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Old 01-22-2009, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Puerto Penasco, Mexico
967 posts, read 2,656,810 times
Reputation: 516

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May be germane to point out that it's a PRIVILEGE to work, not a RIGHT.

If you think along those lines, you will conform to the standard your boss expects. If it doesn't fit your lifestyle- move along. Don't force the employer to compromise his vision for the company or their employees. If I had to worry about the ACLU if you don't work out, I wouldn't hire you. You may say discrimination, I say good business decision.

I agree with OUA on maternity leave. Treat it the way companies do for folks in the Military reserves. Your job is there, but you aren't getting paid. It's too much to force a company to operate short-handed, or pay a temp. It's also unfair to the people who have to pick up your slack.
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Old 01-22-2009, 09:56 AM
 
Location: West Cobb County, GA (Atlanta metro)
9,190 posts, read 29,588,598 times
Reputation: 5091
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioUberAlles View Post
It is important to know that if somebody winds up being a screw-up, you can easily fire them. I personally wouldn't have much of a problem with hiring a black, but it is always going to be in my mind if they don't fit in or work properly, firing them will be an uphill battle....Most managers realize if they fire a white guy, they won't be swarmed by an army of lawyers and demonstrators singing and waving signs. The opposite is often the case when it comes to firing blacks.
Well, you can substitute just about anyone in place of "black", or use black. Gay, Jewish, woman, man, etc... sub any of them for the following...

This goes to what I was saying about having an employee code handbook, that EVERY new employee must read, sign a form that says they've read and understand it, and then get a copy. If you have such a book that covers all your bases regarding what you expect from each employee, and that employee breaks those rules, you have grounds to fire them.

It doesn't matter if the employee is black or gay or a woman or a man, etc etc... if you spell it out in the book, they've signed a paper acknowledging their understanding of the book and that they agree to go by it, and then they break those rules.. poof, you can legally fire them. No lawyer, gay activist, Jesse Jackson, or anyone else can do a thing about it provided you're firing them for something that's in that book, they broke, and you say in that book they can be dismissed for it and they signed that paper saying they understand what's in that book.

All major companies do things in this way. Many medium-large companies do things this way. But the last time a survey was done, almost NO small businesses used employee code books at all. Almost none. They just hired people off the street and started them to work with a handshake, like it was Mayberry 1956. You can't do things like this anymore. You MUST be "by the book" and have records and signed papers from each employee that says they agree to your work terms. If you do this, sure, you can fire someone for being gay (or black or whatever) - provided they've broken some of those rules. It takes a couple of hours on your part typing at the computer, and a quick visual scan by a lawyer maybe to make sure you're not leaving anything out.

Still, while this covers being able to fire someone who's not playing by the rules regardless of who they are, I still think a person should be hired based on personal skills that add to your company, and someone shouldn't worry about being fired for their personal dating preferences so long as it doesn't interfere with their work at my office. Again, just my opinion. Damn, I got a lot of 'em.
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Old 01-22-2009, 09:59 AM
 
Location: Falling Waters, WV
1,502 posts, read 6,624,403 times
Reputation: 786
Quote:
Originally Posted by atlantagreg30127 View Post
No one knew about any of them were gay until frankly, people started thinking, "[i]Hey, you know Bob doesn't ever talk about getting any on the weekends or going to Hooters - do ya think...
Okay, this made me laugh because you could be talking about my hubby , he doesn't get any on the weekends and doesn't go to Hooters

Anywho, I just thought it was funny, maybe he doesn't, hehe
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Old 01-22-2009, 10:01 AM
 
Location: West Cobb County, GA (Atlanta metro)
9,190 posts, read 29,588,598 times
Reputation: 5091
Quote:
Originally Posted by Janipoo View Post
Okay, this made me laugh because you could be talking about my hubby , he doesn't get any on the weekends and doesn't go to Hooters
You probably just described 85% of the husbands in America (even the gay ones where they're legal) .. LOL
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Old 01-22-2009, 10:03 AM
 
Location: Ohio
1,008 posts, read 641,004 times
Reputation: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by atlantagreg30127 View Post
Well, you can substitute just about anyone in place of "black", or use black. Gay, Jewish, woman, man, etc... sub any of them for the following...

This goes to what I was saying about having an employee code handbook, that EVERY new employee must read, sign a form that says they've read and understand it, and then get a copy. If you have such a book that covers all your bases regarding what you expect from each employee, and that employee breaks those rules, you have grounds to fire them.

It doesn't matter if the employee is black or gay or a woman or a man, etc etc... if you spell it out in the book, they've signed a paper acknowledging their understanding of the book and that they agree to go by it, and then they break those rules.. poof, you can legally fire them. No lawyer, gay activist, Jesse Jackson, or anyone else can do a thing about it provided you're firing them for something that's in that book, they broke, and you say in that book they can be dismissed for it and they signed that paper saying they understand what's in that book.

All major companies do things in this way. Many medium-large companies do things this way. But the last time a survey was done, almost NO small businesses used employee code books at all. Almost none. They just hired people off the street and started them to work with a handshake, like it was Mayberry 1956. You can't do things like this anymore. You MUST be "by the book" and have records and signed papers from each employee that says they agree to your work terms. If you do this, sure, you can fire someone for being gay (or black or whatever) - provided they've broken some of those rules. It takes a couple of hours on your part typing at the computer, and a quick visual scan by a lawyer maybe to make sure you're not leaving anything out.

Still, while this covers being able to fire someone who's not playing by the rules regardless of who they are, I still think a person should be hired based on personal skills that add to your company, and someone shouldn't worry about being fired for their personal dating preferences so long as it doesn't interfere with their work at my office. Again, just my opinion. Damn, I got a lot of 'em.

I know a woman who was a manager at a certain company... She had a black employee, a guy who was late about 50-60 days in a row, typically 10-30 minutes late. She told him if he was late one more time, he would be fired. The next day he came in about 2-3 hours late, clearly to insult her. She then told him he was fired. He then proceeded to assault her after he threw a chair through the window of her office. He then proceeded to sue her for discrimination.

I didn't say anything about such people winning in court, but they can and often do sue. Having to deal with any lawsuit is going to be an unwelcome hassle.

My point is that when dealing with white employees, they may very well sue you, but they're going to be paying out of pocket expenses. They don't have standing armies of NAACP lawyers, with Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton waiting to rush to their defense, that they can call on for their bogus lawsuits.
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Old 01-22-2009, 10:35 AM
 
Location: Puerto Penasco, Mexico
967 posts, read 2,656,810 times
Reputation: 516
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioUberAlles View Post
..was late about 50-60 days in a row, typically 10-30 minutes late. She told him if he was late one more time, he would be fired. The next day he came in about 2-3 hours late, clearly to insult her.
Have to have the counselling in writing, for each tardiness. Then you have a case to fight it. Short of that, you're going to lose. My wife deals with those kinds of people everyday.
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Old 01-22-2009, 10:40 AM
 
Location: Ohio
1,008 posts, read 641,004 times
Reputation: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hinton Bound View Post
Have to have the counselling in writing, for each tardiness. Then you have a case to fight it. Short of that, you're going to lose. My wife deals with those kinds of people everyday.

Do note that he did throw a chair through her window after which he proceeded to assault her, in a crowded office building.

I would say that alone should mean she and her company win the case.
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Old 01-22-2009, 11:54 AM
 
Location: West Cobb County, GA (Atlanta metro)
9,190 posts, read 29,588,598 times
Reputation: 5091
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioUberAlles View Post
I know a woman who was a manager at a certain company... She had a black employee, a guy who was late about 50-60 days in a row, typically 10-30 minutes late. She told him if he was late one more time, he would be fired. The next day he came in about 2-3 hours late, clearly to insult her. She then told him he was fired. He then proceeded to assault her after he threw a chair through the window of her office. He then proceeded to sue her for discrimination.
Well, the assault is uncontrollable and can happen to anyone by anyone. I've seen employees go nuts on employers before and color had nothing to do with it. A nutjob is a nutjob. However, I'd bet money regarding his tardy problem that she never wrote him up about it (I mean come on - 50 to 60 days in a ROW and she waited that long to do something about it??). If she followed standard professional procedure and wrote him up each time he was late, AND had that rules of conduct book he signed off for that I spoke of, then she could have legally fired him after 3 unexcused late days and he'd have had nothing at all to fall back on legally. That was her bad.
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Old 01-22-2009, 12:43 PM
 
Location: Ohio
1,008 posts, read 641,004 times
Reputation: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by atlantagreg30127 View Post
Well, the assault is uncontrollable and can happen to anyone by anyone. I've seen employees go nuts on employers before and color had nothing to do with it. A nutjob is a nutjob. However, I'd bet money regarding his tardy problem that she never wrote him up about it (I mean come on - 50 to 60 days in a ROW and she waited that long to do something about it??). If she followed standard professional procedure and wrote him up each time he was late, AND had that rules of conduct book he signed off for that I spoke of, then she could have legally fired him after 3 unexcused late days and he'd have had nothing at all to fall back on legally. That was her bad.
Yes, she did let it go too far, but it stands to reason if somebody is willing to assault you when they get fired after 60 warnings, they're willing to assault you after 3 warnings. The guy was violent and disturbed. The point is that even after assaulting her, he still had the nerve to sue her. I believe the company settled just to make him go away.

Of course anybody could have done it, my point is that you tend not to find a surplus of lawyers rushing to take the case of some random White guy, fired under similar circumstances. There are literally armies of lawyers with groups such as the NAACP that do nothing other than handle cases about employment discrimination.

It makes one wonder what the lawsuit was trying to say? She'd have been okay with being assaulted if it was a White guy? I mean, whatever attorney took that case had to be either money hungry, desperate, or just plain stupid.

I was fired once before, and it was laughably easy. The boss said I didn't have a job with him anymore, and that was that, I walked out the door and that was the end of it.
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Old 01-22-2009, 04:54 PM
 
Location: Charleston, WV
3,105 posts, read 6,491,142 times
Reputation: 830
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioUberAlles View Post
I know a woman who was a manager at a certain company... She had a black employee, a guy who was late about 50-60 days in a row, ........... He then proceeded to sue her for discrimination..............
That is one of the things that have gotten our country into the mess it is -- people playing the system. No matter if it is someone black, white, red, yellow, or purple - the people who abuse the system ruin it for all of us. Makes me sick and sad.

Know of one company - guy walked on the job site and asked about work. They weren't hiring and told him they were not. Few days later the company had a discrimination lawsuit thrown at them cuz they did not hire the man (they hadn't hired anyone!). Cost the company $15,000 in lawyer fees to defend themselves. If the guy REALLY wanted a job, he would have left resume, etc. so hopefully when they were hiring he may get hired. He evidently didn't want a job - was just looking for free money.
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