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I worked with more than a few when I was down there who literally quit their jobs/training so they could collect welfare.
We have made welfare living sustainable from generation to generation by adding to the myriad of benefits:
monthly stipend, food stamps, housing allowance, medical care with NO DEDUCTIBLES or Co-Pay, free cell phones, and maybe more but the point is: the benefits of welfare are no longer a temporary assistance program as it was initially intended. (this is nationwide, not just WV)
Some plants that have come to WV tout the workforce as being dedicated and hard-working. Toyota has expanded greatly in Putnam County. Hino (a division of Toyota) has expanded in Wood County and may to ready to do it again. These are two examples.
Just wanted to comment that even though I am from Morgantown I recognize the problems in the areas below Charleston that you accurately state and I wish sometimes we could send some of our growth down there. This won't be a popular sentiment with the nice people whose opinions I value on the Morgantown board but we have TOO much growth in too small of an area. This is not just my opinion. There are housing developments that are going up EVERYWHERE. Many are cheap, slapped together and combined with the fact there is no zoning they are being put in areas that don't have proper roads, infrastructure, drainage, etc.
To those in areas with little growth, well some of the growth we are experiencing is so haphazard that it can be described as "Be careful what you wish for!"
I know many posters on CD think Morgantown and it's economic development is the be all and end all but this is a link to a protest of some of this unregulated growth and people's dissatisfaction with it. https://www.change.org/p/earl-tombli...-west-virginia No one can understand why the developers aren't being forced to absorb some of these infrastructure costs. That's not a state problem - it could be fixed locally right now.
There are over 800 comments from current and former residents of Morgantown. Many more people than post here. Just wanted to give another POV that I don't hear a lot on this board but is very popular among residents.
There are basically 2 groups of folks here in Morgantown. One is the Old Guard, mostly comprised of people from families descended from glass plant and faucet company workers who never really knew prosperity because their root establishments were comparatively low paying, and due to the relative small size of the city in those days they long for a return to Barney Fife living. That is, far and away, the smaller of the two groups. They were long conditioned by relatively low economic conditions and second class treatment from state government to accept that as a normal fact of life.
The second group recognizes the value of prosperity. Mostly, they are transplants lured here by the area's tremendous potential, economic diversity, proximity to both large population centers and outstanding outdoor amenities. Those folks have moved here and made substantial personal investments in doing so. It is a much larger group than the other, and it resents the part of our city's past that in large part depended on fleecing students with high rents for sub standard housing, does little to maintain or improve their properties, and sits around whining, complaining, and doing everything they can possibly do to stop positive development.
While I agree with you that more planning should be in place for some of the developments, I disagree with you about the need to or not to maximize potential. I also disagree about who is responsible for providing the infrastructure, highways, street lighting on state roads, and so forth. That is absolutely the responsibility of our state government. Developers are responsible for connecting their developments to the state infrastructure. That is proper. They are not responsible for meeting the infrastructure needs of a growing and prosperous community. Our state does everything possible to throw money into developing infrastructure, most often where it is not needed. The neglect of our area in that regard is utterly shameful. It is the result of the extreme clan mentality found in parts of our state that has resulted in jealousy and negative mindsets. Rather than seeing our growth and prosperity as positive and a catalyst for the entire state, many in parts of the state see it as a threat to their hegemony.
There are few parts of West Virginia that wouldn't do double back flips, spend any amount necessary if they couldn't con the state into spending it for them, and beg, steal or borrow to have what you refer to as a problem. The Old Guard needs to wake up and recognize the value of what is happening here. It is what allows you to live and thrive. It affords your children with the opportunity to find work without having to relocate, and it assures a prosperous future. I respect Don Knotts. I actually knew his sister personally, but the days of Mayberry are gone forever. It's time for you folks to join in with everyone else and work together to keep making Morgantown a better place. It's going to happen with or without you, but it would be even better if everyone were on the same page.
There are basically 2 groups of folks here in Morgantown. One is the Old Guard, mostly comprised of people from families descended from glass plant and faucet company workers who never really knew prosperity because their root establishments were comparatively low paying, and due to the relative small size of the city in those days they long for a return to Barney Fife living. That is, far and away, the smaller of the two groups. They were long conditioned by relatively low economic conditions and second class treatment from state government to accept that as a normal fact of life.
The second group recognizes the value of prosperity. Mostly, they are transplants lured here by the area's tremendous potential, economic diversity, proximity to both large population centers and outstanding outdoor amenities. Those folks have moved here and made substantial personal investments in doing so. It is a much larger group than the other, and it resents the part of our city's past that in large part depended on fleecing students with high rents for sub standard housing, does little to maintain or improve their properties, and sits around whining, complaining, and doing everything they can possibly do to stop positive development.
While I agree with you that more planning should be in place for some of the developments, I disagree with you about the need to or not to maximize potential. I also disagree about who is responsible for providing the infrastructure, highways, street lighting on state roads, and so forth. That is absolutely the responsibility of our state government. Developers are responsible for connecting their developments to the state infrastructure. That is proper. They are not responsible for meeting the infrastructure needs of a growing and prosperous community. Our state does everything possible to throw money into developing infrastructure, most often where it is not needed. The neglect of our area in that regard is utterly shameful. It is the result of the extreme clan mentality found in parts of our state that has resulted in jealousy and negative mindsets. Rather than seeing our growth and prosperity as positive and a catalyst for the entire state, many in parts of the state see it as a threat to their hegemony.
There are few parts of West Virginia that wouldn't do double back flips, spend any amount necessary if they couldn't con the state into spending it for them, and beg, steal or borrow to have what you refer to as a problem. The Old Guard needs to wake up and recognize the value of what is happening here. It is what allows you to live and thrive. It affords your children with the opportunity to find work without having to relocate, and it assures a prosperous future. I respect Don Knotts. I actually knew his sister personally, but the days of Mayberry are gone forever. It's time for you folks to join in with everyone else and work together to keep making Morgantown a better place. It's going to happen with or without you, but it would be even better if everyone were on the same page.
There are not just "two types" of people in Morgantown. Geez....that type of black and white thinking is why posters can't have a productive dialogue. There are a lot more gray areas than that. Many of the people signing the petition I posted a link to do fall under your limited category of "transplants" btw. Many are not your "old guard" folks you bring up but it doesn't matter if they are. Their opinion counts too. If it doesn't, do you have other plans for those native to Morgantown? Maybe putting them on a "reservation" so they can be quiet while you do what's "best" for the community? If that's the case, I just hope we are tax free like the university. Well, hopefully we won't go down that road...maybe we can learn from history.
One signer I know is a professor who was born in India but has raised his family here for 20+ years and resents yet another housing development being put on top of him. It's ruining HIS quality of life (his words), not the one you have in your head that you think would be best and what he should be thankful for. If fact, one person who just got elected to City Council (who is not even from WV, California I think) did so with support of his protest to another large development off Dorsey Ave. Not everyone "loves" what is going on in Morgantown now. Deal with it.
I KNOW the state needs to give us our fair share for roads, I have posted ad nauseam myself about it, but that still doesn't mean developers aren't responsible for things like impact fees which every other civilized area requires in one form or another. It would help our situation a lot.
I am not going to continue this here as it's too topical to Morgantown, but just suggest you read some of the comments from some of your fellow disgruntled residents. It's why I posted a link. It speaks for itself. This may help you understand people's views without "boxing them in" to a category you feel comfortable with.
Last edited by motownnative; 05-14-2017 at 03:40 PM..
There are not just "two types" of people in Morgantown. Geez....that type of black and white thinking is why posters can't have a productive dialogue. There are a lot more gray areas than that. Many of the people signing the petition I posted a link to do fall under your limited category of "transplants" btw. Many are not your "old guard" folks you bring up but it doesn't matter if they are. Their opinion counts too. If it doesn't, do you have other plans for those native to Morgantown? Maybe putting them on a "reservation" so they can be quiet while you do what's "best" for the community? If that's the case, I just hope we are tax free like the university. Well, hopefully we won't go down that road...maybe we can learn from history.
One signer I know is a professor who was born in India but has raised his family here for 20+ years and resents yet another housing development being put on top of him. It's ruining HIS quality of life (his words), not the one you have in your head that you think would be best and what he should be thankful for. If fact, one person who just got elected to City Council (who is not even from WV, California I think) did so with support of his protest to another large development off Dorsey Ave. Not everyone "loves" what is going on in Morgantown now. Deal with it.
I KNOW the state needs to give us our fair share for roads, I have posted ad nauseam myself about it, but that still doesn't mean developers aren't responsible for things like impact fees which every other civilized area requires in one form or another. It would help our situation a lot.
I am not going to continue this here as it's too topical to Morgantown, but just suggest you read some of the comments from some of your fellow disgruntled residents. It's why I posted a link. It speaks for itself. This may help you understand people's views without "boxing them in" to a category you feel comfortable with.
I agree with this post- Morgantown does deserve some additional road funding which their elected state representatives should be working harder to secure (it doesn't seem like they are when I-79 between Anmoore and Bridgeport is widened but not highways in and around Morgantown), however both the city and Mon County also need to understand that rubber stamping every townhouse or apartment development someone brings to the table without asking for proffers to offset the added traffic is a recipe for a continued transportation disaster. The state isn't the one approving these huge developments off of roads that weren't designed to handle the traffic load- this isn't unique to Morgantown (I see it every day here in the DC area) but poor local planning is just that, poor local planning.
Last edited by NOVAmtneer82; 05-14-2017 at 06:08 PM..
There are not just "two types" of people in Morgantown. Geez....that type of black and white thinking is why posters can't have a productive dialogue. There are a lot more gray areas than that. Many of the people signing the petition I posted a link to do fall under your limited category of "transplants" btw. Many are not your "old guard" folks you bring up but it doesn't matter if they are. Their opinion counts too. If it doesn't, do you have other plans for those native to Morgantown? Maybe putting them on a "reservation" so they can be quiet while you do what's "best" for the community? If that's the case, I just hope we are tax free like the university. Well, hopefully we won't go down that road...maybe we can learn from history.
One signer I know is a professor who was born in India but has raised his family here for 20+ years and resents yet another housing development being put on top of him. It's ruining HIS quality of life (his words), not the one you have in your head that you think would be best and what he should be thankful for. If fact, one person who just got elected to City Council (who is not even from WV, California I think) did so with support of his protest to another large development off Dorsey Ave. Not everyone "loves" what is going on in Morgantown now. Deal with it.
I KNOW the state needs to give us our fair share for roads, I have posted ad nauseam myself about it, but that still doesn't mean developers aren't responsible for things like impact fees which every other civilized area requires in one form or another. It would help our situation a lot.
I am not going to continue this here as it's too topical to Morgantown, but just suggest you read some of the comments from some of your fellow disgruntled residents. It's why I posted a link. It speaks for itself. This may help you understand people's views without "boxing them in" to a category you feel comfortable with.
I read the comments. You are right ... there aren't just two types. That was simplistic, but my point is there are essentially the pro development folks, and the anti development folks. The development is going to happen in any case, most of it outside city limits as has been the case for years. As you pointed out, some are only against some developments. One would think it would be those who are protected by salary or pension would be the most status quo lot, but that is not the case. It is the Old Guard that is concerned that they will lose their ability to operate with minimal competition, and that the properties they have refused to properly maintain or improve will have less income generating ability with newer, better alternatives that are forcing the most vigorous opposition to anything positive being done within city limits.
The developers are going to win the battle in the long run, regardless of what anybody thinks about it. They have the money, and money talks. The folks who oppose downtown development spend hundreds of millions in development just outside city limits, and those folks will never allow zoning laws to be put in place in the county. That's something you will have to deal with. Most of those developments are actually quite nice ... Suncrest Town Centre for example. It is hugely successful. The townhouses Dan Ryan are building as sold before he finishes them, mostly because he is adept at choosing the right locations. Anything within a 10 minute drive of the medical establishments will be in demand. WVU Medicine has been adding hundreds of employees.
I read the comments. You are right ... there aren't just two types. That was simplistic, but my point is there are essentially the pro development folks, and the anti development folks. The development is going to happen in any case, most of it outside city limits as has been the case for years. As you pointed out, some are only against some developments. One would think it would be those who are protected by salary or pension would be the most status quo lot, but that is not the case. It is the Old Guard that is concerned that they will lose their ability to operate with minimal competition, and that the properties they have refused to properly maintain or improve will have less income generating ability with newer, better alternatives that are forcing the most vigorous opposition to anything positive being done within city limits.
The developers are going to win the battle in the long run, regardless of what anybody thinks about it. They have the money, and money talks. The folks who oppose downtown development spend hundreds of millions in development just outside city limits, and those folks will never allow zoning laws to be put in place in the county. That's something you will have to deal with. Most of those developments are actually quite nice ... Suncrest Town Centre for example. It is hugely successful. The townhouses Dan Ryan are building as sold before he finishes them, mostly because he is adept at choosing the right locations. Anything within a 10 minute drive of the medical establishments will be in demand. WVU Medicine has been adding hundreds of employees.
As I mentioned, when faced with a situation you can't fix, you do the best you can to try and mitigate it. If the perceived issue with Mon. County is a lack of state interest/funds in upgrading your road system, your county really should set forth a zoning plan to make sure the growth is located in places where the appropriate infrastructure already exists, or can be put in place most easily.
I know zoning is not the West Virginia way, but the growth model Mon county seems to be following: Allow developers to build where they want then expect the state to provide the infrastructure to connect it to existing development, is already being phased out in many states, like Maryland. I am not going to argue this is a great thing for my entire state, but it a direct result of decades of sprawling growth putting too much strain on the state's budget and transportation network.
I think you all provide strong evidence this existing model is not working out for you. As a visitor to Morgantown, I have to say the congestion there is well out of proportion for the size of your community, and will get worse if you don't start to steer the development into places that best fits the ability of your government to provide necessary services. Just my .02
I read the comments. You are right ... there aren't just two types. That was simplistic, but my point is there are essentially the pro development folks, and the anti development folks. The development is going to happen in any case, most of it outside city limits as has been the case for years. As you pointed out, some are only against some developments. One would think it would be those who are protected by salary or pension would be the most status quo lot, but that is not the case. It is the Old Guard that is concerned that they will lose their ability to operate with minimal competition, and that the properties they have refused to properly maintain or improve will have less income generating ability with newer, better alternatives that are forcing the most vigorous opposition to anything positive being done within city limits.
The developers are going to win the battle in the long run, regardless of what anybody thinks about it. They have the money, and money talks. The folks who oppose downtown development spend hundreds of millions in development just outside city limits, and those folks will never allow zoning laws to be put in place in the county. That's something you will have to deal with. Most of those developments are actually quite nice ... Suncrest Town Centre for example. It is hugely successful. The townhouses Dan Ryan are building as sold before he finishes them, mostly because he is adept at choosing the right locations. Anything within a 10 minute drive of the medical establishments will be in demand. WVU Medicine has been adding hundreds of employees.
I am glad you took the time to read some of the comments. I hear those same sentiments a lot from people whether they have lived here 5 years or 50 years. Whether or not you agree, it's nice when others can at least try to understand another POV.
I bolded the part you stated that must bother you also. That feeling of being out of control contributes to people's frustration and anger.
There are a lot of viable and growing parts of the state. We have had a lot of good things happen in Mgtn but there is nothing wrong with admitting error in the hope that other areas don't repeat it.
I worked with more than a few when I was down there who literally quit their jobs/training so they could collect welfare.
We have made welfare living sustainable from generation to generation by adding to the myriad of benefits:
monthly stipend, food stamps, housing allowance, medical care with NO DEDUCTIBLES or Co-Pay, free cell phones, and maybe more but the point is: the benefits of welfare are no longer a temporary assistance program as it was initially intended. (this is nationwide, not just WV)
Some plants that have come to WV tout the workforce as being dedicated and hard-working. Toyota has expanded greatly in Putnam County. Hino (a division of Toyota) has expanded in Wood County and may to ready to do it again. These are two examples.
I have heard this exact same thing about Toyota and it's workforce. Total opposite of the complaints we had from oil and gas companies (at least in our area) with difficulty hiring a local workforce and resorting to bringing in out of state workers.
These plants could locate anywhere it would seem and also have the appeal of hiring women workers too. Coal and O&G have very few women. Half the population can get left out. Our society has changed a lot since coal was big - for the first time in history singles outnumber married people. Out of the working poor, women are disproportionately in poverty, often with kids to support by themselves. Many are forced to stay on the welfare system to some degree not always due to laziness and generational dependence (as is the case for many others) but even when working as their jobs pay so little. Auto plants at least pay enough that they too would have a chance at a decent paying job with benefits.
As I mentioned, when faced with a situation you can't fix, you do the best you can to try and mitigate it. If the perceived issue with Mon. County is a lack of state interest/funds in upgrading your road system, your county really should set forth a zoning plan to make sure the growth is located in places where the appropriate infrastructure already exists, or can be put in place most easily.
I think you all provide strong evidence this existing model is not working out for you. As a visitor to Morgantown, I have to say the congestion there is well out of proportion for the size of your community, and will get worse if you don't start to steer the development into places that best fits the ability of your government to provide necessary services. Just my .02
West Virginia, not even a comparatively liberal area like Morgantown, will never institute a control model as you have in Maryland. Maryland is literally dominated by the liberals East of I-81. Without that inconvenient fact, I have a hunch you'd agree with Garrett County and Cumberland would be a lot more like Morgantown than like Baltimore or Chevy Chase.
We're talking about issues here regarding what helps and doesn't help, and it is very difficult to do that without crossing some lines, but a major part of our problem in Mon County is the notoriously weak representation we have in our state government. We could accomplish a lot simply by getting some new people taking up the cause, because they spend their capital for stuff that has very little benefit to our people. When we have such glaring need for infrastructure here, and state government wants to spend billions of dollars with hardly any of it being spent here, it is obvious that more than cutting back on our potential due to lack of support, we need to get some folks involved who can get us the support we need.
The growth model is working well for us. We need even more of it. We just have to start asserting ourselves in a way to bring about other positive aspects to go along with it. A state that can afford to spend $60 million building an expressway to an abandoned strip pit 20 miles from civilization in Lincoln County can certainly afford to provide us with the infrastructure we need to accommodate our growth.
Last edited by CTMountaineer; 05-14-2017 at 09:04 PM..
West Virginia, not even a comparatively liberal area like Morgantown, will never institute a control model as you have in Maryland. Maryland is literally dominated by the liberals East of I-81. Without that inconvenient fact, I have a hunch you'd agree with Garrett County and Cumberland would be a lot more like Morgantown than like Baltimore or Chevy Chase.
We're talking about issues here regarding what helps and doesn't help, and it is very difficult to do that without crossing some lines, but a major part of our problem in Mon County is the notoriously weak representation we have in our state government. We could accomplish a lot simply by getting some new people taking up the cause, because they spend their capital for stuff that has very little benefit to our people. When we have such glaring need for infrastructure here, and state government wants to spend billions of dollars with hardly any of it being spent here, it is obvious that more than cutting back on our potential due to lack of support, we need to get some folks involved who can get us the support we need.
The growth model is working well for us. We need even more of it. We just have to start asserting ourselves in a way to bring about other positive aspects to go along with it. A state that can afford to spend $60 million building an expressway to an abandoned strip pit 20 miles from civilization in Lincoln County can certainly afford to provide us with the infrastructure we need to accommodate our growth.
You can be thankful your state isn't dominated by folks with a political ideology and culture diametrically opposed to your own. I have no love for the way downstate folks treat Western Maryland, but if there is one thing downstate Maryland knows well, it is how sprawling ill planned growth can choke a community right as it starts to hit the critical mass necessary to bring up an entire region into relative prosperity.
WV doesn't have the money MD does to spend their way out of existing problems. If your county doesn't put thought into how you will grow, you will end up with huge headaches. You can complain all you want about how your state government treats you......we sure do . But, if you know the way things are, don't' believe they will change anytime soon, and are aware that underneath it all your state doesn't have the money to please everyone, you have to do what you can. That means thinking about enacting zoning laws. That's just my opinion. But, Morgantown's traffic issues are horrible for a city of its size, and will only get worse. Your growth model isn't working that well, the infrastructure is lagging well behind the growth curve with no support from your state to improve it. Complaining about it won't fix it, and pointing fingers doesn't create solutions. Yes, work the state hard for more money, but take the time now to figure out how you want your community to grow or you will regret it 15-20 years down the road.
PS I do agree Cumberland and Garrett County are much more like Morgantown, and WV in general, than anywhere in our "own state." The biggest difference between Western MD and NCWV is infrastructure. FWIW, most of my state sees us as you view Southern WV. They resent money going to us and not them because they are growing and successful, while we are not. They see money spent on us as money going down the drain because they view our economic and social problems as self-inflicted. I am still taken aback that this same general mentality exists in WV. You guys have so much in common in terms on need, the differences are really on the margin compared to your neighbors.
Last edited by westsideboy; 05-14-2017 at 10:36 PM..
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Well, hopefully we won't go down that road...maybe we can learn from history.
. But, if you know the way things are, don't' believe they will change anytime soon, and are aware that underneath it all your state doesn't have the money to please everyone, you have to do what you can. That means thinking about enacting zoning laws. That's just my opinion. But, Morgantown's traffic issues are horrible for a city of its size, and will only get worse. Your growth model isn't working that well, the infrastructure is lagging well behind the growth curve with no support from your state to improve it. Complaining about it won't fix it, and pointing fingers doesn't create solutions. Yes, work the state hard for more money, but take the time now to figure out how you want your community to grow or you will regret it 15-20 years down the road. 
