West Virgina -economical situation (Charleston: relocating, upkeep, landscaping)

[appalachiangirl]

I read that the appalachian region has high cancer rates--particularly East KY,WV,PA and east TN. I wonder if this has to with mining or lack of medical care,or air pollution. I was surprised to learn this,since there are many other areas with high industry/pollution suh as parts of CA,NJ,NY,etc.The lowest cancer rates are in the Western mountain states like WY,Montana,etc. But these areas also have low populations.

[David Kennedy]

Not all of it can be attributed to those three things. I was doing a water survey in the 80's in a nearby county...a nice little town...all ground water...their cancer rate was in the 90 percentile. Lead and Cadmium levels in the water...naturally leeched out of the rock...In a few years a public water suppy was created and the problem went away.

Some of our cancer resistance is genetic...eventually, we will all get it...it's the presumtive 'taker of life. Sort of the 'finishing off of the aging process.
I was talking to an old college friend today about the aging process and the huge strides medicine has made to keep us alive, far beyond the time we should die.
He said, " yeah...our bodies are in great shape and our minds begin to fail...what good is it?" He was right on the money...its a quality of life thing...
WV's population has every concevable health problem...I think obesity and diet is the real premature killer...how can a person load their frame with all that weighted fat and expect it to function....to much load on the knees, feet...back and heart...something has to go...
Nobody gets out of here alive...

[harborlady]

Originally Posted by appalachiangirl

I read that the appalachian region has high cancer rates--particularly East KY,WV,PA and east TN. I wonder if this has to with mining or lack of medical care,or air pollution. I was surprised to learn this,since there are many other areas with high industry/pollution suh as parts of CA,NJ,NY,etc.The lowest cancer rates are in the Western mountain states like WY,Montana,etc. But these areas also have low populations.

Pollution standpoint I checked the charleston area before I moved here (oh, BTW, I have a house now and like most houses in charleston, it has lead paint in the walls ). EPA incidents that were major were discovered in the 80's in the nitro area. The kanawha river flows north westerly, essentially feeding southern pa and ohio PCB's and whatnot (misc. known carcinogens). South of charleston is a dupont plant, over by belle, and some spills or runnoff are not sufficient quantities to report, but if they should be daily, it becomes a cumulative problem. I'm just talking as someone who knows the ropes about hazardous waste ops and coast guard legalities because that's what I did at my last job.
The area I'm living in the interstate hwys run right alongside the river, and how runnoff from the weather is handled may be a significant factor in the health of the water. Not sure if WV was ever required to have the additive MTBE in gasoline, but up north it was, and they found that although it reduced air pollution, it chemically bound with the ground water ostensibly shifting contaminants into drinking water which couldn't be filtered/separated out like oil and water.
What info is publically available online for charleston as an example reflects that the water is fine and tested regularly, however, I wouldn't dare suggest my nephew go swimming in the elk or kanawha river because the prevalence of industry stacked up on those waters presents a very high risk. "Fine" as determined by FDA for peanut butter says 2 rat hairs per jar of peanut butter is fine, but no more than 2, because more than that indicates a higher rat population which means the increased chance of rat feces in their finished product. Basically its a statistical way to ensure general health and maximum business profit.
Similarly, just because water is reported acceptable doesn't mean it's without contaminants, but defined as having a threshold value of contaminants BELOW a hazardous level (determined by business sponsored scientists who submit their results for review to OSHA scientists, who in turn may or may not have the funds or resources to prove or disprove the original results.).
You mentioned canada, ny, and nj. Consider that during the industrial age of early 1900's, waterways were used to not only transport goods/supplies, but also used as universal solvent to keep the wheels turning. Con edison electric company of ny used the hudson river to dump their pcb's, which got into the food chain. Love canal was a ground breaking moment in environmental law. Canada, ohio, upstate ny all had problems with acid rain from industry bellowing crap into the sky, changing the PH of rain with excess sulfur, and altering the landscape as a result. It's not one industry, but all industry practices cumulative effect in that ERA compounded by population intensity. NJ has a great deal of superfund sites not only from old industry leftover, but from current industry. The colonial pipeline runs from new england all the way to texas down the coast, and major port connection for imported crude lands in nj's notorious refinery row (see opening credits for sopranos to give you an idea). Before best practices & environmental laws were established, whatever couldn't be sold as result of cracking process was dumped on or into the ground which made its way to all estuaries in the area regardless of municipal boundaries.
Example: You can do a net search on bayway refinery, currently owned by conoco phillips, which inherited that superfund site as part of the sale. They're reputable, will jump hoops to do the right thing, but know with certainty that their neighbors grandfathered into a clause from 1900's standard oil co. era probably won't. Times only change for new business, but older business enjoy perks and privleges that defy the will of the people. EPA is a paper tiger used for media politics (thanks to republican de clawing through reduced enforcement funds). Interesting to see that entire federal arms performance under bush admin. vs clinton admin. Nuff said?
As for eastern KY and TN, please check out this map and note that if you research it out further you will find historically that either there are inherent underground phenomena (coal/uranium/gas reserves as example) that have mingled with tilled growing soil or water supply, or that industry was delivering poop to their doorstep somehow someway. Remember that water seeks its own level, travels outside the bounds of our silly lines, and once chemically released by our hands nature will deal with it in her own way.
Whatever the toxicity levels you've seen would likely be attributed to the lands inability to absorb/process contaminants or a dead end estuary that has little way to cleanse itself through natural means. I was camping in eastern ky at daniel boone and noted how stagnant the water was for the area, despite the fact the body of water was very large. When a site isn't actively managed by human intervention, the shelf life of the contaminant is calling the shots. Here's a map to show you what little significance our state borders have in the bigger picture.
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...&ct=image&cd=2
Although I can agree with DK on american nutritions significant contribution to disease, the quality of the food is directly connected to our 200 + yrs environmental irresponsibility AND the politics of making a living in this day and age. An excess of processed/fast foods have become primary instead of ancillary in our diet. You've only to open your cupboard door and look inside to see it for yourselves. About 10 yrs ago I walked through the supermarket and tried to buy groceries for a weeks worth of meals that were nutritionally sound, but 90% of the store was modern chemistry. How many of us can afford to spend $3 on a bag of organic carrots that may or may not be organic because the industry standards aren't clear enough? We might not die from food poisoning because that twinkie has a 200 yr shelf life, but we'll die from preservatives not compatible with our body chemistry that might trigger our genetic inability to manage free radicals.

It's a lesser of evils trade off, and whichever solution has immediate gratification wins mostly because these problems are bigger than any of us, and so we're left with narrow choices in our limited realm of control of this moments demands, based largely on false science warped by commerce. Economically, we don't see the sweat shop our sneakers on sale came from, nor do we know what damage was done to deliver the affordable produce from chile vs the more expensive version from a US territory, or the TRUE cost of producing product for walmart in china vs USA. We live in a time when life itself is abstracted beyond belief, what resources we need to exist in this manmade civilization culminating from all over the globe from people we will never meet.
Blame all we want, not many of us online know what it is to work 2 $7/hr hellish jobs and raise kids when the real cost of living means we need to make $18/hr for that region- somethings gotta give in that budget, whether nutritionally or no time spent to raise them. If you've got disposible income enough to be on the net, you aren't neck deep in poverty, and less qualified to judge those who are in those circumstances. Beyond that, what's the excuse for the rest of us? I'm guilty of ignorance, particularly because I don't consider any source (greenies or govt or industry) as credible, so here I am stuck without the ability to educate myself. The closest thing to credible I've come across is science from europe that appears to rise above the lobbyist system of the states (but I could be wrong about this too).
Don't get me started on frankenfoods and monsanto corps control of food supply through genetic manipulation and seed patents! Soylent green here we come.

[David Kennedy]

One of your very best blogs...I'm printing this for future use. A side comment...an entire generation will sample the taste and beneficial goodness of home grown foods...called 'Going Green...this part of this PR stunt, I'm for...get those gardens in...large...mini...or a few plants of peppers or tomato's in pots...see just what we ate in ages past and compare it to the vehicle produce in the stores today...the machine picked hardy, tasteless foods...yuk!

[harborlady]

Yuppers DK- anyone interested in this vein of convo can also do net search on keyword: heirloom seeds, and gardens not lawns (for the suburbanites wanna farm on a 1/3 acre lot!)

[citybilly]

The observation that life is abstracted beyond belief, kind of sums it all up. Maybe it's a little off topic, but I get the same feeling watching the news; no control on gas prices, it's all about some abstract theory that the "market" self regulates. Politics, the coming election, is just insanity. Unless you are a lobbyist or a super-delegate, forget it. I think we started really losing our grip on reality back about the time Jesse Ventura went from wrestler to governor. Or maybe that's just when I started noticing it.

[harborlady]

Originally Posted by citybilly

The observation that life is abstracted beyond belief, kind of sums it all up. Maybe it's a little off topic, but I get the same feeling watching the news; no control on gas prices, it's all about some abstract theory that the "market" self regulates. Politics, the coming election, is just insanity. Unless you are a lobbyist or a super-delegate, forget it. I think we started really losing our grip on reality back about the time Jesse Ventura went from wrestler to governor. Or maybe that's just when I started noticing it.

harborlady did predict when bush set out to campaign for war in iraq that this war would be lost economically, and lets see if I'm right. We've hemmoraged out how many trillions into a hole in the sand in iraq for what benefit? We're fighting someone elses civil war for what purpose?
If you were a middle eastern oil monger capable of seeing what an oil junkie america was, and able to coerce your other opec buddies into a gentlemans agreement to maintain a high price on oil, why would you ever drop that price? Osama threw a sucker punch and led america down a rabbit hole with bush hiding behind our flag the whole road down.

The 70's embargo was the shot across the bow to wake up and smell the compost but nobody took solar tidal or wind energy seriously enough to follow through once and for all. Now we will continue to sustain economic assaults from within (from corporations exploiting benefits of america but not keeping jobs here) and from without through massive trade deficits weakening the dollar coupled with energy price stranglehold.

When bush took office, a barrel of crude was less than $30 per barrel. Last I checked it was $115 per bbl and rising. No external events happened that changed the supply other than bush's oil moneyed family putting us in a war with an oil producing nation in an oil producing region and we're the chumps paying the bill in blood sweat and dollars. Where is Kuwait as a supplier? Did they cover our backs with locked in pricing? No, ladies and gentlemen, they did NOT.

We pay for it in every conceivable product produced, from farm equipment needed to plow a field to plastics and pharmacology derived from petrochemicals. It's in your synthetic rug, it's on your teflon pan, it's on every delivered item for every ounce of product delivered by truck rail or plane throughout our economy- oil oil everywhere, and if you don't quit it will kill you.

This oil biz is evil. Get them so they can't live without you, then squeeze the life out of them. Can you hear me now?

[David Kennedy]

The oil problem has been 60 years in the making. No single president has been responsible. The free nations are being blackmailed in the same vein as a Dope dealer does his customers. Look for that 2 billion dollar home owned by that Saudi Prince...has a solid silver BMW..makes Al Gore's place look like a shanty...one of his wive's necklace worth over 10 million dollars...We in America are just poor white trash...laughing.

Busness runs on a 'dollar. It always has. With our money not worth much, durable goods carry a 'real value price. We are seeing that adjustment.
Wages are always last to correct.

These wars have always been fought to grease someones pockets....ask Ross Perot.
Ross owns the largest airport in the world...and the largest frieight company...

I agree with your solution...independance from everything we can free ourselves from.

Get a job you can walk to...(know that's impossible) but freedom from debt and drugs can be realized...Those two things free up a lot of resources...
The cigarettes and booze I gave up at the end of my Marine enlistment would cover a million bucks...the interest from debt...never thought about it...Cash can speak loudly and they still take it at the register...have a great weekend every one..I'm on vacation for a week....dk

[appalachiangirl]

I do buy some things organic and drink bottled water. Maybe this isn't a huge help,but with several members of my family losing their lives to cancer, I'd rather do this. I can't afford to buy everything at a health store. I don't smoke or drink (there is alcoholism in my family and I see what it does to ruin lives). I've never messed with drugs either. My biggest hurdle is difficulty losing wt. I went through a terrible depressing time in my life when I lost my parents and my one uncle and I cried and overate and could not seem to get my life together. I gained 25lbs in a year (not good when one needs to lose 25-30lbs to begin with). I hate even taking medication (for depression) but it got to the point I had to. Clinical depression is nothing to mess with--I also had a cousin who shot himself after he g0t divorced and lost his job. Sad and scary to have these things in one's family!

[citybilly]

Appalachiangirl- just a wild guess but do you have trouble sleeping? That can contribute to depression. Many people with weight issues seem to have sleep apnea. If you have insurance, you might want to get a sleep study. If you don't have ins. then try sleeping with your head elevated. (I put bricks under one side of my bed.) I had a sleep study and I sleep with a CPAP machine. It made a big difference. By the way, I'm with you on the bottled water. I drink Sams Club; I just hope it ain't bottled in China.