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View Poll Results: What is your stance on WV Statehood?
West Virginia should rejoin Virginia 5 16.13%
Sections of West Virginia should be annexed by neighboring states 4 12.90%
West Virginia should remain autonomous 22 70.97%
Voters: 31. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-01-2017, 06:01 PM
 
349 posts, read 195,516 times
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Only parts of WV need to join Virginia. All 5 surrounding states need to take a part of WV to spread out the burden of integrating WV into the other states. There is not enough land that can be used in WV to generate the type of revenue needed in WV that the coal lands that are useless now used to produce. There is no land to generate industry or really build much of anything to support a true state. WV unfortunately should have never been a state. The sooner people realize this maybe they can participate in the 21st century and get the prosperity that they deserve.
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Old 07-01-2017, 06:31 PM
 
9 posts, read 7,170 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmccul View Post
Never, ever in a billion years will this happen.

We've all heard that one before.
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Old 07-01-2017, 09:17 PM
 
9,401 posts, read 11,458,293 times
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It would take agreement by both state legislatures, as well as Congress for it to happen. Political hegemonies tend to take on a life of their own, and the big money folks that control them are loathe to see them disrupted. They circle the wagons to protect the status quo. Nobody would give up their fiefdom.

That's like suggesting that smaller areas outside of cities would allow themselves to be absorbed into the city, only you can multiply that times 100.
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Old 07-01-2017, 11:33 PM
 
617 posts, read 362,454 times
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Originally Posted by Bobilee View Post
Yes, Matt, and that reason was that we were hijacked by Wheeling. It is a great myth. Wheeling never was supported by West Virginians, ever, in their creation of the state. West Virginia was created in Washington, DC, without the consent of most West Virginians. Pierpont told Lincoln on Dec. 30, 1862, that "the Union men of West Va were not originally for the Union because of the new state." The idea to separate from Richmond was not popular. We could not rejoin after the war because of conditions in both states, and it would have continued the war in West Virginia after it had stopped elsewhere.

An artificial history was created to justify statehood, inflating greatly the number of Union soldiers from West Virginia, ignoring the thousands of West Virginians who were imprisoned by Francis Pierpont. Pierpont was not waging war on Virginia or North Carolina or the Confederacy, he was waging his war against West Virginians. The US Judge Advocate, Joseph Holt, complained to Seward that Pierpont's number of arrests was interfering with the US prisoner exchange program. When another Federal judge commented on the number of arrests by Wheeling, Joseph Darr wrote to him saying-

"Colonel Carothers, aide to Governor Peirpoint, informs me that you think we do a land-office business out here in the way of arrests. The fact is we ought to have a variety in the shape of a little hanging."

However indifferent Richmond was to the welfare of west Virginia it was never hostile to West Virginia as Pierpont and his group were.

So, yes, there was a reason for separation, but it is not the reason most people believe.




While everyone is entitled to an opinion and there are many on the events before, during and after the creation of West Virginia, your view is only that, an opinion. It is neither universal nor well-supported with facts. I am merely glad that West Virginia and Virginia did separate but I also do not share your opinion on the chain of events.


But, that being said. It would be better for West Virginia if it did merge with Virginia.


That was a hard thing to type out because on so many levels I do not desire it to come to pass.


My mountaineer spirit explodes at the idea but that is not the best way to judge this question.


There are so many divisions between West Virginians and Virginians that it would take generations - if ever - for them to be resolved. It was more than terrain that made us the two peoples that we are, it was so many more things that are just relevant today as they were in the 1800s.


What I love most about West Virginia would not be changed by a merger with Virginia - the very soil, water and air. This is - in my opinion - the most beautiful state in the nation and is for me, heaven on Earth. While many wonderful people live in West Virginia there are many that a full-blown stereotypes on the level of what Hollywood believes is an accurate portrayal.


Virginia has more of these people than West Virginia does but it is the percentage of the population that they comprise that makes them stick out in West Virginia. The good and best people of Virginia stay in Virginia. For the most part, that segment of the West Virginia populations moves to another state with more prospect for success and sometimes they return home to retire - like I did.


Go to many states and West Virginians are there, leading wonderful lives, successful in business, growing large, loving, comfortable if not affluent families and they often go home for the holidays singing Country Roads. You do not meet the same number of Virginians or even a handful. Virginians stay in Virginia and make it better, West Virginia is a place where successful people are from and never live. Of course there are exceptions but they are footnotes and not the rule.


Virginia offers a merged union many things but one thing I think West Virginia does better is state government. If the two states merged, Charleston would have to be retained as the capitol. It would do much to thwart the biggest divide in the two states in the first place - being ignored by tidewater Virginia in Richmond.


The one thing Virginia would give to West Virginia that is invaluable is a place for all those successful people to move too. West Virginians do not move to Virginia as a significant population because - well, we hate Virginia and Virginians and they seem just as emotional about West Virginians and West Virginia. But, all of those people would stay in the new state if they had the choice, and that would be good for everyone.


Virginia would gain culture. I know, everyone laughs at that. But think about it. What is Virginia known for besides the home of the Confederacy? As a historians I love the history of Virginia but as a culture, Dixie was killed and that was all Virginia was and has been nothing since then except an extended suburb of Washington D.C. and place where the USN calls home. The Navy and the Federal government is not a culture. West Virginia has culture down to its toe nails - pun intended, bare feet and all that.


Travel to Nebraska and tell someone you are from Virginia and they can't think of one thing beyond Washington D.C., maybe the navy and maybe the Civil War and if they think of the Civil War, they may think of a Virginians as being racist.


The same Nebraskan being introduced to a West Virginian is going to have a spectrum of impressions, some not too nice and some very nice. but, even if there were no nice ones, West Virginia has an identity as a people and a culture, Virginia does not.


Finally, the name of the state would have to be something else. If it is made Virginia, Virginians will treat West Virginians as beggars and West Virginians will not drop the "WEST" in their self-description. It can't be West Virginia because it would be west of what and Virginians with their pride would not approve it. I am not sure what it would be called, but it can't be called West Virginia or Virginia.


It would take more years to be at peace than I have left in my life time for this to be a natural thing, but it has taken over 200 years to get someone to ask this question and people not put lead shot in his butt for doing so.


It will not happen, but it has benefits to both and while I think West Virginia would gain a lot, I think Virginia would gain the most. Culture is everything.
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Old 07-02-2017, 12:15 AM
 
9 posts, read 7,170 times
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^ For the record, most people I grew up with never hated Virginia. Quite the contrary where most of my peers in high school praised the other states they planned on moving to. Never really saw a strong passion for identity out here. But hey, this is all anecdotal right?

l will agree to some extent though, the state is beautiful and was even once nicknamed little Switzerland.
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Old 07-02-2017, 05:22 AM
 
349 posts, read 195,516 times
Reputation: 187
It's very painful for me to say that WV should no longer be a state. And it took me a real long time to get to this point. But the pain of the people living in WV and the pain that I see living here everyday...I've come to the realization that WV will never be able to provide its people with a prosperous existence. We just don't have enough land to generate a true economy. Our terrain that makes us who we are is now killing us. You can't build prosperity on our kind of terrain. But the states all around us can take pieces of this terrain and help manage it. The reality is that WV cannot compete with any state in terms of land usage and cost for development. We need to swallow our pride as awful as that is and do what's right for our people and our future.
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Old 07-02-2017, 06:15 AM
 
9,401 posts, read 11,458,293 times
Reputation: 1507
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caden Grace View Post
While everyone is entitled to an opinion and there are many on the events before, during and after the creation of West Virginia, your view is only that, an opinion. It is neither universal nor well-supported with facts. I am merely glad that West Virginia and Virginia did separate but I also do not share your opinion on the chain of events.


But, that being said. It would be better for West Virginia if it did merge with Virginia.


That was a hard thing to type out because on so many levels I do not desire it to come to pass.


My mountaineer spirit explodes at the idea but that is not the best way to judge this question.


There are so many divisions between West Virginians and Virginians that it would take generations - if ever - for them to be resolved. It was more than terrain that made us the two peoples that we are, it was so many more things that are just relevant today as they were in the 1800s.


What I love most about West Virginia would not be changed by a merger with Virginia - the very soil, water and air. This is - in my opinion - the most beautiful state in the nation and is for me, heaven on Earth. While many wonderful people live in West Virginia there are many that a full-blown stereotypes on the level of what Hollywood believes is an accurate portrayal.


Virginia has more of these people than West Virginia does but it is the percentage of the population that they comprise that makes them stick out in West Virginia. The good and best people of Virginia stay in Virginia. For the most part, that segment of the West Virginia populations moves to another state with more prospect for success and sometimes they return home to retire - like I did.


Go to many states and West Virginians are there, leading wonderful lives, successful in business, growing large, loving, comfortable if not affluent families and they often go home for the holidays singing Country Roads. You do not meet the same number of Virginians or even a handful. Virginians stay in Virginia and make it better, West Virginia is a place where successful people are from and never live. Of course there are exceptions but they are footnotes and not the rule.


Virginia offers a merged union many things but one thing I think West Virginia does better is state government. If the two states merged, Charleston would have to be retained as the capitol. It would do much to thwart the biggest divide in the two states in the first place - being ignored by tidewater Virginia in Richmond.


The one thing Virginia would give to West Virginia that is invaluable is a place for all those successful people to move too. West Virginians do not move to Virginia as a significant population because - well, we hate Virginia and Virginians and they seem just as emotional about West Virginians and West Virginia. But, all of those people would stay in the new state if they had the choice, and that would be good for everyone.


Virginia would gain culture. I know, everyone laughs at that. But think about it. What is Virginia known for besides the home of the Confederacy? As a historians I love the history of Virginia but as a culture, Dixie was killed and that was all Virginia was and has been nothing since then except an extended suburb of Washington D.C. and place where the USN calls home. The Navy and the Federal government is not a culture. West Virginia has culture down to its toe nails - pun intended, bare feet and all that.


Travel to Nebraska and tell someone you are from Virginia and they can't think of one thing beyond Washington D.C., maybe the navy and maybe the Civil War and if they think of the Civil War, they may think of a Virginians as being racist.


The same Nebraskan being introduced to a West Virginian is going to have a spectrum of impressions, some not too nice and some very nice. but, even if there were no nice ones, West Virginia has an identity as a people and a culture, Virginia does not.


Finally, the name of the state would have to be something else. If it is made Virginia, Virginians will treat West Virginians as beggars and West Virginians will not drop the "WEST" in their self-description. It can't be West Virginia because it would be west of what and Virginians with their pride would not approve it. I am not sure what it would be called, but it can't be called West Virginia or Virginia.


It would take more years to be at peace than I have left in my life time for this to be a natural thing, but it has taken over 200 years to get someone to ask this question and people not put lead shot in his butt for doing so.


It will not happen, but it has benefits to both and while I think West Virginia would gain a lot, I think Virginia would gain the most. Culture is everything.
You actually believe our state government is better than Virginia's state government? Interesting.

As to the attitude of much of Virginia relating to West Virginians, aside from the DC/Baltimore area and the Eastern Panhandle of West Virginia, and the northern half of the state, most southern West Virginians are descended from the Scots Irish, and the majority of Virginia lowlanders are 500 year descendants of the English planter class. They don't come right out and say it, but they have always considered themselves a better class of people. Sometimes they can't hide those feelings. They feel the same way about the Virginians who inhabit the Virginia Appalachians too.
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Old 07-02-2017, 10:23 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia
1,300 posts, read 2,642,270 times
Reputation: 1404
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caden Grace View Post
While everyone is entitled to an opinion and there are many on the events before, during and after the creation of West Virginia, your view is only that, an opinion. It is neither universal nor well-supported with facts. I am merely glad that West Virginia and Virginia did separate but I also do not share your opinion on the chain of events.
Sorry Caden, but what I stated is provable, the facts support me. All of the votes under the Pierpont government were low minority votes, it is a matter of historical record for anyone to see. They never had the support of West Virginia as a whole. Most of West Virginia's delegates to the secession convention in Richmond signed on to the secession ordinance, 29 of the 49 delegates returned to Richmond after the May vote and signed the ordinance. Their signatures are on display in Richmond.

In the latest book on "West Virginia and the Civil War" historian Mark E. Snell referred to the statehood vote as a "fiasco".

I agree with CTM, reunion would never happen, too many people would have to give up their perqs and power to make it happen, and it was a power grab in the first place that made the state.
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Old 07-02-2017, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Morgantown, WV (Native Texan)
809 posts, read 627,272 times
Reputation: 351
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caden Grace View Post
While everyone is entitled to an opinion and there are many on the events before, during and after the creation of West Virginia, your view is only that, an opinion. It is neither universal nor well-supported with facts. I am merely glad that West Virginia and Virginia did separate but I also do not share your opinion on the chain of events.


But, that being said. It would be better for West Virginia if it did merge with Virginia.


That was a hard thing to type out because on so many levels I do not desire it to come to pass.


My mountaineer spirit explodes at the idea but that is not the best way to judge this question.


There are so many divisions between West Virginians and Virginians that it would take generations - if ever - for them to be resolved. It was more than terrain that made us the two peoples that we are, it was so many more things that are just relevant today as they were in the 1800s.


What I love most about West Virginia would not be changed by a merger with Virginia - the very soil, water and air. This is - in my opinion - the most beautiful state in the nation and is for me, heaven on Earth. While many wonderful people live in West Virginia there are many that a full-blown stereotypes on the level of what Hollywood believes is an accurate portrayal.


Virginia has more of these people than West Virginia does but it is the percentage of the population that they comprise that makes them stick out in West Virginia. The good and best people of Virginia stay in Virginia. For the most part, that segment of the West Virginia populations moves to another state with more prospect for success and sometimes they return home to retire - like I did.


Go to many states and West Virginians are there, leading wonderful lives, successful in business, growing large, loving, comfortable if not affluent families and they often go home for the holidays singing Country Roads. You do not meet the same number of Virginians or even a handful. Virginians stay in Virginia and make it better, West Virginia is a place where successful people are from and never live. Of course there are exceptions but they are footnotes and not the rule.


Virginia offers a merged union many things but one thing I think West Virginia does better is state government. If the two states merged, Charleston would have to be retained as the capitol. It would do much to thwart the biggest divide in the two states in the first place - being ignored by tidewater Virginia in Richmond.


The one thing Virginia would give to West Virginia that is invaluable is a place for all those successful people to move too. West Virginians do not move to Virginia as a significant population because - well, we hate Virginia and Virginians and they seem just as emotional about West Virginians and West Virginia. But, all of those people would stay in the new state if they had the choice, and that would be good for everyone.


Virginia would gain culture. I know, everyone laughs at that. But think about it. What is Virginia known for besides the home of the Confederacy? As a historians I love the history of Virginia but as a culture, Dixie was killed and that was all Virginia was and has been nothing since then except an extended suburb of Washington D.C. and place where the USN calls home. The Navy and the Federal government is not a culture. West Virginia has culture down to its toe nails - pun intended, bare feet and all that.


Travel to Nebraska and tell someone you are from Virginia and they can't think of one thing beyond Washington D.C., maybe the navy and maybe the Civil War and if they think of the Civil War, they may think of a Virginians as being racist.


The same Nebraskan being introduced to a West Virginian is going to have a spectrum of impressions, some not too nice and some very nice. but, even if there were no nice ones, West Virginia has an identity as a people and a culture, Virginia does not.


Finally, the name of the state would have to be something else. If it is made Virginia, Virginians will treat West Virginians as beggars and West Virginians will not drop the "WEST" in their self-description. It can't be West Virginia because it would be west of what and Virginians with their pride would not approve it. I am not sure what it would be called, but it can't be called West Virginia or Virginia.


It would take more years to be at peace than I have left in my life time for this to be a natural thing, but it has taken over 200 years to get someone to ask this question and people not put lead shot in his butt for doing so.


It will not happen, but it has benefits to both and while I think West Virginia would gain a lot, I think Virginia would gain the most. Culture is everything.

I agree with most of what you say, but Im sure most people with a basic education will also remember Virginia as one of the original 13 colonies and home to so many of the founding fathers. Revolutionary war battles, including the most important one of all, Yorktown! and then theres always one of the greatest sports movies ever made, Remember the Titans!!
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Old 07-02-2017, 11:03 AM
 
617 posts, read 362,454 times
Reputation: 283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobilee View Post
Sorry Caden, but what I stated is provable, the facts support me. All of the votes under the Pierpont government were low minority votes, it is a matter of historical record for anyone to see. They never had the support of West Virginia as a whole. Most of West Virginia's delegates to the secession convention in Richmond signed on to the secession ordinance, 29 of the 49 delegates returned to Richmond after the May vote and signed the ordinance. Their signatures are on display in Richmond.

In the latest book on "West Virginia and the Civil War" historian Mark E. Snell referred to the statehood vote as a "fiasco".

I agree with CTM, reunion would never happen, too many people would have to give up their perqs and power to make it happen, and it was a power grab in the first place that made the state.




There are many facts in this story and you are only using a tiny fraction, excluding many that counter your stance. This is a complicated issue debated by hundreds of historians and you seem to think you have the answer in a few sentences. Good luck with that. I admire your resolution but you are not even close to explaining the total chain of events that led to the situation. When I post my beliefs I do not make the mistake of displaying them as fact and then berating others that disagree. You might learn from that.
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