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There are so many good ideas just in this thread but the one idea that is missing is the one that makes people living in other places to want to move to West Virginia. It is only a demographic slice of the population that moves by choice and not by demand and many never move at all.
I do not think West Virginia can ever compete with the demand movers; those that their company says we are moving you and your family to West Virginia. We are never going to get those that never move. It may be obvious but in each state that number varies. West Virginia does not have a lot of that group because most West Virginians are demand mover - if they want a job, want a better school, want a better house, a better life, or just a better future - life demands that they move to achieve it.
So, we are left with those that choose to move and you need to know why they move and what they are looking for. There are countless sites you can dig through that data and regardless of which one or ones you sift through the data all says the same thing, West Virginia does not have what the choosers are choosing.
My take is that it is not a lack of jobs, or good schools or new housing or even a sprawling metropolis but rather it is the West Virginian we need to change. We need to change how we think, how we think of others and how we see the world and perhaps most importantly, how the world see us. West Virginians do not get good press and frankly we deserve all of the barbs tossed at us.
We are poorly educated, lack the basic understanding of civics, seem to exhibit little community spirit and when push comes to shove, we hate our fellow West Virginians because they live in another holler and you just know you can't trust those 'outsiders' over there!
I have said for years now the one thing that would make West Virginia an overnight heaven for the eastern half of the nation to enjoy would be to eliminate all of the West Virginians. People who do not think education is a dirty word, that Walmart is not Tiffany's and living on welfare is a lifestyle choice would be moving here and doing something with this beautiful and resource rich state because let's face it, West Virginians have done nothing with since we got our hands on it in 1863.
I can only assume you are speaking for yourself. I've experienced none of that. While I have lived here now for almost 40 years I was born and raised in Cleveland Ohio. I've never had anyone treat me poorly.
You've never been in these towns on a fall Friday night when the football team is playing if you have never experienced community spirit.
I can only assume you are speaking for yourself. I've experienced none of that. While I have lived here now for almost 40 years I was born and raised in Cleveland Ohio. I've never had anyone treat me poorly.
You've never been in these towns on a fall Friday night when the football team is playing if you have never experienced community spirit.
Serious, Tiffany's?
I think for many people it is what you become accustomed too. I travel the state weekly as my time now allows such excursions. I spend a lot of time away from the urban areas which I think of as islands. But, once you travel into some of these areas such as Clay, Roane, Boone, Logan etc. counties you will find a lot changes in what passes as a West Virginia.
I know a women that works at CAMC-General and on first meeting she comes off very polished, affable and mannerly, but spend some time with her, get her to reveal more of herself as she is outside the workplace and you will see a new set of qualities that line up with what I have been saying.
When I lived in Cincinnati, I had the good fortune of being in the hotel industry for many years and hotels are revolving doors for new hires and people that just fail to show up at some point in their employment. Because most of the work in them is unskilled service many job seekers that move to a large city often start in an industry like that. I cold spot a West Virginian or eastern Kentuckian as soon as they walked in the door. They dressed differently, they walked differently, they stood differently, they looked around the lobby differently and most of all they spoke differently even if they used the same vocabulary, which often they did not. These were not uneducated people, all or nearly all had been to high school and many had had some amount of college courses under their belt.
Occasionally I would hire one but not often. In an industry based on public perception, placing Ellie Mae in front of a guest is perhaps not the best choice. But, when those that were hired spent a year or so in the hotel, they would transform and the 'hillbilly' attributes would be shed. There would eventually be a conversation where he or she would reflect on the changes in their life since coming to Cincinnati and always -always- they would be somewhat ashamed and shocked at just how much of a hillbilly they were back then even though they were trying very hard to be cosmopolitan.
So far we are talking about those West Virginians that are willing to travel, willing to be more than they are and willing to even consider the idea that there is some room for improvement. There are West Virginians that are educated as well if not better and do not care because they have spent and plan to spend their entire life in West Virginia and wallow in their culture.
I think not noticing how people are in West Virginia even if you grew up in Cleveland is easy to explain.
Have you ever gone to someone's house and you had to go in, it might be for business or some other reason, but when the front door was opened and the air inside hit you the house reeked. Your sense are assaulted and your head spins, you might even feel a bit sick. but circumstances dictate you must go in and so you head on in. After 30 minutes you notice the odor less and after an hour, you can't smell anything. This is what happens to people that move to West Virginia and perhaps it is something has happened to you even if you travel back and forth from Cleveland to West Virginia. People adapt and it is always easiest to adapt to the lowest common denominator and it does not get more common than West Virginia.
I think for many people it is what you become accustomed too. I travel the state weekly as my time now allows such excursions. I spend a lot of time away from the urban areas which I think of as islands. But, once you travel into some of these areas such as Clay, Roane, Boone, Logan etc. counties you will find a lot changes in what passes as a West Virginia.
Maybe it's you? Maybe it's pretty common for people to not take to being called ignorant and uneducated?
Quote:
I know a women that works at CAMC-General and on first meeting she comes off very polished, affable and mannerly, but spend some time with her, get her to reveal more of herself as she is outside the workplace and you will see a new set of qualities that line up with what I have been saying.
You mean she was really nice until she got to know you?
Quote:
When I lived in Cincinnati, I had the good fortune of being in the hotel industry for many years and hotels are revolving doors for new hires and people that just fail to show up at some point in their employment. Because most of the work in them is unskilled service many job seekers that move to a large city often start in an industry like that. I cold spot a West Virginian or eastern Kentuckian as soon as they walked in the door. They dressed differently, they walked differently, they stood differently, they looked around the lobby differently and most of all they spoke differently even if they used the same vocabulary, which often they did not. These were not uneducated people, all or nearly all had been to high school and many had had some amount of college courses under their belt.
People in East Kentucky speak no different than those in Cincinnati.
Quote:
Occasionally I would hire one but not often. In an industry based on public perception, placing Ellie Mae in front of a guest is perhaps not the best choice. But, when those that were hired spent a year or so in the hotel, they would transform and the 'hillbilly' attributes would be shed. There would eventually be a conversation where he or she would reflect on the changes in their life since coming to Cincinnati and always -always- they would be somewhat ashamed and shocked at just how much of a hillbilly they were back then even though they were trying very hard to be cosmopolitan.
I took a little drive Tuesday. Went through Richwood, Marlington, Cass, Snowshoe, Elkins, Seneca Rocks, etc... Everytime I drive around the state, especially the tourism areas, I can't help but envision the possibilities. Part of what makes WV so great is the fact that we have outstanding scenery and places to visit, but it is a hidden gem not overrun by people or commercialization. With that being said, we still need to draw people in, revitalize some of our rural areas, and offer more than just the bare essentials for our guests. Take Seneca Rocks as an example. You'd think that a community that is literally at a crossroads of sightseers would feature a somewhat decent gas station. Well, they have a gas station but the pumps are older than I am. The station is in a very old building (which I like), but you wouldn't know you could get gas there unless you asked. The pumps are smashed up against the side of the building. Now, I am not proposing that Sheetz or Go Mart opens up a monstrous facility. But surely someone would have thought that a modern gas station would have paid off. I believe there is a functioning station a few miles south towards Spruce Knob, but it isn't anything special. I realize that people WV for our rustic feel, but somethings are too extreme. Haha
I believe that the area of WV you mention, including Seneca Rocks, Elkins, Snowshoe, etc., would be greatly enhanced by completing Corridor H all the way from I-79 to I-81 in Virginia. That would make it much easier for people from Virginia, Maryland, DC, & Pennsylvania to get to those recreation areas.
Unfortunately, completing Corridor H is not West Virginia's decision. Virginia has to complete their portion of it, and I've seen no indication that there is any likelihood that it will happen any time soon.
I believe that the area of WV you mention, including Seneca Rocks, Elkins, Snowshoe, etc., would be greatly enhanced by completing Corridor H all the way from I-79 to I-81 in Virginia. That would make it much easier for people from Virginia, Maryland, DC, & Pennsylvania to get to those recreation areas.
Unfortunately, completing Corridor H is not West Virginia's decision. Virginia has to complete their portion of it, and I've seen no indication that there is any likelihood that it will happen any time soon.
I too think Corridor H would be a benefit to that region but I had always assumed it was the financial jurisdiction of the ARC and that through that agency it then fell to each state to pick up their portion.
Maybe it's you? Maybe it's pretty common for people to not take to being called ignorant and uneducated?
You mean she was really nice until she got to know you?
People in East Kentucky speak no different than those in Cincinnati.
Yeah, I'm doubting it.
It could be me but if that it is true then all of the other people I knew in the Hotel industry in Cincinnati were just saying the same thing to make me feel good.
I generally have no bias towards someone when I first meet the. I let them determine if my first impression were warranted, she did not live up to the initial impression.
I do not know what part of Eastern Kentucky you have been too but they talk like SW West Virginia a whole lot more than the do SW Ohio.
Of course you are doubting it. You dislike anything that does not run inline with your thinking as though you have some personal stake in this. You don't. Neither do I. In fact, take us both out of the picture and let's go with a national perception, which is after all, what started this subtext. West Virginians are uneducated hillbillies and Ohioans are rednecks.
I would like to think we could get beyond that but in your mind, I and all of the rest of the nation are wrong. Must be nice to live in your world of one.
It could be me but if that it is true then all of the other people I knew in the Hotel industry in Cincinnati were just saying the same thing to make me feel good.
I generally have no bias towards someone when I first meet the. I let them determine if my first impression were warranted, she did not live up to the initial impression.
I do not know what part of Eastern Kentucky you have been too but they talk like SW West Virginia a whole lot more than the do SW Ohio.
Of course you are doubting it. You dislike anything that does not run inline with your thinking as though you have some personal stake in this. You don't. Neither do I. In fact, take us both out of the picture and let's go with a national perception, which is after all, what started this subtext. West Virginians are uneducated hillbillies and Ohioans are rednecks.
I would like to think we could get beyond that but in your mind, I and all of the rest of the nation are wrong. Must be nice to live in your world of one.
You are wrong......as I note......I'm from Cleveland....that's in Ohio. No one considered us rednecks.
I think for many people it is what you become accustomed too. I travel the state weekly as my time now allows such excursions. I spend a lot of time away from the urban areas which I think of as islands. But, once you travel into some of these areas such as Clay, Roane, Boone, Logan etc. counties you will find a lot changes in what passes as a West Virginia.
I know a women that works at CAMC-General and on first meeting she comes off very polished, affable and mannerly, but spend some time with her, get her to reveal more of herself as she is outside the workplace and you will see a new set of qualities that line up with what I have been saying.
When I lived in Cincinnati, I had the good fortune of being in the hotel industry for many years and hotels are revolving doors for new hires and people that just fail to show up at some point in their employment. Because most of the work in them is unskilled service many job seekers that move to a large city often start in an industry like that. I cold spot a West Virginian or eastern Kentuckian as soon as they walked in the door. They dressed differently, they walked differently, they stood differently, they looked around the lobby differently and most of all they spoke differently even if they used the same vocabulary, which often they did not. These were not uneducated people, all or nearly all had been to high school and many had had some amount of college courses under their belt.
Occasionally I would hire one but not often. In an industry based on public perception, placing Ellie Mae in front of a guest is perhaps not the best choice. But, when those that were hired spent a year or so in the hotel, they would transform and the 'hillbilly' attributes would be shed. There would eventually be a conversation where he or she would reflect on the changes in their life since coming to Cincinnati and always -always- they would be somewhat ashamed and shocked at just how much of a hillbilly they were back then even though they were trying very hard to be cosmopolitan.
So far we are talking about those West Virginians that are willing to travel, willing to be more than they are and willing to even consider the idea that there is some room for improvement. There are West Virginians that are educated as well if not better and do not care because they have spent and plan to spend their entire life in West Virginia and wallow in their culture.
I think not noticing how people are in West Virginia even if you grew up in Cleveland is easy to explain.
Have you ever gone to someone's house and you had to go in, it might be for business or some other reason, but when the front door was opened and the air inside hit you the house reeked. Your sense are assaulted and your head spins, you might even feel a bit sick. but circumstances dictate you must go in and so you head on in. After 30 minutes you notice the odor less and after an hour, you can't smell anything. This is what happens to people that move to West Virginia and perhaps it is something has happened to you even if you travel back and forth from Cleveland to West Virginia. People adapt and it is always easiest to adapt to the lowest common denominator and it does not get more common than West Virginia.
Wow. I don't like all the prevailing southern tier attitudes, but that is a fairly biased viewpoint you are espousing there. Claiming you can spot a "hillbilly" as soon as they walk in the room? Maybe the problem is with you, and not with them? Not everyone is the same, and lacking what you consider to be "polish" could mean that you're being pretentious, not that the other person is lacking in anything at all. Stereotypes are not healthy attitudes.
I was one of the posters that brought up stereotypes. They are unfortunately something we hear but I hoped fellow West Virginians would be the best to address what others say. It doesn't matter what part of WV you are from, we all get painted with the same brush from many outside the state. Growing up hearing it I see in hindsight it can feel like a form of bullying sometimes. It starts at such a young age and it's so pervasive.
To be truthful, statements like this coming from people who actually live here though concern me: "I have said for years now the one thing that would make West Virginia an overnight heaven for the eastern half of the nation to enjoy would be to eliminate all of the West Virginians."
Whaaat???? This is beyond a stereotype. I am judging on words only, not getting personal, but it struck me though, this post was such a paradox. It sounds as unyielding and unwilling to be educated about another side of the world as the people of Appalachia who get criticized for the exact same thing!
Growing up in a college town in WV we see a LOT of different types we adapt to. The rural parts here are nothing like the campus. It's not comparable IMO to an offensive scent we learn to tolerate- it's called life. Yes, there are the "People of WalMart" types but there are also the "Snobby Intellectuals of Academia" types too. Both can be portrayed negatively in their own right and seem very difficult to reason with! Since how people dress at WalMart was brought up, I just want to point out the irony that both groups (who are at totally different education and economic ends) have the same stereotype in common of bad clothing choices. It's not just the neon spandex pants. We have all seen the "frumpy" professor caricatures too. LOL It's silly and of course not always true but there.
I don't normally think that people who value higher education see themselves as "superior" but words like this make me wonder. Two of my friends who are engineers told me they were turned off by many in academia due to things like this they have heard. It's kind of strange to preach the value of an education and then put out this narrow world view. No wonder so many young people nationwide are resisting it. Making statements like this just perpetuates THAT negative stereotype.
Buildings, shopping centers and developments don't make up a town or state. Those are inanimate objects; it's the people who make up what we see and experience as a "local culture". I try to give people the benefit of the doubt, so I just think it's sad if others have had bad experiences with a few that have colored their view of all.
Maybe those who actually think these things just need to get out and meet more people here. There are a lot of positive experiences to be had that could temper any bad ones. It's important to be open to it though.
We all struggle with stereotypes BTW. My mother was from NJ and it may be "east coast" but she was ashamed of that. I heard NJ jokes all the time too. It's not just WV.
Last edited by motownnative; 05-20-2017 at 09:48 AM..
There is pointing out a cultural difference between Appalachia and the rest of the country, and then there is calling for the elimination/dispersal of entire group of people.
I am happy to see other posters reject the second opinion, while acknowledging the difference does impact the present and future of the state.
I think the issue needs to explained out a little better. Yes, there are people who will reject an area where "PJ pant wearing Walmart shopping" is Friday night entertainment. There are some people who could care less. I suspect most people are in the middle though. I don't mind seeing or being around the salt of the earth types when I shop, go to free entertainment, etc. I do mind it when it comes to the schools my children attend and my immediate neighbors. So, we are back to mitigation.
Those are fixable issues in most moderate/large sized Appalachian communities. Realistically, that is where your growth will be anyway, greater Mo-town, Martinsburg, etc.
Action item: When you pitch WV as a location for business, make sure the visitors see the middle to upper class neighborhoods, the private schools or best public ones, include in your sales pitch the realities of living in Appalachia (the visitors will be thinking about it no matter what,) and how existing residents take advantage of the positives like lower housing costs, access to nature, small pond to nuture kids, and so forth, and the negatives. Any state, county, or municipal outreach team should have at least one, if not more, transplants to WV on them, so there is a transplant perspective on the community that those being recruited can relate to.
Lastly, and this is hard to say, but at some point you can't let the attitudes of others let you have low self esteem about yourself and your community. If I worked at a place where Appalachian folk were singled out for scorn and rejection, there would be a reckoning real quick. It isn't right to single out any race or ethnic group based on stereotypes in a business environment, that includes poor white people too.
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