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Old 05-20-2008, 06:32 PM
 
11,962 posts, read 7,677,598 times
Reputation: 2772

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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Kennedy View Post
Jackie was our love...our lady...we, America...No one should ever suffer her grief...
DK, admit it, you only voted for hillary because you wanted to see bill forced to wear an evening gown on her arm.
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Old 05-20-2008, 06:48 PM
x1x
 
Location: My Heart Is In WV
227 posts, read 558,592 times
Reputation: 134
Harborlady: Do you believe that if everyone that has voted for Clinton in all the primaries in all the states wrote in Clinton that the (X margin) would still apply?

Yes the electoral system determines who wins the state, However if there were a write in and no votes for the candidate on the ballot and they lost because they did not carry the popular vote, I believe it would send a message to future politicians that they should respect ALL and not just a few!!!!!!

Last edited by x1x; 05-20-2008 at 07:25 PM.. Reason: Correction
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Old 05-20-2008, 07:46 PM
 
292 posts, read 690,588 times
Reputation: 133
I have similar notions about Obama's wife, and the first lady does make a difference. DK, your list could include Mrs. Johnson. Her mission to "beautify America" actually did change our perception quite a bit. i remember as a little buck, highways were littered with trash because people tossed it out of car windows. Some still do but not near as much.
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Old 05-20-2008, 08:36 PM
 
11,962 posts, read 7,677,598 times
Reputation: 2772
Default why 3rd can't win, but can shun or spank

x1x no it wouldn't. She'd be in the same boat as every other 3rd party candidate, unfortunately. They're disenfranchised from bigger elected offices like presidency.
Mostly where third party candidates are at now, they're winning bigger in small elections, gathering power enough to move up the chain by piggy backing endorsements for bigger things. As much as people may laugh, an independence party candidate was elected governor in minnesota- jesse ventura the wrestling dude. Turns out he really had a brain in his head, and did great things for the state. Unfortunately, people vying for power in the party ruined the party, so he left it, and I think politics.
They will in time make their way up the chain, but for now, it isn't possible to be that ambitious and expect success.

I noticed that in WV they don't have multiple tickets on the ballot. Maybe this was just for the primary? Dunno. In NY we had a deal where lets say Obama and McCain were running for "president of ny". The other parties like independence party, or conservatives, or working families party would all line up endorsements for who was 'their' candidate if they didn't have one specifically their own. ****It also worked the other way- if independence party had a viable candidate for their slot, but dems did not, dems could endorse independence.

Regardless of endorsements (like byrd), you still have option as individual voter in the booth. SO, when casting your one ballot, there would be multiple levers for each name. I could cast my vote for Obama "in the name of" independence party, or McCain "in the name of" conservative party, and NOT be voting in name of dem or a repub. Politicians get to know exactly where their vote is coming from that way and it has very real advantages. It's a wake up call to let dems and repubs know that people are unsatisfied with BOTH of them. Some took that message strongly enough to actually LEAVE dem and repub parties because they agree with the dissatisfaction.

Main reason why most third party cant win presidency is because not all states have same ballots. Party would have to be registered in all states, plus be endorsed by X ammount of people and X ammount of money and have x delegates and and and...
and I'll bet someone less confusing could explain it better! hahahaha

Ballots aren't paper anymore in most states. NY has a lever system. Some have computer set ups (I don't trust those even before diebold). The system rigidly puts you in box to choose only who is offered. We're not allowed to pencil in DK.
(lets not scare him like that even if we could, his blood pressure can't take it)

Mountaineer party of WV doesn't exist on NY ballots for any office. See? Even if mountaineer party had a presidential candidate running, I would never know he existed, and neither would all the other states, because there isn't a "slot" or "button" or "lever" to pull for him.

Should independence party have ballot on all states, should hillary be endorsed for that slot, AND should everyone who wanted her before (and maybe a few others) ran over to that side of the room, it would guarantee that McCain would be elected because republicans are sticking together. Dems are divided, and so,
Results: 35% McCain(r), 20%obama(d), 20%clinton(i) all others 15%.
Repubs will count on dems not sticking together at the ballot. Better start catching up on episodes of dr strangelove.


**** for some odd reason in NY dem primary no presidential candidates were endorsed by the independence party, or any other 3rd party for that matter. I don't know if it was because they wanted to exclude those parties deliberately, or if the third parties had solidarity and said no one was worthy of them. I just don't know- I showed up to vote when resident there, and wasn't allowed to vote in NY primary due to no independence lever to pull. Luckily my residency change got me in time to vote in WV.
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Old 05-20-2008, 09:16 PM
x1x
 
Location: My Heart Is In WV
227 posts, read 558,592 times
Reputation: 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by harborlady View Post
x1x no it wouldn't. She'd be in the same boat as every other 3rd party candidate, unfortunately. They're disenfranchised from bigger elected offices like presidency.
Mostly where third party candidates are at now, they're winning bigger in small elections, gathering power enough to move up the chain by piggy backing endorsements for bigger things. As much as people may laugh, an independence party candidate was elected governor in minnesota- jesse ventura the wrestling dude. Turns out he really had a brain in his head, and did great things for the state. Unfortunately, people vying for power in the party ruined the party, so he left it, and I think politics.
They will in time make their way up the chain, but for now, it isn't possible to be that ambitious and expect success.

I noticed that in WV they don't have multiple tickets on the ballot. Maybe this was just for the primary? Dunno. In NY we had a deal where lets say Obama and McCain were running for "president of ny". The other parties like independence party, or conservatives, or working families party would all line up endorsements for who was 'their' candidate if they didn't have one specifically their own. ****It also worked the other way- if independence party had a viable candidate for their slot, but dems did not, dems could endorse independence.

Regardless of endorsements (like byrd), you still have option as individual voter in the booth. SO, when casting your one ballot, there would be multiple levers for each name. I could cast my vote for Obama "in the name of" independence party, or McCain "in the name of" conservative party, and NOT be voting in name of dem or a repub. Politicians get to know exactly where their vote is coming from that way and it has very real advantages. It's a wake up call to let dems and repubs know that people are unsatisfied with BOTH of them. Some took that message strongly enough to actually LEAVE dem and repub parties because they agree with the dissatisfaction.

Main reason why most third party cant win presidency is because not all states have same ballots. Party would have to be registered in all states, plus be endorsed by X ammount of people and X ammount of money and have x delegates and and and...
and I'll bet someone less confusing could explain it better! hahahaha

Ballots aren't paper anymore in most states. NY has a lever system. Some have computer set ups (I don't trust those even before diebold). The system rigidly puts you in box to choose only who is offered. We're not allowed to pencil in DK.
(lets not scare him like that even if we could, his blood pressure can't take it)

Mountaineer party of WV doesn't exist on NY ballots for any office. See? Even if mountaineer party had a presidential candidate running, I would never know he existed, and neither would all the other states, because there isn't a "slot" or "button" or "lever" to pull for him.

Should independence party have ballot on all states, should hillary be endorsed for that slot, AND should everyone who wanted her before (and maybe a few others) ran over to that side of the room, it would guarantee that McCain would be elected because republicans are sticking together. Dems are divided, and so,
Results: 35% McCain(r), 20%obama(d), 20%clinton(i) all others 15%.
Repubs will count on dems not sticking together at the ballot. Better start catching up on episodes of dr strangelove.


**** for some odd reason in NY dem primary no presidential candidates were endorsed by the independence party, or any other 3rd party for that matter. I don't know if it was because they wanted to exclude those parties deliberately, or if the third parties had solidarity and said no one was worthy of them. I just don't know- I showed up to vote when resident there, and wasn't allowed to vote in NY primary due to no independence lever to pull. Luckily my residency change got me in time to vote in WV.
Well after reading your points of fact, My only conclusion is for all not vote at ALL if the person of your choice is not nominated,

I find it hard to find a qualified candidate to vote for, And don't believe it makes common sense to vote for someone you don't believe in just because their name is on the ballot!!!! or they belong to a certain party!!!!

But then I guess this is the American way of politics, If who you feel is right and they don't make it on the ballot, Then vote for who you don't belive in because it's the American way of politics....

However it's not my way, If one does not qualify to my standards then no one gets my VOTE...
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Old 05-20-2008, 09:37 PM
 
Location: Lost in Montana *recalculating*...
4,809 posts, read 7,537,551 times
Reputation: 3655
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Kennedy View Post
I feel as if Mrs. Obama is very angry and is above being involved in the general welfare of americans..She's got hers...now you go and get yours on your own.
I doubt it. I could see her 'beautification' project being much more urbane and closer to her home, where quite frankly, America needs it most.
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Old 05-20-2008, 09:40 PM
 
9 posts, read 25,738 times
Reputation: 21
harborlady--I agree withyou on Irag. For the most part. We should tell the so called government of Irag that on next Saturday our troops are pulling out.Our troops get ---what 90 , 120 maybe 180 days of training. If the Irag forces aren't trained by now they never will be. As long as we are willing to do there dieing for them they will let us. If they don't care enough to fight for a decent way of life ---so be it.
I am baseing my prospect for change on Nancy Pelosi's own words when she became speaker of the house. In the first 100 days there will be change. What bull. I think we can pretty much count on the same results regardless of who is elected.
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Old 05-20-2008, 09:49 PM
 
11,962 posts, read 7,677,598 times
Reputation: 2772
Quote:
Originally Posted by x1x View Post
Well after reading your points of fact, My only conclusion is for all not vote at ALL if the person of your choice is not nominated,

I find it hard to find a qualified candidate to vote for, And don't believe it makes common sense to vote for someone you don't believe in just because their name is on the ballot!!!! or they belong to a certain party!!!!

But then I guess this is the American way of politics, If who you feel is right and they don't make it on the ballot, Then vote for who you don't belive in because it's the American way of politics....

However it's not my way, If one does not qualify to my standards then no one gets my VOTE...
x1x I respect your choice, because nobody has the right to dictate to another how to vote. I just hope we all find candidates we can get behind that have americas best interest at heart. I think voting your conscience is the most honest way to vote and closest to what founders meant, if only they knew what we'd be looking at today.
I hope someone turns up for you, and for myself, and for everybody.

Who would thomas jefferson vote for? lincoln? washington? FDR? jfk?
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Old 05-20-2008, 10:03 PM
x1x
 
Location: My Heart Is In WV
227 posts, read 558,592 times
Reputation: 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by harborlady View Post
x1x I respect your choice, because nobody has the right to dictate to another how to vote. I just hope we all find candidates we can get behind that have americas best interest at heart. I think voting your conscience is the most honest way to vote and closest to what founders meant, if only they knew what we'd be looking at today.
I hope someone turns up for you, and for myself, and for everybody.

Who would thomas jefferson vote for? lincoln? washington? FDR? jfk?

Well I would hope Thomas Jefferson would use the same criteria as I do to select a qualified candidate,

For me to consider a candidate they must have demonstrated some leadership
in their past,
Were they active in academic activities.
Have they been active in their community.
Have they held positions in local civic or public office.
What have they done in the past that's benefited others.
All the above gives me the criteria for consideration of voting for a candidate.
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Old 05-20-2008, 10:35 PM
 
125 posts, read 311,287 times
Reputation: 74
Someone asked for a reason why you should vote for Obama. Someone else said they didn't know his plans or his ideas for "change." This is only my opinion and I tend not to push it on anyone, but you did ask.

I believe Obama sincerely wants to be president in order to effect change. Not to power-grab. NOT to come out of there a millionaire (???). I sincerely believe this man wants change, has ideas about how to make changes, and will work his butt off for it once in office.

That said, if you can't find Obama's positions on issues, go to his website, barackobama.com and find the word "Issues" on the top banner. Under that are seventeen separate issues and there is a square TON of specific information, specific ideas under each of those categories His is the very best campaign website of any I've ever seen! It also contains background info on both Obama and his wife.

AND, being a Mountaineer forever myself, I have to take issue with the idea that Michelle Obama is "angry" and "above the general welfare" of Americans. Read her history and tell me that she wouldn't make a remarkable foreign ambassador. This woman appeared "angry" when people were ridiculously badmouthing her husband. Do you know a wife out there who wouldn't defend her husband to the death if necessary? I'd think WVians would have a better respect for someone whose main problem is that she can't help but state her mind.

Again, you asked. And this is my humble opinion. I would love to vote for a woman and if Obama wasn't running, I'd be voting for Clinton. But I just LOVE Obama.
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