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Old 05-28-2009, 11:04 AM
 
Location: USA
396 posts, read 811,058 times
Reputation: 124

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Gottaherdon,
yes, it's a controversy in me. i support gay rights totally, I assist gay people a lot and support they civil legal fights against discrimination. (no, i am not a lawer).And they won. I feel happy I played small part in it. I have empathy and sympathy ,for gays. Maybe you'll convince me about jews/Blacks/Gays comparison someday
But the same time I believe it is biological abnormalty and this abnormality doesn't bring more happiness to gay people. Love has many faces and in many those faces are not approved by conventional morale. examples- true love for two partners simultaneously, homosexual love etc. So, based on this I am enthusiastic supporter of gays. But from biological and traditional standpoint I am sceptical about "marriage". In addition, you stressed the TAX issue- and this is what makes me sad because it looks like it is not about real gay rights, love and equality , it is just about relatively small tax break.
Why u are so focused on the word 'marriage'? You sound like your enthusiastic enemies, no differences.
Why the statement "one man-one woman" is offensive?
What if you get a right to have civil unions with tax breaks? Will you continue to insist on the word "marriage"?
I believe, and I will repeat it as much as needed, that majority of Americans respect gay rights but don't want to be involved and don't want to know about it. Don't ask don't tell. it is like :I'm not telling you I prefer particular style with my wife/girlfriend/stranger and you don't tell me how u like it, when and what partner.
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Old 05-28-2009, 12:49 PM
 
Location: USA
1,895 posts, read 4,046,420 times
Reputation: 1990
Quote:
Originally Posted by xGrendelx View Post
If so, then why are gays discriminated against? To tolerate something is to allow it's existence and PRACTICE without banishment. Many posts on this one forum alone show that isn't happening.



Except get married.



No, no one is physically attacking HIM or shooting HIM, but don't pretend that that sort of thing doesn't happen to homosexuals. Here's a case actually from West Virginia, just happened 2 weeks ago:

Gay Man Attacked & Beaten - WTRF-TV - WTRF.com (http://www.wtrf.com/story.cfm?func=viewstory&storyid=59087 - broken link)
I don't think gays ARE discriminated against. You have to practically be gay, to even be in the entertainment industry. Most gay people are very popular.
You said you cannot get married; but you said your lives ARE the same, as if you WERE married;
so obviously, this "discrimination" you speak of isn't impacting your life in any serious manner, else
you would not be able to conduct your life so freely and without restriction.
I'm not pretending anything. I'm sure some random people probably get jumped because they are
gay, but I think that is very rare.
People get beat up for many different reasons.
Some people will bash you in the face because you looked at them the wrong way.
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Old 05-28-2009, 01:39 PM
 
1,653 posts, read 5,016,089 times
Reputation: 1423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundance View Post
I don't think gays ARE discriminated against. You have to practically be gay, to even be in the entertainment industry. Most gay people are very popular.
How does the fact that gays are in the entertainment industry equate to them being treated fairly (I'm missing the connection)? Can you cite where you got this information please? I didn't know "pracitaclly gay" was a requirement for the industry, and I didn't most gay people were popular either. And even if they were popular, you use the term as if it means "liked" too, and that's not the case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundance View Post
You said you cannot get married; but you said your lives ARE the same, as if you WERE married;
so obviously, this "discrimination" you speak of isn't impacting your life in any serious manner, else
you would not be able to conduct your life so freely and without restriction..
I did not say I could not get married or that my life is the same in spite of that. I believe you're quoting the wrong poster here. What I am saying is that a gay couple can do that which a straight couple does aside from getting married, and that IS an impactful restriction on someone's life. It's one that exists because someone thinks their beliefs are the right ones and refuse to see the credibility in others'. By not allowing homosexuals the right to marry, those responsible are making decisions for people they should have no control over.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundance View Post
I'm not pretending anything. I'm sure some random people probably get jumped because they are
gay, but I think that is very rare.
And I think you should do more research.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundance View Post
People get beat up for many different reasons.
Some people will bash you in the face because you looked at them the wrong way.
I'm not disputing that. Your statement earlier was "No one is physically attacking them, shooting them, etc." and the fact I was able to find an actual news report of such a case disproves your theory of how gays are treated. That case made the news, many don't.
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Old 05-28-2009, 02:17 PM
 
Location: Elkins, WV
1,981 posts, read 5,230,178 times
Reputation: 807
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundance View Post
I don't think gays ARE discriminated against. You have to practically be gay, to even be in the entertainment industry. Most gay people are very popular.
You said you cannot get married; but you said your lives ARE the same, as if you WERE married;
so obviously, this "discrimination" you speak of isn't impacting your life in any serious manner, else
you would not be able to conduct your life so freely and without restriction.
I'm not pretending anything. I'm sure some random people probably get jumped because they are
gay, but I think that is very rare.
People get beat up for many different reasons.
Some people will bash you in the face because you looked at them the wrong way.
Well not to be too blunt... but you are entirely uninformed and do not know what you're talking about. People get attacked every day for being gay, everywhere, everyday. Elementary and middle school was a living nightmare for me, I would get picked on nearly every day. Why? Because I was different, and gay and society has told those little jerks that its ok and acceptable to do those things. I could sit here and list the names they called me but that still wouldn't get through to you people.

Middle school kids have been committing suicide recently over this yet there are still people who say "random" "rare". You don't know the pain and hurt and the torment people go through and its insulting to hear apathy towards it.

The discrimination I speak of isn't impacting me because we aren't married even in our minds. We've dated 3 years+ but we are not interested in getting married right now. We think we are too young, and maybe after grad school we'll consider it. So in order to prove that we aren't being discriminated against how about from now on no heterosexual couples get married. If they can live together in their home and simply "live" like they're married why worry about it. Lets just get rid of marriage all together.

Boy that wouldn't go over too well would it? Taking someone's marriage rights away... hmmmmmm
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Old 05-28-2009, 07:27 PM
 
Location: USA
1,895 posts, read 4,046,420 times
Reputation: 1990
Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaHerdOn View Post
Well not to be too blunt... but you are entirely uninformed and do not know what you're talking about. People get attacked every day for being gay, everywhere, everyday. Elementary and middle school was a living nightmare for me, I would get picked on nearly every day. Why? Because I was different, and gay and society has told those little jerks that its ok and acceptable to do those things. I could sit here and list the names they called me but that still wouldn't get through to you people.

Middle school kids have been committing suicide recently over this yet there are still people who say "random" "rare". You don't know the pain and hurt and the torment people go through and its insulting to hear apathy towards it.

The discrimination I speak of isn't impacting me because we aren't married even in our minds. We've dated 3 years+ but we are not interested in getting married right now. We think we are too young, and maybe after grad school we'll consider it. So in order to prove that we aren't being discriminated against how about from now on no heterosexual couples get married. If they can live together in their home and simply "live" like they're married why worry about it. Lets just get rid of marriage all together.

Boy that wouldn't go over too well would it? Taking someone's marriage rights away... hmmmmmm
Should gay people be allowed to get married? I don't know, I don't really have an opinion. I try to stay out of politics and controversial topics that offend people, but I CAN tell you, as a Christian, that I believe the Lord loves gay people the same as others. Can you be gay and be a Christian - yes I think so,
because that's like asking, "Can you be a glutton, and be a Christian?"
Or can you be a Christian if you are divorced, if you have a bad temper, or what not.

I do believe that the Lord's plan is for opposite genders to marry, but I think people are gay for a reason, perhaps they were hurt by their opposite-sex parent, and so to get love, they have to get it from the same sex. I think everyone has the same drive, to be loved.

I have my own opinions, but I don't have all the answers, but then, I don't have to, because I'm not the one who is doing the deciding, ultimately. I know gay people need love, too. That's all I can tell you.
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Old 05-28-2009, 08:43 PM
 
4,714 posts, read 11,729,838 times
Reputation: 1049
Life is a journey of experiences...we are on our own individual paths to wisdom...It will take everyone, helping everyone to get where they are going...

In my travels, I've found that most people want to live in peace, meet their needs and live in safety.

Other than that...It's just simple chaos.

I've made my life in Wv because I thought the people here were the most 'accepting and honest people I had ever met..

When there has been a 'problem...I've found that the blame has been more on my side of the equation than others..

I have said so several times in this blog...

The beginning is found when a person can love himself...when he can look in the mirror, eyeball to eyeball and say..."I'm good...I'm of great worth and now that 'I AM...I can begin to help others...?

It's the Karma...the pure self-confidence that carries the power to reach peace...

Owe Father Jude for that tid-bit...
He said, "The world is full of evil, David...that's what it is...You will have to reach 'Inner Peace by yourself...no one can do it for you...When you get there, you can reach out and help others...This is what we must do with our lives....this is why we are here."
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Old 05-28-2009, 11:17 PM
 
1,653 posts, read 5,016,089 times
Reputation: 1423
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Kennedy View Post
Owe Father Jude for that tid-bit...
He said, "The world is full of evil, David...that's what it is...You will have to reach 'Inner Peace by yourself...no one can do it for you...When you get there, you can reach out and help others...This is what we must do with our lives....this is why we are here."
"Purity and impurity are personal matters - no one can purify another."
-Buddha
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Old 05-29-2009, 12:01 AM
 
Location: Elkins, WV
1,981 posts, read 5,230,178 times
Reputation: 807
The last three posts are great!!!! You all made great points.
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Old 06-06-2009, 01:07 AM
 
Location: Elkins, WV
1,981 posts, read 5,230,178 times
Reputation: 807
Great news everyone!!!!

State Supreme Court rules in favor of same-sex foster parents.


By Andrew Clevenger
Staff writer

CHARLESTON, W.Va. -- The state Supreme Court has allowed an infant to stay with her same-sex foster parents in Fayette County.

In a unanimous decision released on Friday, the justices determined that Fayette Circuit Judge Paul Blake erred when he allowed the state Department of Health and Human Resources to approve the infant's removal from her foster home.

The child had lived with Kathryn Kutil and Cheryl Hess, a same-sex couple who had already been approved as foster parents, for her entire life after having been born to drug-addicted mother in December 2007.

Blake agreed with Thomas Fast, the child's court-appointed guardian-ad-litem, and the DHHR's recommendation to relocate the child, and decided that the child would be better off in a home with a "traditional" family, i.e. a married mother and father.

"Despite the number of times that this Court has stated the best interest of the child is the polar star upon which decisions involving children are to be based, DHHR did not even consider whether the individual needs of [the child] would be best served by removing her from [Hess and Kutil's] care, but instead opted for a swift and ready solution to the problem the agency created," the opinion states.

"The agency simply turned a blind eye to the fact that [the child] had been placed in the foster home a number of months before some of the other children then in the home, and ignored any consideration of the impact relocation would have on [the child's] emotional, physical and mental development."

Blake was not motivated to remove the child because she was receiving sub-standard care, the justices concluded.

"It is more than apparent that the only reason why [Kutil and Hess] were being replaced as foster care providers was to promote the adoption of [the child] by what [Blake] called in his November 12, 2008, order a 'traditionally defined family, that is, a family consisting of both a mother and a father,'" the opinion reads.

The Charleston Gazette - West Virginia News and Sports - News - State Supreme Court rules in favor of same-sex foster parents*
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Old 02-23-2010, 12:06 AM
 
1 posts, read 1,579 times
Reputation: 16
I'd like to know where is the outrage...........why aren't people more alert as to the rights being taken away from these people? Who's next to have their rights wiped out with a stroke of a pen???
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