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Old 04-09-2018, 05:51 PM
 
Location: Huntington, WV
4,197 posts, read 6,970,931 times
Reputation: 774

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Quote:
This isnít the first time lawmakers have tried to tie collegesí funding to their performance. About five years ago, at the height of the Great Recession, lawmakers pushed for the idea but never followed through with concrete plans. The idea came back in 2017, when lawmakers decided late in the legislative session to include language in a bill to requiring the HEPC to develop a formula.
https://www.wvnews.com/news/wvnews/t...442bf3a71.html
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Old 04-10-2018, 06:09 AM
 
400 posts, read 222,175 times
Reputation: 213
Still don't understand what HEPC does. There needs to be more centralization through them to remove some of the redundancies throughout the state. A good step would be consolidation of CTC governance. Way too many people doing way too little making way too much through out WV in higher ed admin. Don't need all of this CTC upper management duplication. Same can be said for the smaller 4 year schools too. Other states have consolidated their CTC's to save money and remove the bloat and at the same time become more effective at creating a workforce too. WV is good at creating little kingdoms of nepotism and crony culture where maintaining the kingdom becomes more important than the education of the peasants.
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Old 04-10-2018, 05:41 PM
 
Location: Huntington, WV
4,197 posts, read 6,970,931 times
Reputation: 774
The CTCs used to be under one of the 4 year institutions which did seem to help with the consolidation. Then Manchin wanted to separate them out which created another layer of bureaucracy and difficulty making sure CTC classes were accepted at the 4 year institutions. The WVHEPC provides a pretty good source for data on the state schools. They were intended to be a group to help remove some of the politics from higher ed but it still plays a role any way. A few years ago when Marshall wanted to add the pharmacy school, one of the other pharmacy schools in the state used their connections with the HEPC to waste $10,000 in taxpayer money on a study hoping it would say that the new school was unnecessary. The study actually showed that the Marshall School was warranted but even if it hadn't, they couldn't have stopped the creation of the school. It was such a waste.

Here's the best I can say about the what the WVHEPC does from their site:

Quote:
About the Higher Education Policy Commission
The Commission develops and oversees a public policy agenda for West Virginia’s four-year colleges and universities. Comprised of a 10-member board, the Commission works with institutions on accomplishing their missions and carrying out state procedures. A source of support for institutions and students, the Commission’s work includes academic affairs, administrative services, finance and facilities, financial aid, health sciences, human resources, legal services, policy and planning, science and research, and student affairs.
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Old 04-12-2018, 08:30 AM
 
661 posts, read 395,367 times
Reputation: 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbailey1138 View Post
The CTCs used to be under one of the 4 year institutions which did seem to help with the consolidation. Then Manchin wanted to separate them out which created another layer of bureaucracy and difficulty making sure CTC classes were accepted at the 4 year institutions. The WVHEPC provides a pretty good source for data on the state schools. They were intended to be a group to help remove some of the politics from higher ed but it still plays a role any way. A few years ago when Marshall wanted to add the pharmacy school, one of the other pharmacy schools in the state used their connections with the HEPC to waste $10,000 in taxpayer money on a study hoping it would say that the new school was unnecessary. The study actually showed that the Marshall School was warranted but even if it hadn't, they couldn't have stopped the creation of the school. It was such a waste.

Here's the best I can say about the what the WVHEPC does from their site:



I was under the impression that WVHEPC came into being to add a layer protection to Marshall and a few other small universities around the state from being absorbed into a single higher education foundation under WVU. There was a push 10-20 years to establish a single state university system under the control of WVU. All of the small colleges screamed and people at Marshall reportedly fainted at the prospect of being the rule of Morgantown. it made for some good chuckles to watch their faces but it got political really fast and a lot of tap dancing and ideas poured out to keep the old system.


But the legislature has done a really poor job with CTC tier of education imo. Bridge Engineering and Kanawha Valley CTC were forced to merged and it has killed them both. The original faculty for both has moved on and the morale at the new iteration Bridge Valley CTC is abysmal. They can't pay their bills and have almost been evicted - twice and are now thinking of moving into the old Staats Hospital on Charleston's Westside war zone neighborhood.


The truth is West Virginia, losing population, needs fewer layers in higher education and certainly fewer institutions. The state could get by with just WV State University, WVU and Marshall. Private institutions could be on their own. Then those three universities could set up local community campuses based on financial logic. This would eliminate the CTC system and WVHEPC.
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Old 04-12-2018, 09:26 AM
 
400 posts, read 222,175 times
Reputation: 213
Moving into the Staats building could really help invigorate that part of town. There are so many considerations to take into account though. Leaving the tech park just to thumb your nose at Hepc over a bad deal is a bad idea if you get into another bad deal. I’m sure that old building has lots of issues and where to park the students SAFELY and how to get them to the school SAFELY needs to be priority number one.
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Old 04-12-2018, 10:11 AM
 
9,464 posts, read 11,680,912 times
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This is far from a done deal. The HEPC is dominated and led by people who are not friendly toward WVU, but there will be some very strong pushback from this. That rip off won't take place. There are tens of thousands of very active WVU alumni in this state.
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Old 04-12-2018, 11:26 AM
 
9,464 posts, read 11,680,912 times
Reputation: 1534
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caden Grace View Post
I was under the impression that WVHEPC came into being to add a layer protection to Marshall and a few other small universities around the state from being absorbed into a single higher education foundation under WVU. There was a push 10-20 years to establish a single state university system under the control of WVU. All of the small colleges screamed and people at Marshall reportedly fainted at the prospect of being the rule of Morgantown. it made for some good chuckles to watch their faces but it got political really fast and a lot of tap dancing and ideas poured out to keep the old system.


But the legislature has done a really poor job with CTC tier of education imo. Bridge Engineering and Kanawha Valley CTC were forced to merged and it has killed them both. The original faculty for both has moved on and the morale at the new iteration Bridge Valley CTC is abysmal. They can't pay their bills and have almost been evicted - twice and are now thinking of moving into the old Staats Hospital on Charleston's Westside war zone neighborhood.


The truth is West Virginia, losing population, needs fewer layers in higher education and certainly fewer institutions. The state could get by with just WV State University, WVU and Marshall. Private institutions could be on their own. Then those three universities could set up local community campuses based on financial logic. This would eliminate the CTC system and WVHEPC.
There are a number of reasons out little state, which is smaller in size in terms of population than even one large city, is always fighting it out with Mississippi for who gets to come in 50th. and usually winning the battle. Our incredibly inefficient higher education structure is prominent in that situation. We have 10 teachers colleges ... seemingly one every other Interstate exit, and support those with their administrations and bureaucratic structures, and two different political hack hiding higher education boards ...one for the 4 year and higher schools, and another for the community colleges, some of which were illogically ripped off from sponsoring institutions to create the redundant boards hiding, among others, the former governor's wife who is "President" of one of them. It is hugely expensive and wasteful to have the current structure in place. Iowa, for example, has twice the population and half again the land area of West Virginia and they support a total of 3 higher education systems.

The Pennsylvania system based on a Penn State model makes perfect sense for out little state. We could use maybe 5 teachers colleges ... EP, NP, Kanawha, Bluefield, and Fairmont. The remainder should be 2 year feeder schools. Support that structure along with the regional university in Huntington and the national university in Morgantown, and you'd have a far more efficient and useful structure. There is no logic at all in supporting 2 schools 11 miles apart in Concord and Bluefield.
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Old 04-12-2018, 01:13 PM
 
43 posts, read 22,712 times
Reputation: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbailey1138 View Post
What is the phrase I'm looking for....law of unintended consequences.

Tying funding to student performance, while also enforcing a land grant institution's obligation of accepting nearly any instate student regardless of prior educational performance couldn't possibly lead to any negative unintended consequences!
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Old 04-12-2018, 01:17 PM
 
400 posts, read 222,175 times
Reputation: 213
They should let WVU and Marshall run the 4 year school segment and put the CTC’s under one umbrella.
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Old 04-12-2018, 03:08 PM
 
661 posts, read 395,367 times
Reputation: 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnNada View Post
Moving into the Staats building could really help invigorate that part of town. There are so many considerations to take into account though. Leaving the tech park just to thumb your nose at Hepc over a bad deal is a bad idea if you get into another bad deal. Iím sure that old building has lots of issues and where to park the students SAFELY and how to get them to the school SAFELY needs to be priority number one.


Moving to Staats will have two big issues for BVCTC, parking and crime. There is no place to park over there that does not require a walk of 2 or more blocks. During the day even those options are limited and would require a further walk. Criminals will be counting on students lack alertness and many cars will be broken into if not stolen and the students will likely come under some sort of direct criminal pressure at least once per student per semester. I do not see this idea as a good move at all, but hey, it would be consistent with past choices facing BVCTC.
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