Hillbilly Druggies (Man: estate, work, medical)

[Hinton Bound]

Originally Posted by italianbluesboy

Obesity and cigarettes don't cause people to steal and rob - drugs do. You seem to be very defensive of illegal drug use.Is it a "right" to abuse oxycontin or heroin or crack? Last I checked that was illegal, not a "right". And it has caused WV to go downhill. I don't know when Hinton bound got to WV, but I have been here since I was born here, so I know that it is worse.

Yeah, drugs "cause" people to steal. Just like guns "cause" people to kill? Or spoons "cause" Rosie O'Donnel to be fat? Seem's it is you who is ready for Amsterdam. It's a Socialist country, you'd fit right in! Heck your tag is Italian! I lived there for 3 years, they too are Socialist- perhaps you should see how socialism feels before you insist on it here. You'll want to read my post's more closely, you'll see I'm defensive of an individuals right to live their life in the way they chose, not the way you choose for them. The insinuation of my illegal drug use isn't lost though. Nor is the "I've been here longer, so I'm right". Great logical defense of your position on the issue.

I can see you're up against the limits of your coherency in this debate, so I suppose it's best to end it here.

[citybilly]

So to sum it up, what do we do about the hard drug epidemic? Personally, I think that when you get more than 2 people together, there will have to be sacrifices for the greater good. It's part of the cost for 'freedom', and we have always been that way. We constantly change where we draw the line. it used to be ok to beat your kids, drive drunk,burn your trash, discriminate based on race, etc etc, but we have decided it is not ok anymore. We still allow fat people and smokers, for now,( but we are working on bullying them into submission by ridiculing and ostracizing them.) do we draw the line at junkies and meth/crack/oxy addicts? I say yes. I don't want them behind the wheel, or breaking into my car. They are a public menace. And for Mark, let me say I respect your opinion but I think we have a socialist component to our country, plain and simple.I don't see that as a bad thing, it's the abuse of it that is bad. Thousands of mexicans who still live in mexico, but get welfare and medicare. GWBush uses our tax dollars to invade Iraq.

[italianbluesboy]

Originally Posted by citybilly

So to sum it up, what do we do about the hard drug epidemic? Personally, I think that when you get more than 2 people together, there will have to be sacrifices for the greater good. It's part of the cost for 'freedom', and we have always been that way. We constantly change where we draw the line. it used to be ok to beat your kids, drive drunk,burn your trash, discriminate based on race, etc etc, but we have decided it is not ok anymore. We still allow fat people and smokers, for now,( but we are working on bullying them into submission by ridiculing and ostracizing them.) do we draw the line at junkies and meth/crack/oxy addicts? I say yes. I don't want them behind the wheel, or breaking into my car. They are a public menace. And for Mark, let me say I respect your opinion but I think we have a socialist component to our country, plain and simple.I don't see that as a bad thing, it's the abuse of it that is bad. Thousands of mexicans who still live in mexico, but get welfare and medicare. GWBush uses our tax dollars to invade Iraq.

This is a step in the positive direction for problem solving.

Originally Posted by Hinton Bound

Yeah, drugs "cause" people to steal. Just like guns "cause" people to kill? Or spoons "cause" Rosie O'Donnel to be fat? Seem's it is you who is ready for Amsterdam. It's a Socialist country, you'd fit right in! Heck your tag is Italian! I lived there for 3 years, they too are Socialist- perhaps you should see how socialism feels before you insist on it here. You'll want to read my post's more closely, you'll see I'm defensive of an individuals right to live their life in the way they chose, not the way you choose for them. The insinuation of my illegal drug use isn't lost though. Nor is the "I've been here longer, so I'm right". Great logical defense of your position on the issue.

I can see you're up against the limits of your coherency in this debate, so I suppose it's best to end it here.

I started this thread to bring awareness of the problems that drugs and crime have brought to WV, and for people to discuss positive solutions to the problem. Mark nobody asked you to stick your neck out like you have. You have no positive solutions for the problem except to draw the conclusion that Rosie stuffing her face is a comparable to people stealing around Hinton/Oceana/Beckley/Princeton/Logan to support their drug habits and/or greed. Why don't you move on to Nevada where you can excercise your "anything goes everyman for himself" civil liberties? I think I speak for most law abiding, honest, working West Virginians when I say they want to raise their families in a safe and orderly environment. These people get up early, get their kids off to school, then go put in a hard day's work at stores or the mines or the sawmill or hospital or whatever, and they want realistic solutions to very real problems, not naive ideologies from some out-of-stater that comes here to save our civil liberties and our mountains and streams and eat granola and have a toke and raft down the river. End of my contributions to this deteriorating thread.

[David Kennedy]

Chairman Mao had the solution for the drug problem/culture of China...he solved the problem with a socialistic solution in about 2 years...did it permanently without raising taxes at all...no problemo.

[Hinton Bound]

Originally Posted by italianbluesboy

...not naive ideologies from some out-of-stater that comes here to save our civil liberties and our mountains and streams and eat granola and have a toke and raft down the river.

Once again, you've missed the mark IBB. My point in all of this, particularly in the drug testing/use vein is this: We as a society pay around 19 Billion dollars a year in the "War on Drugs". We've been paying it for the last 25 years. Drug use has increased everyone of those years. It's Econ 101- supply and demand. It's why Prohibition failed.
My objective is to make you realize that making more laws/regulation will not help. We will be taxed even more, and nothing will change. If you re-read my post(s), you'll see my solution is quite simple and cheap- the change needs to happen at the community level, everyday citizens (you and I) taking an interest in what's happening around us, and taking action. You've lived here your whole life, I would bet if there are meth labs and the like in your area, you'd know about it. The real tradgedy is in knowing this, and turning a blind eye to because it's easier that getting involved.

I've spent 6 of my 20 years of military service in hell holes across the globe. My ideas are anything but naive- I have witnessed first hand what happens when governments have complete control of their subjects. I have lived and interacted with people whose every action is directed by a government or elite ruler of some sort. Zero personal freedom of choice. Not me, no thanks.

I swore my life upon an oath to ensure that doesn't happen here. And yes ItalianBluesBoy, I will continue to fight for even your civil liberites as well. After all, I may need someone to sing Italian Blues as I raft down the river with my granola and Hooka pipe.

DK- Our Congress/Senate forgot long ago that anything can be done without raising taxes!

[David Kennedy]

Isn't it the responsibility of the community to police itself...when did we lose this aspect of our culture...70's or 80's?

Mr. Clinton lost the 'War on Drugs' when he gutted its funding. The police were told..."Pot's OK" Opened the door for everything else...
don't get me wrong...I'm all for a persons personal choice of suicide...as long as its done cheaply and does not interfere with the rights and choices of others.
Drugs/Suicide is not a very fair player in that game...it is usually a slow drawn-out death and costs a lot of money from those involved and those who are innocent...if the Chinese ever take over this country, they will solve our drug problem quickly and efficiently...just as Mao did with a bullet in the head.

[x1x]

Originally Posted by David Kennedy

Isn't it the responsibility of the community to police itself...when did we lose this aspect of our culture...70's or 80's?

Mr. Clinton lost the 'War on Drugs' when he gutted its funding. The police were told..."Pot's OK" Opened the door for everything else...
don't get me wrong...I'm all for a persons personal choice of suicide...as long as its done cheaply and does not interfere with the rights and choices of others.
Drugs/Suicide is not a very fair player in that game...it is usually a slow drawn-out death and costs a lot of money from those involved and those who are innocent...if the Chinese ever take over this country, they will solve our drug problem quickly and efficiently...just as Mao did with a bullet in the head.

About the Chinese taking over this country? I think they are only a few steps away from already achieving it? Or very close to it.. What is your thoughts about it????

[citybilly]

I do agree that whenever there is a "war on" anything, it never improves. LBJ declared war on poverty back in '64 and it hasn't gotten better. Now they want to build a fence to fight illegal immigration. I've concluded that the only thing anyone cares about is the "appearance" of doing something, but never really fixing anything, because they want us fighting amongst ourselves. Divide and conquer.
As for the chinese taking over, do we really know who the biggest foreign investors in the stock market are? Will we even know when we have been taken over? I mean the government seems to be serving the Saudis right now. I'm just going along for the ride.

[David Kennedy]

The USA will be taken over by banking default failures (asking the countries with the gold to step in and claim the mortgages, therefore owning the real estate) and the devaluation of currency (redeemed by those same ones to keep the entire world from falling into an economic abyss) at the end of it all, they will own the real property without firing a shot...
It's been going on for several decades...now in its last moments. Strangely, Russia holds most of the gold.
Part of the scenerio too, is the farce of this 2008 election, with a socialist president (any of the 3 in my opinion) we will be easier to manage as our country fails. A martial law to keep the rebels from doing anything drastic.

Our drug culture was orchestrated in the 1960's to weaken us...part of a plan...it has worked very effectively. What a talent and money drain it has been. All of its money free and clear to the dope dealers and suppliers. Think about those billions of dollars used effectively in the economy and our deficits have no meaning...we could have free everything, pensions, health care...feed and educate the world...

Politics has been a smoke screen for the past 30 years...having us look one way, while something happens in another part of the world.
Our congress is a precise focal point of this smokescreen.. We wail and cry and nothing gets done, while the rule of law and government has been changed in the courts...we have less liberty now and most of it has come about under what has been called 'Civil Right's and Homeland Security...
West Virginia is almost the last bastion of freedom...due to its poverty, lack of education and the holding back of the culture, by its leaders, from going into the 21 century...an enigma, for sure.

[GottaHerdOn]

Originally Posted by David Kennedy

The USA will be taken over by banking default failures (asking the countries with the gold to step in and claim the mortgages, therefore owning the real estate) and the devaluation of currency (redeemed by those same ones to keep the entire world from falling into an economic abyss) at the end of it all, they will own the real property without firing a shot...
It's been going on for several decades...now in its last moments. Strangely, Russia holds most of the gold.
Part of the scenerio too, is the farce of this 2008 election, with a socialist president (any of the 3 in my opinion) we will be easier to manage as our country fails. A martial law to keep the rebels from doing anything drastic.

Our drug culture was orchestrated in the 1960's to weaken us...part of a plan...it has worked very effectively. What a talent and money drain it has been. All of its money free and clear to the dope dealers and suppliers. Think about those billions of dollars used effectively in the economy and our deficits have no meaning...we could have free everything, pensions, health care...feed and educate the world...

Politics has been a smoke screen for the past 30 years...having us look one way, while something happens in another part of the world.
Our congress is a precise focal point of this smokescreen.. We wail and cry and nothing gets done, while the rule of law and government has been changed in the courts...we have less liberty now and most of it has come about under what has been called 'Civil Right's and Homeland Security...
West Virginia is almost the last bastion of freedom...due to its poverty, lack of education and the holding back of the culture, by its leaders, from going into the 21 century...an enigma, for sure.

or the trillions of dollars we owe China for the war in Iraq. The dollar value is eroding, the credit crisis, sub-prime mortgage crisis, recession fears...

Yep, I wouldn't be surprised if my generation are loyalists to the republic of land exploitation, lack of civil rights, and sketchy business practices. A.K.A. The Republic of China. Canada may save a few of the northern more liberal states, but yeah. I'll be heading back to the old country in Europe when that day comes.