Why no major cities in West Virginia? (Charleston, Huntington: dorms, university)
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You can probably take any adjacent state to WV and find two or three counties where the amount of flat land equals what you have along the Ohio River in WV. Sure there are spots that are "flat". Both Huntington and Parkersburg have this but even areas close to both towns have spots where the hills come right up to the river almost. Take a look at a topo map. It's very interesting to see the terrain of the state. Then compare that to surrounding states. I do think that Parkersburg has the best chance with the terrain around it to grow into something decent and I don't understand why it hasn't stopped losing population and more growth hasn't taken place there.
I need to get in touch with someone who understands GIS better than I do and have them produce a calculation of flat land in WV. Then we could compare that to other areas. I think it would produce some interesting results. And remember too that much of the flat land in WV is in serious floodplain areas also. I might even go out on a limb here and say that Jefferson and Berkley counties have more flat areas than the entire Ohio River valley on the WV side. That could be a stretch maybe.
Mecklenburg County NC alone is 546 sq miles. Huntington is 18 square miles with 2 of that being water so really 16 and then part of that is hills. Parkersburg is 12 sq miles...
Vermont is an interesting compare. This got brought up a couple of weeks back and Chrisscross309 provided some excellent insight in comparing WV to VT.
Here's the the giant problem. Vermont did not have a huge influx of manual laborers to feed a coal industry like WV had. Now that those jobs are gone the descendants of those folks are stuck in remote areas with nowhere to create any real industrial employment base that would be anything like what the coal industry provided in jobs and pay. So you end up with massive unemployment and drug use because the jobs are not there and they are not coming back. They just don't build factories or offices into the sides of hills. Boom and bust and aftermath. Vermont does not have to deal with that but WV does.
And I'm not certain but per square foot on a percentage basis Vermont might actually have more usable land than WV per person than WV.
There is a considerable amount of flat terrain in Vermont in the Lake Champlain area, but it is used almost exclusively for farming. They don't have an industrial tradition in that part of the country, except for what used to be textile mills, and nearly all of those are now in cheap labor countries. Flat land is not so much of an issue these days, because there is no heavy industry remaining after the globalists moved most of it to cheap labor countries too. Of far more importance is educational level of residents, average age, and proximity to largely populated urban centers. Much of West Virginia scores very poorly in those areas.
Thanks for more Vermont info. Too many residents of WV have absolutely no idea of how WV compares to other states in various categories.
And you brought up the topic of large urban areas of which WV has none and does not have the land to really ever have one. But for those small urban areas that WV does have what do they need to do in order to grow? Because to me I don't see a plan or strategy in place anywhere except maybe Morgantown(and that's a big maybe) to allow this to happen.
Thanks for more Vermont info. Too many residents of WV have absolutely no idea of how WV compares to other states in various categories.
And you brought up the topic of large urban areas of which WV has none and does not have the land to really ever have one. But for those small urban areas that WV does have what do they need to do in order to grow? Because to me I don't see a plan or strategy in place anywhere except maybe Morgantown(and that's a big maybe) to allow this to happen.
Our state government has repeatedly proven time and time again to live for the moment, and to value political pork over practicality. The northern areas have virtually learned to ignore it when it comes to development, because they have actually moved to counteract northern development efforts when asked to help, for some inexplicable reason. Most simply do not trust the Charleston bureaucracy, which is increasingly viewed as a sort of Bernie Madoff Ponzi scheme.
The Northern Panhandle, while absolutely loaded with potential due to the massive wet gas deposits there, is still reeling from the loss of it's heavy industry to cheap labor countries ... tens of thousands of high paying industrial jobs disappeared. State government refused to help... not one bit past temporary unemployment benefits. There is potential for a major comeback, but it will take a lot of time. The rest of northern WV benefits from proximity to Pittsburgh and the presence of a well established Land Grant, PhD level, research intensive university, which has attracted several satellite private and public research organizations. It also has, in general, a diverse economy and a comparatively well trained, younger, healthier work force.
The situation in the Eastern Panhandle is similar, but at the same time quite different. Their growth is spurred almost entirely by DC/Baltimore population spillover. it is essentially a large bedroom community for the enormous population giant to it's East.
None of these areas, even in the North, are likely to become mega population centers any time soon. I'm convinced that there will be relative prosperity in the North and East of the state though. Time will tell.
West Virginia has no major cities ??? Well Virginia doesn't have much either. Yes I know Richmond and Hampton Roads are metro areas of well over a million each and Roanoke is a pretty decent size too but they might as well be on the same par as Charleston and Huntington. Go out to California or Washington State or even Denver and Phoenix and ask them to name a city in either Virginia or West Virginia unless they know someone in the area the odds are they can't do it. Virginia Beach with a population of around 450K is still considered a "small seaside town" by many and not a major city and Richmond, Norfolk and Charleston are better known for cities like Richmond, California and Norfolk, Nebraska or Charleston, South Carolina than their Virginia or West Virginia counterparts. Wheeling and Roanoke were once known nationwide but no longer are. Huntington ?? When Soupy Sales died so did Huntington being well known too. I can remember Dionne Warwick on the game show Password Plus in the late 80s. The password was Virginia and nobody not even Ms. Warwick could name a single city in the state. It's not that much different today. Oh on the same game show the password was Kentucky and everyone knew Louisville.
Last edited by tantan1968; 04-17-2017 at 07:01 PM..
West Virginia has no major cities ??? Well Virginia doesn't have much either. Yes I know Richmond and Hampton Roads are metro areas of well over a million each and Roanoke is a pretty decent size too but they might as well be on the same par as Charleston and Huntington. Go out to California or Washington State or even Denver and Phoenix and ask them to name a city in either Virginia or West Virginia unless they know someone in the area the odds are they can't do it. Virginia Beach with a population of around 450K is still considered a "small seaside town" by many and not a major city and Richmond, Norfolk and Charleston are better known for cities like Richmond, California and Norfolk, Nebraska or Charleston, South Carolina than their Virginia or West Virginia counterparts. Wheeling and Roanoke were once known nationwide but no longer are. Huntington ?? When Soupy Sales died so did Huntington being well known too. I can remember Dionne Warwick on the game show Password Plus in the late 80s. The password was Virginia and nobody not even Ms. Warwick could name a single city in the state. It's not that much different today. Oh on the same game show the password was Kentucky and everyone knew Louisville.
Ive lived in Norfolk, Nebraska and thats where my moms side of the family is from. I can assure you that Norfolk, VA is by far more known. The Nebraska Norfolk has like 30k people and no suburbs, virtually surrounded by cornfields. the nearest towns are under 1k people and 10-15 miles away, Johnny Carson grew up there and thats their only claim to fame....Richmond, CA Im not as 100% about, but I know if you ask me (and I would guess most other people, especially other Southerners) "whats the first thing you think of when you hear the word Richmond?" Im gonna say "Richmond, VA- capital of the CSA in the Civil War"......I do agree on Charleston though, first thing I think of is South Carolina, not WV. Even after livin in WV for a few years now.....
and another tidbit about Norfolk, NE- people from there pronounce it Nor-Fork, Not Nor-Folk. Because it was originally settled as North Fork until a postal error made it Norfolk. When someone from the area hears someone else say "Nor-Folk" they will correct you, sorta like how ive heard here in WV people in Hurricane, WV will correct you if you say "Hurri-Cane" instead of "Hurri-Cun"
Something no one has mentioned.... while I wouldn't say for sure would give WV a "major" city... is that we should have a population of around 3.5 million vs. the current 1.8 million. This is due to the exodus of our residents starting in the 1950's that has continued for 60-70ish years. We have bled residents to other states and suffered from one of the largest "brain drains" of any state in the states. We were just recently ranked the least appealing state for Millennials in the USA, no danger of a mass immigration into our state from the now largest generation in US history.
This could be attributed to several factors... First our love affair with the coal industry... Not everyone wanted to be a coal miner, and considering coal is not going to be a 21st century industry and yet so many hold steadfast to the love for coal. Coal profits shipped out of state, the environment destroyed, and trapping us to the cyclical nature of coal prices and helpless against mechanization. We failed to diversify our economy and put those severance taxes into a fund to help diversification of our economy, programs to revamp our cities, improve our technology infrastructure, open our state up with highways, provide incentives for corporate investment and relocations, and invest in our youth and education like nearly every other fossil fuel state did.
We didn't (and will not) encourage or embrace new ideas... We just kept doing the same thing over and over expecting amazing results. The economy is global now, you can embrace it or as we did... hold fast to business as usual. We have missed a huge opportunity with Marijuana. Before you even ask, no I don't smoke. I did a little in college but it wasn't my thing. However, a significant proportion of the country does... from doctors and lawyers down to cashiers... We could be bringing in so much tax revenue while reducing burdensome oversight in our court and limited police forces. We now rank highest in Opioid overdoses and the smallest population participating in the workforce, and for generations we've ranked last in income, educational attainment, healthcare, well-being, happiest, and basically any positive poll.
We have currently elected a house and senate who think we can continue cutting spending and taxes and magically we will suddenly prosper... Nope... Not going to get political because yes I'm a Democrat... but the Democratic leadership in this state for the last 70-80 years got us in the shape we are now, with the current Republican leadership throwing the dirt on our grave.
The fact of the matter is, is that WV needs to change. We need to embrace NEW. New ideas, new people, new means of revenue, NEW. I hope this didn't come off as a rant... But I've spent the better part of my 30 years here, I moved back here after college in hopes of improving our state as an educator and local politician. But I just keep asking myself how much longer I can hold... I feel my grip slipping, and continually ask myself... "Why stay?" The answer is because I was born here, my family is here, and we have absolutely the best scenery on the East Coast. But as a member of the Millennial generation, who holds a masters degree, ideas about how to change our state for the better, and energy and drive... I feel like everything my generation wants is falling on deaf ears. No one wants to listen... The majority of kids I graduated with in high school from 2005 are not here, the vast majority of kids I graduated with from Marshall University in 2010 are no longer in the state. We are bleeding profusely, the band-aid approach of the past isn't going to work. If WV is to have a brighter future WE HAVE TO CHANGE.
WV will never have a major city in my lifetime, considering our political climate and aversion to change, but as I mentioned earlier if we wouldn't have bled our residents at the rate we have in the past... hypothetically this would be the populations of some of our cities if the residents didn't leave. This is of course hypothetical, only including people who left, average child birth, no immigration, average life span, suburb growth, archaic annexation laws, etc. City Stats are from 2014 census estimate. 1950 vs. 2017 without mass migration.
2014 2017 w/out mass migration / brain drain. + = growth between 2010 census and 2014 estimate
These are just some cities I picked out... doesn't take into account of growth just outside of the cities, as many of these cities have significant portions of their actual residents just outside of their city limits. But, it gives you an idea of what WV could have looked like...
Ive lived in Norfolk, Nebraska and thats where my moms side of the family is from. I can assure you that Norfolk, VA is by far more known. The Nebraska Norfolk has like 30k people and no suburbs, virtually surrounded by cornfields. the nearest towns are under 1k people and 10-15 miles away, Johnny Carson grew up there and thats their only claim to fame....Richmond, CA Im not as 100% about, but I know if you ask me (and I would guess most other people, especially other Southerners) "whats the first thing you think of when you hear the word Richmond?" Im gonna say "Richmond, VA- capital of the CSA in the Civil War"......I do agree on Charleston though, first thing I think of is South Carolina, not WV. Even after livin in WV for a few years now.....
and another tidbit about Norfolk, NE- people from there pronounce it Nor-Fork, Not Nor-Folk. Because it was originally settled as North Fork until a postal error made it Norfolk. When someone from the area hears someone else say "Nor-Folk" they will correct you, sorta like how ive heard here in WV people in Hurricane, WV will correct you if you say "Hurri-Cane" instead of "Hurri-Cun"
As strange as it is Richmond the well known factor is quite regional. If one is from the south and east coast, maybe Midwest it is well known but someplace like Phoenix or the west coast no so much that is where Richmond, California is well known. That may change with United airlines offering non-stop service to Denver from Richmond. Of course how long will United offer those flights is a question mark. Hampton Roads on the other hand seems to be losing it's non-stop fights to Denver.
You bring up Johnny Carson. Maybe that is why the folks on Password Plus couldn't think of any city in Virginia. Johnny Carson was still on TV at the time and it's well known the man had power, Maybe the mentioned of Norfolk, Virginia was concern enough that they may upset Johnny Carson and therefor would not be invited on The Tonight Show.
New is a mystical and scary word to many folks in West Virginia. To them, new is of the Boogeyman and can only hurt you if you allow it to enter your life.
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aeros71
New is a mystical and scary word to many folks in West Virginia. To them, new is of the Boogeyman and can only hurt you if you allow it to enter your life.
That is something that unfortunately plagues the human race in general. In all cases in any place or time in the world, those afraid of change made things difficult on themselves.
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