What makes West Virginia so different? (Hinton: violent crime, buy, high school)

[manthechange]

Well...I think the responses to this post have been fairly enlightening. I'm not sure if I got the answer that I was looking for...but I am suprised (knowing WV - I used to live in Pittsburgh) that so many people in the state would vote Hillary.

I'm also surprised at how many of labeled Obama as "elitist" when he was the most under-funded candidate at the beginning of the race. He is also the candidate with the lowest net worth in his personal finances. I think that fact alone probably makes him more in touch with the common man, than say, someone who can loan themselves 11.4 million dollars without blinking an eye.

[snorpus]

As Tip O'Neil once said, "In politics, perception is reality."

Obama's family origins and financial circumstances are irrelevant, it's his positions that are perceived as elitist. Doesn't really matter what he really thinks, it's how he's perceived.

And remarks like "narrow minded people in small towns" does nothing to dispel that perception. Being in favor of gun control is not going to win many votes in West Virginia. That's an elitist position, it sounds like it's coming from someone who thinks that steaks and hams are hatched somewhere in the back of the supermarket.

[manthechange]

Originally Posted by snorpus

As Tip O'Neil once said, "In politics, perception is reality."

Obama's family origins and financial circumstances are irrelevant, it's his positions that are perceived as elitist. Doesn't really matter what he really thinks, it's how he's perceived.

And remarks like "narrow minded people in small towns" does nothing to dispel that perception. Being in favor of gun control is not going to win many votes in West Virginia. That's an elitist position, it sounds like it's coming from someone who thinks that steaks and hams are hatched somewhere in the back of the supermarket.

Good point. Too bad that those "perceptions" can also apply to an entire state.

[Threerun]

I don't know how many people here really categorize Obama as an elitist.. I think this state, as noted before, has a huge comfort level with the Clinton's.

Regardless of Sen. Byrd's shortcomings, or other elected officials for that matter, the state will vote with whom they feel most comfortable with.

I actually think it's the 'time for change' slogan that resonates poorly. I mean look at it this way- the state has been politically dominated for decades by the democratic party and the state is consistently ranked near the bottom of everything... They still elect the same old status quo anyway.

How do you campaign against that?

[citybilly]

I go back and forth on Hillary. But I do like her sense of humor. After the kerfuffle over Obama not wearing a flag pin, I half expected Hillary to show up wearing an Evel Knevel red, white, and blue jump suit. It could still happen.

[harborlady]

jackie2008 from TN seems to have thrown his support to oprah, for the idea that when she speaks to congress, they'll all actually show up for work, knowing that they'll get a freebie high-end ice blender under their seats!

YouTube - Red State Update: Oprah For President

Mark I want to hear more on your philosophy about the nature of human animal, which I think should be a whole other thread. I really want to hear it, so don't be shy or brief. I'm listening.

communism and socialism aren't the same thing. Nor should socialism replace our governance system. Nor should everything return to heavy handed federally run utilities. Just saying that we need to decide what is the best way to manage serious problems, and approaching health care (which is already tangled up into social security through medicare/disability whatnots) from a socialist angle is an appropriate system. Try not to forget that americans have been fed a regular diet (cold war threat crazy ivan stuff) of propaganda about any other system that isn't our version of apple pie. Cherry, blueberry, and the aquired taste of strawberry rhubarb may not be considered? World is bigger than that and you know it. Frankly, if the mek tribe of west papua had the better plan, I'd be voting for theirs.

Buffet style choices for healthcare systems have to be compatible with one thing first- the hypocratic oath of western medicine. Incompatible with that, it's viability as a potential solution is moot.

The healthcare as-is in america isn't american. It's not democratic. It's not republic. It's controlled by the worst elements of capitalism (an economic tool, not a governing tool) and is completely dysfunctional. Unmitigated greed from abuses in this piecemeal NON system are what keep it out of reach for many americans, and I'm betting, a larger % of the population of WV, which has only left them one choice to get on disability somehow someway.

$300 asprin doses weren't created by gov't, but by commerce forces in a war for money where the patient and doctor alike are collateral damage. Noticed it or not, there are moral tales in every episode of ER for you to consider. The scripts were practically lifted off staff meeting arguments in hospitals. Lets hear from the WVUPharma dude if he's got exerience on his side.

Energy standpoint: We're vulnerable to price fixing and exploitation as long as we have to depend on conflict of interest corporations watching the hen house or depend on foriegn oil. This has been KNOWN for 30 yrs or better. Enough already. Anyone have argument for keeping the status quo, I'd love to hear it. Got a better plan? Get those fingies moving and type.

I was in vladovostok russia. I went in a store, the shelves were empty, and people went to work anyway because that's where they were told to be. For all I knew they weren't getting paid to be there anymore but had no idea where else to go, same as the low ranking sailors living on the sub parked next to us on the wharf. They didn't decide where they were living, nor how many they would live with in an apartment they also had to stand on a line for a very long time to get. That line was a 5 yr line as told by a young married couple who had to live in a one br apt with extended family of 8. They either stand on that line, or wait for a relative to die to 'inherit' the apartment, hoping bureacratic oversight of vacancy.
Nobody got to choose a career. They were told what they'd be, and which school they would attend to become it. Even after glasnost, people kept their heads low in the street, and walked on the other side of the street from the KGB bldg. They feared a vaccant building. Take a moment and let your mind imagine those words. Walk in their worn shoes a while.

Old women, beyond the years of being able to work a job, were in the street with deep worries on their faces, forlorn and uncertain. Every promise made to them for their entire working adult life was now null and void. Betrayed for obedience. I spent time in these peoples homes and heard their stories. They tended to be dirty because the state water system everyone else not in the kremlin had to use was rotting away. The water in the tub and toilet was black. Nothing came out of the sink faucet. That's why they didn't bathe very often.
I emptied out my stash from my sea locker. They'd never seen a jar of peanut butter before. It had never even showed up on the blackmarket in memory. Most of what I gave them they didn't partake, because it would fetch the things they truly needed on the black market. Now the black market was being run by an empowered russian mob, who were increasingly violent, and represented a job opportunity to the young (same way military is in WV) since the govt was bankrupt and a power vaccuum was going on. Do you I need to say more about russia?

This goes on in china in a less citified way of downtown moscow. Horrendous abuses of their own people happen more in hidden rural areas than the city. How would you know this when google and AOL and bill gates inc. honored state censorship of the entire internet flow of china. They're guilty of the same self serving power grabs the kremlin enjoyed. It's not for the benefit or protection of chinese citizens, it's to protect their own hide. This is communism.
The american military is modeled after communist system. There is a higher authority than american military, so any abuses in that system are more often limited to that higher authority. Like when international scale capitalists are in control of it, and can instigate wars between nations to generate a lucrative demand for armaments, or reducing our fine military folks to the likes of pirates. Abusing obedient people for selfish gain. Where did I hear that before?

Cuba is communist. I've been to cuba a few times. 1966 cuban adjustment act was created because the Cubans that came on the boats spoke of persecution. Republicans and dems agreed enough to put that act on the books. The ones who remain in cuba today say good things, that they're happy & secure. They say crime is non existant, and everyone gets what they need. Seems to me if they really are happy it's because the only ones left in the country are the ones who agreed with fidel castro's version of an HOA plan. So they have a common goal, even if it did mean they had to ethnically cleanse the philosophical opposition.
The people on those boats heading for america were the former land owners & businessmen who protested that their livelihoods were being forcibly confiscated. Remaining native cubans there think (anectdotal info dated 1993) the only thing they lack is interaction with the rest of the world due to economic sanctions imposed by USA and allies. Those sanctions are the cause of any suffering they experience, according to rickie riccardo on the street in cuba, yet somehow there are refugee boats being intercepted by the USCG to this very day. Why do you think that's so?

Good idea to go back to constitution. I've blathered on so much in blogs you knew I'd agree. (someone will teach me brevity). But Mark please write an in depth plan about the path back to it since we've walked so far away for so long. There is too much water under the bridge, and too many people paid into social security with a promise of being taken care of in the end. To tell them they can't get money on payday by null/voiding their pensions (judges for airline folks) and social security is tossing people to the wolves the same way russia did, to the detriment of social order. Our social security system has operated on the principles of socialism, only it's applied unevenly as benefits go, and democratically only as payments into the system go. It is what it is whether anyone will admit because they're stuck on calling it apple pie. Call a spade a spade, please.
<I yield the balance of my time to the right honorable hinton bound>
<and anyone else with a dime to spend on the subject>

[harborlady]

My definition of elitist is a person who superficially studies a situation, not earning their time in the trenches to really see all sides, and thinks they know best from their protected perch. It's not always about blue blood pedigree or well heeled shoes. Rural folks can be elitist same as citified can.
Black elitism makes them lose support from ordinary folks because they only want to tell the tale of their own suffering (similar to jewish victimhood factions), and ignore all of humanity suffering. True equality & respect happens when we can see suffering of all parties involved (even the popular vilified wealthy, or the odious politcian).
To my sensibilities, Obama is more an aesthete than a working man willing to get in the mud to get it fixed. Yes, I believe obama is an elitist.

[Threerun]

I would say his roots point otherwise. I prefer the aged definition of elitist as: a group of persons who by virtue of position or education exercise much power or influence.

Kennedy? Elitist. Pelosi? Elitist. Gore? Elitist. Clinton? Oh yeah- Elitist. Obama? Mmm..

I don't see Clinton ever getting 'in the mud' to fix anything either. Hell, if anybody has seen time in the trenches it's McCain.

I still think it's a comfort issue. Times weren't near as bad when Bill was in office and she's reaping that dividend. Rural and blue collar folks will vote in that favor and there is nothing wrong with that, IMO.

[Threerun]

Oh and I forgot to include Edwards and Bushie under the elitist moniker..

[63AMG]

I don't mean to sound rude but, West Virginia is just a backwards cesspool of poor and uneducated " lost causes" (I'm trying to be nice here). Hillary Clinton's core and consistent group of voters. Hillary territory!

What does anyone expect? That's the only thing that can explain this because the overwhelming Hillary percentage as this is out of wack with other states.