"Charleston" vs. "The Little People"? (Huntington: crime, credit)

[Jayhawk in Hawaii]

*
Hello.

After close to a decade and a half, I "may" decide this to be my last year of living in Hawaii. Now don't get me wrong, I love the place, but there are numerous factors impressing themselves upon me which are once again causing me to feel a sense of need to close this chapter and begin again elsewhere.

My one-time home Lawrence, Kansas always rates at the top of the list for me, but I've also been looking very closely at West Virginia for a number of reasons, among them its natural beauty, its unique history, and of course its relatively cental proximity to my family members who are scattered about in a number of other states of the Union.

After considering several towns/cities in WV I've found myself gradually warming to Charleston, despite much of the negativity I've been encountering about the city.

But there's one thing about Charleston which is disturbing me greatly, and I'm hoping I'm not being too reactionary about this. It is in regard to the "City Services Fee."

Please understand, I do not at all mind paying a city-assessed tax for local purposes, despite the fact that I am what you might consider to be on the "lower end" of the economic scale. But it is precisely because I am just your typical wage-earning Joe that the CSF does not set well with me. The way I understand the set-up is that EVERYONE who "works" in Charleston is assessed the "fee" -- okay, fair enough... BUT this "fee" is NOT in the form of a "city tax" which is taken as a "percentage" of wages/salaries earned, rather it is a FLAT, ACROSS THE BOARD $2 "PER WEEK" docking of your income REGARDLESS of whether you work part-time, full-time, permanent, temporary, whatever.

If I am understanding this this arrangement correctly, then this is, in my opinion, the greatest insult to working citizens surpassed only by the SSI "cap," because it places the greatest burden on those who earn the least. Two dollars a week may not seem like much on the surface until you add it all up and factor in things like living expenses, job duration, etc. Let's assume a minimum wage earner works PART-time every week the entire year: That's $104. You think someone like a Bill O'Reilly or an Oprah Winfrey would miss an extra hundred bucks per year? They pee that on any given afternoon!

Again, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying workers shouldn't contribute to the expenses of running a city -- that's what these "taxes" and "fees" are supposed to be for. But to say that EVERYBODY has to contribute the exact same "dollar amount" regardless of their economic status is so wrong on so many levels.

* Could someone please enlighten me if the City of Charleston is by any chance considering "repealing" the CSF as it is currently set-up to "replace" it with a bona fide percentage-based "municipal tax"?

* How long has the current CSF been in effect?

* How do workers in Charleston respond to the CSF as it is currently set-up?

* Are there any end of the year "tax credits" offered to "resident workers" who fall below a certain income level?


Thank you for your input.
... Aloha ...

[NOVAmtneer82]

I live in the DC area but grew up in Charleston and willingly paid the user fee during my last couple summers working at home during college (it was enacted I think in 2003 or 4). A lot of people in the Charleston area whine and complain about the user fee CONSTANTLY to the point of near hysteria and its annoying.

Many people in WV (or even really America in general) are always wanting something for nothing and the complaining/ unwillingness to pay the user fee is a prime example. The fee is needed to maintain roads and provide an adequate police force to serve the city. The same people who whine about the user fee would also be the first to complain about crime in Charleston or poorly maintained infrastructure. Working in Charleston results in driving on the city roads, guess what that produces wear and tear and they will need to be repaired. If you are in an accident or there is a major emergency in town you will probably want the police force to be properly staffed to respond and a large portion of the fee payments go to the police department. I could keep going on but I won't...

As mentioned before I paid the user fee on a salary of 2.15 an hour plus tips (with tips included I averaged about $8-$10 an hour). People who live in Charleston also pay the user fee along with city taxes that many commuters coming into town from unincorporated parts of the region don't pay.

Regardless of how much a person earns if you can't somehow find $2 each week to pay for public service improvements to the city you work in, you have serious budgetary issues. It's been called an "unfair tax" or "taxation without representation" (it isn't even a tax as you pointed out) by a lot people, many of whom I can guarantee still go out and buy their carton of cigarettes a week (despite high WV cig taxes), cases of natty light, and other random extras that they somehow view as more important.

I'm not trying to rant because like I said I don't even live in Charleston anymore, but my feelings are that if I paid it on my low wage salary then everyone else can pay up too. Let's not be greedy people..IT'S $2.

[harborlady]

I haven't had the chance to partake 'natty light' as I'm still an initiate. Am I really missing something? Is it like boone's farm wine, with the cartoon on the bottle?

[NOVAmtneer82]

hahaha college talk for Natural Light (I need to grow up lol). NO you aren't missing out on anything unless you enjoy beer with little taste, it was the keg beer of choice in high school and college because it was so cheap. I'll stick to my loyal friend Sam Adams and his many delicious brews...

[Jayhawk in Hawaii]

Originally Posted by jfronz

Regardless of how much a person earns if you can't somehow find $2 each week to pay for public service improvements to the city you work in, you have serious budgetary issues. It's been called an "unfair tax" or "taxation without representation" (it isn't even a tax as you pointed out) by a lot people, many of whom I can guarantee still go out and buy their carton of cigarettes a week (despite high WV cig taxes), cases of natty light, and other random extras that they somehow view as more important.

I'm not trying to rant because like I said I don't even live in Charleston anymore, but my feelings are that if I paid it on my low wage salary then everyone else can pay up too. Let's not be greedy people..IT'S $2.

You're entirely missing my point, fronz. My concern is not about $2 per se, it is more about the fact that the "poorest" workers pay the $2 fee and the "richest" workers pay the SAME $2 fee, regardless of income scale or hours worked.

So my question is about whether or not the Charleston City Council (or however you refer to your municipal governmental board) has recognized the inherent unfairness & inequality of this fee the way it is currently assessed and if your city councilmembers are being pressured to replace the straight $2 fee with a percentage rate based "municipal tax" instead to distribute the tax burden more fairly and equally.

Does anybody have any pertinent information about this? If such ideas are indeed being put forth to your city council, what sort of progress is the recommendation making?

[Hinton Bound]

I see Jayhawks point, and understand the basis of his argument. IMO the fee itself seems to be applied fairly because everyone across the socio-economic scale uses the city equally; or at least has equal access.

Fee payers can complain all they want, fee's are not voted on, they are simply imposed. Just another political slight-of-hand to get their paws deeper into your wallet! With a population of about 50,000, that's about $5.2M a year. The "it's only $2" is exactly what they count on to impose the fee. What are they doing with your $5.2M? I would bet that a good portion of it ends up in one of a very few select pockets.

[tbailey1138]

Jayhawk, user fees exist in WV because of the tax limitations set about by the central government in Charleston. Currently, WV cities can not have an occupation tax based on precentage so they are forced to go for the "user fee" instead. Home rule is currently being discussed in WV and they are a few months away from letting a few cities participate in the pilot program for this. From what I've read of the home rule proposals, Huntington is the only city that has plans to repeal the user fee for a payroll tax based on percentage of income. If this is a big issue for you, Huntington is only about 40 minutes west of Charleston if you want to check it out. Hope this answers your question better and here are some links to explain home rule and show you the proposals of the different cities.

http://www.city-data.com/forum/west-...home-rule.html
http://www.wboy.com/sjuploads/Home%20Rule%20cities.pdf

Harborlady, are you actually living in WV now? If so, where did you end up?

Tim

[harborlady]

tbail- in charleston, but haven't settled on a specific place yet because I mean to be looking at huntington and barboursville too.

[harborlady]

::uffs out chest::: I'M A WEST VIRGINIAN

[Jayhawk in Hawaii]

Originally Posted by tbailey1138

Jayhawk, user fees exist in WV because of the tax limitations set about by the central government in Charleston. Currently, WV cities can not have an occupation tax based on precentage so they are forced to go for the "user fee" instead. Home rule is currently being discussed in WV and they are a few months away from letting a few cities participate in the pilot program for this. From what I've read of the home rule proposals, Huntington is the only city that has plans to repeal the user fee for a payroll tax based on percentage of income. If this is a big issue for you, Huntington is only about 40 minutes west of Charleston if you want to check it out. Hope this answers your question better and here are some links to explain home rule and show you the proposals of the different cities.
Tim

Thank you for the info, Tim.

Yes, I had read a little bit a couple of days ago about the "home rule" issue, but I did not fully understand its implications until your simplified explanation (in fact, I did not realize that Charleston was not alone in instituting a CSF).

Please understand that this concept of "municipal taxes" or "city fees" is not lost on me, but it would be an entirely new experience for me as I have never yet lived or worked in any part of the country where such fees were assessed on a city or county level (the counties and/or municipalities would typically generate local revenue through property taxes and in some instances a city-imposed "sales tax" assessment tacked onto the state's base rate).

"Home Rule" sounds like an idea I think the average West Virginia resident would warm up to if they could be convincingly sold on the idea. (Good Luck, Huntington!)