended" Corgis was, but she returned to view it again. Pathetic. Don't voluntarily come to a site, then whine over what you see.

I doesn't matter where we're from. Anyone who lacks the fortitude to stand and fight for what they believe is right, is a coward. I have no respect for them. None.
It is far better to fight and lose, than not to fight at all.