Land in W Va's Panhandle? (Franklin: houses, rent, travel)

[harborlady]

Originally Posted by Threerun

If you were to buy a house for $150,000 today, and mortgage 100% of it (this is only for comparisons sake) the math would be something like this:

150,000 x 6% x 360 months = total repayment p/i $323,758.80

Now look at the average appreciation rate over the same period of time:

150,000 x 3.2% avg. annual appreciation rate x 30 years = $384,894.94

That's a difference of $61,136 to your benefit (based on the average appreciation).

That's not calculating the fact that whatever you are currently paying for housing costs (rent) goes into someone else's pocket. Factoring that is obvious.

I'm not saying that paying cash for a home is bad, but rather financing is generally a wise choice as well.

And it sounds as if you could use some tax exempt bond funds if INT income is eating at you.

wish I had that advice 5 yrs ago, which I paid for but didnt get
horse is out of the barn now, I'm in spend mode on a down market

[David Kennedy]

The first home I built in 1976 was a 1750 sf ranch with 2 car garage...that house cost $38,500 to build and was sold for $50,000 That same house sold 3 yrs ago for $175,000.

To build that same house today, the cost would be $218,750..turnkey on the owners lot.
Here's my question: After all the expenses...up keep, insurance, taxes, additional utilitiy costs and everything else....Is it cheaper to rent?

[Threerun]

Depends. In some markets it may make sense to rent, in others not.

We bought 4 acres for $19,000 in Berkeley County 9 years ago. We built a 2,000 sq. ft cedar sided cape cod, covered porch, decks, random width wood floors.. Not extravagant but very comfortable. It cost me $160,000 to build it. I'd say over 8 years of ownership I paid maybe $10,000 in repairs and minor upgrades. So my cost basis was about $190,000.

Utility costs were the same as our rental, insurance was a bit higher (but not much). Say over 8 years that amounted to a $7,000 price differential over renting (thinking worse case). So we're up to $197,000 now.

I sold our home a little over a month ago for $310,000 (asking price was $325,000) In 2005 I would have sold for $325,000+.

That's a pretty nice return even though I had expenses that were higher than if I rented. I think the decision rests on if you can afford the additional monthly expenses (or rather wish to deploy your capital towards it) of owning a home.

And believe you me, some people failed to research utilities and insurance costs until AFTER they had bought those McMansion homes. SURPRISE! $400 p/mo electric bill!

[k1k1]

We are considering buying some land in Pleasants County and building. Including all price ranges and sizes with and without acreage, there are only 32 homes in the Pleasants County MLS, total. The small house information in this thread speaks directly to my heart - I would like a small, quality home. I'd like to avoid some of the industrial area. It seems like there are really only a few choices ridge, hollow or riverside. What do you guys think are the advantages of building on a ridge, what are the advantages of building in a hollow? Some pros/cons are obvious, more sunlight on the ridge, for example - but also more arid on a ridge (I like to plant flowers). Views of the river are nice, but how do I find out more than general flood trends, but specific flood info for a housing site? I have found several home plans I'm interested in, but I don't know how to estimate building costs - other than by buying the plans and taking them to a builder to see what they would charge. What's a good distance from a small road to a home site in a hilly area, taking into account that too close is emotionally uncomfortable and unsafe for small child and icky and that too far needlessly increases cost of running the utilities out - How can I tell if an area is "snaky"? I am against snakiness on principal. (Please don't tell me to just start flipping over rocks). And also, I've moved far far far too many times in my life to get much involved in city planning, but it looks like we may be in Pleasants County for the long term - I'd like to serve on committees that help shape the way the community develops, the quality of life type stuff, forgive my ignorance, this is the first step to remedying it - but what committees are those?

[harborlady]

Originally Posted by k1k1

We are considering buying some land in Pleasants County and building.
I would like a small, quality home. I'd like to avoid some of the industrial area. It seems like there are really only a few choices ridge, hollow or riverside.
how do I find out more than general flood trends, but specific flood info for a housing site? I have found several home plans I'm interested in, but I don't know how to estimate building costs - other than by buying the plans and taking them to a builder to see what they would charge. What's a good distance from a small road to a home site
How can I tell if an area is "snaky"? I am against snakiness on principal. I'd like to serve on committees that help shape the way the community

Speaking only as a fellow home seeker, here's what I can share with you. Be very clear about what you need, making a list of MUST haves, another list for the gravy of WANTS. It will help narrow your choices down for you on the open market, so you don't waste time on things completely out of the question. Asking other people to make up your mind for you in a capitalist market will guarantee your quest turn expensive.

As a guide, know that whatever choice you make will have a downside. The thing thats helped me decide things is this- how much will it cost to compensate for this shortcoming?

No building cost estimator is guaranteed 100% because of price changes in the market place, local additional costs beyond shelf prices, and the challenges not anticipated on a particular job site. Depending on your area, I've heard construction cost estimates as low as $86 sq ft and as high as $160 sq ft. Be sure your budget has a margin for added costs, or you might get stuck with a 3/4 done home due to lack of funds. It's been my experience so far that you can't know anything specific until you get in a town, talking to the contractors or realtors directly. Leg work cannot be avoided if you mean to stay economical.

Statistically, I read that the most economical floorplans stay in the range of 1200 sq ft. Resale value is preserved by not being too small (excluding potential buyers), but operating costs are kept to a dull roar (HVAC costs aren't so far from 800 sq homes, but shoot up astronomically once you get past 1800 sq). The term they use is 'economy of scale' which might be useful for google search homework.
flooding- inquire with fema & local flood insurance providers, followed by investigating landscaping techniques. The latter will also help you optimize how far away from the road you should build and still retain privacy/security you'd feel comfy about.
snakes- animal habitats indigenous to wv. the local game warden, dept of conservation, and park reps are very helpful too.
commitees- wvgov.org is a start point
Not to sound insulting, but I found the book "general contracting for dummies" to be very useful. Yes, I'm using it myself. I highly recomend it to prevent walking into known financial holes.

I wish you well finding or building your home sweet home.

[snorpus]

I wouldn't take the MLS number too seriously. In some sparsely populated counties, there might be one realtor that dominates the market, and sees no reason to join the multi-list. In Pocahontas County, for example, probably 75% of the listings are with Red Oak; there isn't even a multilist at all.

Personally, I like to be nearer the ridge than the valley. Especially if you get a good southern exposure, you can take advantage of some passive solar features today, and be prepared to retrofit some active solar when the prices come down (or if fossil fuels continue to rise ). West Virginia in general is not an arid area, so I think your flowers will do well anywhere.

My house is about 400' back from the road, and we found with our kids that was more than enough. I'd recommend more than the typical suburban setback of 30-40'... 100 to 150 would probably be a good number.

I saw a book in Lowe's with pretty detailed tables for estimating construction costs, but it really varies a whole lot (recall the recent posts about the mobile homes in Malibu?). Slab vs crawl space vs basement, foundation footprint, roof type, fireplace(s)?, carpeting, tile, or hardwood floors, drywall or plaster, stock or custom cabinetry, etc. etc. etc. One factor in your favor now is that the housing market is down, so some material prices should be falling, and some contractors might be shaving the prices a bit. You can also save a bit by doing some of the finishing work yourself (if you're up to that).

[David Kennedy]

A very smart small house is 28' x 44' 1230 sf, 3 decent bedrooms and 1 and 3/4 baths.
With the living room and kitchen opened into one great room, it works very well.
The 3/4 bath is in the Master and gives the privacy needed.
On a full basement with 22 ft of that basement used as the garage and the other half as laundry and recreation room...it becomes the winner for usable space and value.
An option for this plan is a roof of at least 7/12 and the attic becomes usable too. Cost: about $100 per sf Many of these have been built through the years as split levels, ranch styles and capes. Veneer the outside with a log veneer and they become a nice cabin or 2nd home...

Snorpus mentioned active solar...yeah I guess for ventilator fans ...but the working solution is geo-thermal...
about a 10k add on to drill and work a heat loop to your heat pump but very functional in keeping utilities in check..
My partner did this to his new home 3 yrs ago and has been laughing ever since...

Contractors saving their prices?...several shaved them with bankruptcy this fall...the smart ones work two areas...like Charlotte or Richmond/Roanoke and then here...I'm wondering who we will see at the spring dinner meeting.

[snorpus]

Well, you could always tie the photo-voltaic cells into a charger for your Chevy Volt plug-in hybrid

My across the street neighbor has geo-thermal. It works OK, but after about 15 years he had to have it dug up to fix the leaks.

I like your 28x44 size, that's just about what we're looking at in our log home, with doghouse dormers in the attic/upstairs for the 2nd and 3rd bedrooms.

[David Kennedy]

Trade the cost of those dormers for a 6' rear wall on that 2nd story and make it a salt box. Having that full-size loft will reward you many times over. If you have the money do both.

I would guess your neighbor had a low ph problem with the water in his underground bores...acid ate up the metal...

[harborlady]

Originally Posted by David Kennedy

Snorpus mentioned active solar...yeah I guess for ventilator fans ...but the working solution is geo-thermal...
about a 10k add on to drill and work a heat loop to your heat pump but very functional in keeping utilities in check..
My partner did this to his new home 3 yrs ago and has been laughing ever since...

DK & snorp:
There is also the option of creating another architectural envelope through a greenhouse without the cost of drilling.
http://www.midwestpermaculture.com/G...escription.php

The other plan I saw I can't find the link for, but basically its based on capturing daytime heat at the top of the greenhouse through plenum tubes, which mechanically direct the heat & condensation into the ground (perf tubes & gravel bed) 3 ft under the planting beds turning it into a radiant heat system at night. Tying the greenhouse structure to the southern exposure of a home results in synergy, lowering the BTU requirements of extreme temps. Combo of passive and active solar mgmt. Don't have to have a green thumb either, can be an indoor/outdoor space that extend the seasons without the price of formal architecture.

DK did he make his own or go with a company package?
anybody ever meet anyone who used solar collector for their hot water heater load?