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Old 03-21-2019, 01:37 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
None of it happens without the association with the college. A coach shouldn't be worth many, many times more than an economic professor.

Also, if an athlete wastes the scholarship they should be on the hook for the costs. Just the same if an athlete gets hurt the college should still be on the hook.

If you leave before graduating the costs should be reimbursed by the NFL if that is the reason you leave.

Good.
I'd agree with that and take it a bit further and include the NBA since you see so many kids play a season or two and then bounce to the NBA.
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Old 03-21-2019, 01:52 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WVUmatt View Post
I'd agree with that and take it a bit further and include the NBA since you see so many kids play a season or two and then bounce to the NBA.
Right. I just singled out the NFL but it would apply to the NBA also. Maybe other entities I haven't even considered also. Which is my bigger argument. There are many changes we should make before closing college's.

This is not a swipe at WVU but the system overall.
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Old 03-22-2019, 06:02 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 304eer View Post
Of all the arguments you could have made, this is one of the worst. As Matt said, the AD is self-sufficient. They bring in their own money. No state money pays for the AD. How much they pay their coaches does not make a difference in the quality of education. I honestly don't know what you have against WVU but they have done 1,000x more for the state of WV in research, money, education, and prestige than Glenville State ever has
WVU's athletic budget is $115 million per year and growing. It is a highly profitable enterprise … one of the Top 25 in the country in terms of revenue. The more than $11 million per year of athletic revenue paid to The University's general fund for scholarships makes the unit a net plus financially for the school. In addition, it is the school's and the state's public face, bringing more positive attention than any other factor and regularly appearing in national telecasts. Coaches are paid big money, at least they are at WVU, because they generate major revenue. At P5 schools, coaches salaries are not subsidized by general revenue funds.

Interestingly, Wheeling Jesuit has instituted a football program in spite of the fact the school is facing economic hardships. Apparently they believe they have to do that in order to compete for students.
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Old 03-22-2019, 07:02 AM
 
Location: Huntington, WV
4,299 posts, read 7,099,457 times
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To the topic at hand, hopefully WJU can turn it around. That'll be a major blow to Wheeling if they were to shut down. It looks like the faculty are already planning for this to happen. Not only will you have a loss of students and salaries but then the empty buildings can become a liability if not filled.

http://www.theintelligencer.net/news...ancial-crisis/

A few interesting articles on the WVU athletic budget (as mentioned above) with some figures on the subject:

Looks like WVU's Athletic Budget is closer to $90 million. According to this article, the higher number attempts to include money from the WVU Foundation. It notes, from WVU's own admission, that the lower number is more accurate.

Quote:
The NCAA report shows WVU making $110,565,870 in revenue. WVU's federal reporting shows $90,582,859 in revenue. That's a difference of $19,982,911.

The NCAA profit number is $21,367,677. WVU's is $2,474,474. That's a gap of $18,890,203.
https://247sports.com/college/west-v...her-119484479/

The Athletic Dept page lists the budget at over $93 million currently. That's $22 million less than what's listed above.

https://wvusports.com/staff.aspx?staff=1

Last edited by tbailey1138; 03-22-2019 at 08:08 AM..
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Old 03-22-2019, 07:33 AM
 
1,577 posts, read 1,281,528 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbailey1138 View Post
A few of interesting articles with some figures on the subject:

Looks like WVU's Athletic Budget is closer to $90 million. According to this article, the higher number attempts to include money from the WVU Foundation. It notes, from WVU's own admission, that the lower number is more accurate.

https://247sports.com/college/west-v...her-119484479/

The Athletic Dept page lists the budget at over $93 million currently. That's $22 million less than what's listed above.

https://wvusports.com/staff.aspx?staff=1
If I donate money to WVU athletics, or buy season tickets and have to pay the extortion charge with a donation to the MAC, all of that money is funneled through the WVU Foundation. (Two weeks ago I donated money to the rifle team and 100% of it was funneled through the WVU Foundation)

Also what's your point here? I only brought up athletic revenue because another member was complaining about the athletic department sucking money away from the education side of colleges which it clearly isn't (in WVU's case).

And that was only brought up because someone mentioned about the state possibly looking at or should look at starting to consolidate schools. Which then led to someone mentioning closing Glenville which led to another member here posting that they wanted to see WVU closed.

Edit: I see this was added after I quoted your post:

"To the topic at hand, hopefully WJU can turn it around. That'll be a major blow to Wheeling if they were to shut down. It looks like the faculty are already planning for this to happen. Not only will you have a loss of students and salaries but then the empty buildings can become a liability if not filled."

I agree here, that'll definitely hurt Wheeling and I imagine any other community that has a college that closes. There will certainly be ripple effects. Reading the story you posted though, I didn't realize the church bought WJU back in 2017. You would think that if they spent the money on them back then that they would have had a long term plan to keep the college open.

Last edited by WVUmatt; 03-22-2019 at 08:19 AM..
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Old 03-22-2019, 08:02 AM
 
Location: Huntington, WV
4,299 posts, read 7,099,457 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WVUmatt View Post
By that writers own admission after the fact, WVU intentionally did not account for revenue the same way some other colleges did, for what ever stupid reason WVU decided to report the bare minimum and take a lot of the other football revenue and declare it as just overall athletic department revenue (probably to cry poor me to the boosters). Also if I donate money to WVU athletics, or buy season tickets and have to pay the extortion charge with a donation to the MAC, all of that money is funneled through the WVU Foundation. (Two weeks ago I donated money to the rifle team and 100% of it was funneled through the WVU Foundation)

Also what's your point here? I only brought up athletic revenue because another member was complaining about the athletic department sucking money away from the education side of colleges which it clearly isn't (in WVU's case).
I meant to add the first part before posting but accidentally hit submit before adding it. I removed the last part because even though it talked of the profit side of athletics, that had the likelihood of steering this WAAYY off topic.

I only mentioned the WVU Athletic department due to the numbers CT brought up and was using. As per usual, I looked up the numbers and noted the difference. I also noted that the difference was due to the variation in the NCAA reporting and Federal reporting based on the quote. I just wanted to post it incase others noticed the same.

I think athletics play a big role in the visibility of a school and help increase enrollment numbers and donations. No one would know most of these schools existed if they didn’t play against them on the court/field or see them on TV. The extra visibility is almost always worth the expense. The fact that $22 million comes from tickets, donors, etc for WVU shows how important that side of things can be.
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Old 03-22-2019, 08:09 AM
 
75,593 posts, read 32,330,886 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WVUmatt View Post
By that writers own admission after the fact, WVU intentionally did not account for revenue the same way some other colleges did, for what ever stupid reason WVU decided to report the bare minimum and take a lot of the other football revenue and declare it as just overall athletic department revenue (probably to cry poor me to the boosters). Also if I donate money to WVU athletics, or buy season tickets and have to pay the extortion charge with a donation to the MAC, all of that money is funneled through the WVU Foundation. (Two weeks ago I donated money to the rifle team and 100% of it was funneled through the WVU Foundation)

Also what's your point here? I only brought up athletic revenue because another member was complaining about the athletic department sucking money away from the education side of colleges which it clearly isn't (in WVU's case).
You can address my actual argument or not. A football coach should not be paid many, many, many times more than an economics professor and then cost the college millions to get rid of them.

Heck, the assistants get paid more than the economic professor.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidch.../#4caab5dd3b24

Quote:
And that was only brought up because someone mentioned about the state possibly looking at or should look at starting to consolidate schools. Which then led to someone mentioning closing Glenville which led to another member here posting that they wanted to see WVU closed.
Again, my actual argument. I would rather see WVU closed than some other college BUT I want reforms so none need closed.
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Old 03-22-2019, 08:16 AM
 
1,577 posts, read 1,281,528 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbailey1138 View Post
I meant to add the first part before posting but accidentally hit submit before adding it.

I only mentioned the WVU Athletic department due to the numbers CT brought up and was using. As per usual, I looked up the numbers and noted the difference. I also noted that the difference was due to the variation in the NCAA reporting and Federal reporting based on the quote. I just wanted to post it incase others noticed the same.

I think athletics play a big role in the visibility of a school and help increase enrollment numbers and donations. No one would know most of these schools existed if they didn’t play against them on the court/field or see them on TV. The extra visibility is almost always worth the expense. The fact that $22 million comes from tickets, donors, etc for WVU shows how important that side of things can be.
I figured that's what happened, I've done that numerous times lol

As for the second paragraph, that makes sense, I just didn't want it to seem like the whole discussion was about WVU's athletic department since that wasn't the main point at all. (definitely don't want this devolving into something where it gets locked and people get timeouts)

Beyond just the visibility for the schools, imagine the tax dollars that Morgantown, Huntington, Monongalia County, Cabell County and the state rake in from businesses and hotel taxes fro people coming to sporting events. I'd imagine it is a pretty large chunk of tax revenue.
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Old 03-22-2019, 08:44 AM
 
1,577 posts, read 1,281,528 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
You can address my actual argument or not. A football coach should not be paid many, many, many times more than an economics professor and then cost the college millions to get rid of them.

Heck, the assistants get paid more than the economic professor.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidch.../#4caab5dd3b24



Again, my actual argument. I would rather see WVU closed than some other college BUT I want reforms so none need closed.
It is a shame that coach salaries have amazingly ballooned up to where they are while faculty haven't, but there is zero chance WV can do anything about that. Also if you look how salaries for coaches are broken down, only a very small portion of the salary actually comes from the university (I believe there is a cap there) and the rest comes from a booster/AD slush fund and that is what is driving these salaries to crazy heights. Also the cost to get rid of coaches comes from the AD budget, not from the education side so state money isn't going into firing a coach. Even if you got your wish and coach salaries were capped at an economics professor's salary, that would not change the education funding issue WV has found itself in. You can be angry and look at WVU's or MU's athletic budget all day and say d@&*$% if we just had that money for the education side we would not need to close anything (no clue why it is underlined and acting like a hyper link because I put "" around it) but that isn't how this works at all. If MU's and WVU's AD were to just magically go away along with all of the money in it (since it is money they generate), the education funding would still be exactly the same and we would still be approaching a massive issue that either requires way more funding to prop up all of the smaller schools in WV or we would be faced with consolidations and closures. The athletics side has zero to do with the mess the state is currently finding itself in (financially for higher education), it has everything to do with an ever decreasing population (largest problem this state faces frankly) and to many schools all doing the exact same thing now.


As for your last comment, I'd rather not see anything closed either but it will probably be needed in a couple years, where we differ though is I'd rather see one of (or a handful of) the smaller schools that are serving an ever shrinking population of students that are doing the same thing as other schools be closed than close down R1 or R2 research universities which would cost the state hundreds of millions of dollars in research grants, 10,000's of people unemployed directly and it would cause a couple hospital systems to disappear.
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Old 03-22-2019, 08:53 AM
 
75,593 posts, read 32,330,886 times
Reputation: 14959
Quote:
Originally Posted by WVUmatt View Post
It is a shame that coach salaries have amazingly ballooned up to where they are while faculty haven't, but there is zero chance WV can do anything about that.
Alone? Of course not. I doubt they even want to. We should.

Quote:
Also if you look how salaries for coaches are broken down, only a very small portion of the salary actually comes from the university (I believe there is a cap there) and the rest comes from a booster/AD slush fund and that is what is driving these salaries to crazy heights.
No mention of anyone else being on the hook other than the colleges.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/08/s...es-salary.html

Quote:
Also the cost to get rid of coaches comes from the AD budget, not from the education side so state money isn't going into firing a coach.
I've covered this already. There should only be one budget.

Quote:
Even if you got your wish and coach salaries were capped at an economics professor's salary, that would not change the education funding issue WV has found itself in. You can be angry and look at WVU's or MU's athletic budget all day and say d@&*$% if we just had that money for the education side we would not need to close anything (no clue why it is underlined and acting like a hyper link because I put "" around it) but that isn't how this works at all. If MU's and WVU's AD were to just magically go away along with all of the money in it (since it is money they generate), the education funding would still be exactly the same and we would still be approaching a massive issue that either requires way more funding to prop up all of the smaller schools in WV or we would be faced with consolidations and closures. The athletics side has zero to do with the mess the state is currently finding itself in (financially for higher education), it has everything to do with an ever decreasing population (largest problem this state faces frankly) and to many schools all doing the exact same thing now.
Again, I never argued these programs should just "go away". I have no problem with a college having a sports program. For some it is the ends to their means. Those who actually go on to play. Coaching, trainers........those who handle the logistics. All viable professions.

Quote:
As for your last comment, I'd rather not see anything closed either but it will probably be needed in a couple years, where we differ though is I'd rather see one of (or a handful of) the smaller schools that are serving an ever shrinking population of students that are doing the same thing as other schools be closed than close down R1 or R2 research universities which would cost the state hundreds of millions of dollars in research grants, 10,000's of people unemployed directly and it would cause a couple hospital systems to disappear.
Don't even get me started on the ever growing corrupt hospital systems.
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