saving gas $ (Clarksburg, Hinton: move, oil, farm)

[harborlady]

Holy cow... You know that just might inspire people to look for them on sale hahahha

[Hinton Bound]

Here's some food for though. I pulled a list of the top 5 importers of oil to the US, they are: Canada, Saudi Arabia, Mexico, Nigeria, and Venezuela. The top 3 oil producing countries in the world are: Saudi Arabia, Russia, and the United States. Made me think of the Alaskan pipeline, and all the oil we must get. Can you believe we sell (export) nearly every drop to Japan and Korea?! Duh.

How much less would we pay at the pump if we used our own oil... essentially replacing Saudi Arabian oil with our own? If nothing else, it would eliminate this apparently ficticious middle eastern oil dependancy.

...but I'm just a dumb pilot, what do I know

~Mark

[David Kennedy]

And much of this is refined product too.

At any rate, the situation is getting a good look over...elections coming, someone needs to get the blame for this...and some real accountability should be found...an economy has to grow just like a garden...growth projections should be longer than presidential terms...

I'm for less government so much now that I sometimes consider becoming a hermit..

[harborlady]

Originally Posted by Hinton Bound

Here's some food for though. I pulled a list of the top 5 importers of oil to the US, they are: Canada, Saudi Arabia, Mexico, Nigeria, and Venezuela. The top 3 oil producing countries in the world are: Saudi Arabia, Russia, and the United States. Made me think of the Alaskan pipeline, and all the oil we must get. Can you believe we sell (export) nearly every drop to Japan and Korea?! Duh.

How much less would we pay at the pump if we used our own oil... essentially replacing Saudi Arabian oil with our own? If nothing else, it would eliminate this apparently ficticious middle eastern oil dependancy.

...but I'm just a dumb pilot, what do I know

~Mark

What you are proposing suggests that we make enough in house (which we don't and never could at current demand levels even if ANWR were online), and what we did make would be "unfairly burdening oil companies" through price fixing, departing from the <alleged> free market. I can agree with this superficially as an emergency measure, but oil companies will not be motivated to keep up with demand if they cant get maximum profit. So too will the local guy with a derrick providing his crude claim he's being cheated when we cap oil at $100/bbl when open market is $150/bbl. You can't say thats a free market either.

The result will be deliberate heel dragging by local producers and bootleg oil/gas in open economy because the margins will attrack theives to export what we establish as cheaper. That was happening in 70's oil crisis btw- enforced only by irs agencies noticing how wealthy gas stations were getting but they were out of fuel. It went back offshore in barges, sold on higher international market for $$$ profits despite our shortages. China is currently subsidizing oil refineries 81% for their general population gas prices, and will make itself broke doing so.

The screwiest thing about oil- even when it isn't handled, transported, or anything at all (just sitting there) the price goes up exponentially from office type folks who make a living playing mind games. AKA the middleman from hell. It's called running up the market (driving up prices), it happens in financial centers like wall street, but that's not the only financial center in the world, nor are the people motivating all of this neccessarily american owned companies. That means congress has very limited jurisdiction, as does all of our govt, until we change our overall policies regarding international 'free trade' that isn't really free.


speculators in commodities market are deliberately raising prices that hurt all countries on this globe. see it now?
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...8g0gQ&refer=uk

Who says? Oil exporters themselves who didn't set that price- OPEC King calls for a meeting to smack some sense into people.
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNe...43187020080609
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsO...17800220080612
They're also interested in getting regulations in place that would prevent speculators from running amok with financial schemes or weilding excess power over whole nations through politically motivated price fixing (chavez, russia, etc). ^5 King, its about time!

Here are advertizers from said speculators in commodities trading. Goldman sachs and morgan aren't as blatant with this drooling greed, but exert considerable influence in the market place unlike this small potato company.
http://www.angelnexus.com/o/web/4081

Metaphor that is more simplistically stated:
Imagine you had a farmstand selling strawberries. You have regular customers you like who are good and pay their bills for regular demand/revenue stream. A steady paycheck. Then you get a bunch of goons showing up at your farmstand making a ruckus saying- I want all of it- I'll pay you 50 cents more. Bidding wars, like real estate. Nothing about those strawberries changed, they just sat on a shelf appreciating astronomically. Then they turn to your regular customers and offer them strawberries for more than what they paid for doing nothing but making a ruckus.

Sometimes it happens in the parking lot when your regular customers are walking out with their purchase too- and you have no idea those goons are playing a game outside your doors. Your customers come back and say they need more, you sell more to them, they go back outside and make more profit from mark up forgetting about their own jam company. Why make jam when I can make more money in your parking lot? Big Oil companies do this at times without ever loading a barge by playing commodities market games themselves.

Same goons will go ahead and set a price 3x's on open market for guaranteed delivery contracts by choking the pipeline delivery system (knowing how much crude a producer is able to pump in a day and trying to sign contracts saying they want 1mill bbls more than that by tomorow, which drives up demand artificially). They'll get caught with their pants down if oil producers ever call their bluff. High stakes games like these require inside knowledge, and commodities marketeers + big oil= twin brothers DBA separate entities but profiting wildly off higher priced crude. Meanwhile the strawberry farm gets the steady paycheck with a few extra profits, but the world is mad at you thinking you're screwing with them.

What would the farmer do? He'd say- I sold it at a fair price. Whatever happened after that point is out of my control. Sounds alot like opec king, doesn't it?

[harborlady]

Oh BTW another player in this game is 'ports of convenience' who allow these characters to do business in their economies because they get tax base $$$ from it through transaction taxes. All happening electronically in digital age by invisible bandits who don't have a name or face, only a 'shell' corporation name.

[Hinton Bound]

Originally Posted by harborlady

What you are proposing suggests that we make enough in house (which we don't and never could at current demand levels even if ANWR were online), and what we did make would be "unfairly burdening oil companies" through price fixing, departing from the <alleged> free market. I can agree with this superficially as an emergency measure, but oil companies will not be motivated to keep up with demand if they cant get maximum profit. So too will the local guy with a derrick providing his crude claim he's being cheated when we cap oil at $100/bbl when open market is $150/bbl. You can't say thats a free market either.

The result will be deliberate heel dragging by local producers and bootleg oil/gas in open economy because the margins will attrack theives to export what we establish as cheaper. That was happening in 70's oil crisis btw- enforced only by irs agencies noticing how wealthy gas stations were getting but they were out of fuel. It went back offshore in barges, sold on higher international market for $$$ profits despite our shortages. China is currently subsidizing oil refineries 81% for their general population gas prices, and will make itself broke doing so.

The screwiest thing about oil- even when it isn't handled, transported, or anything at all (just sitting there) the price goes up exponentially from office type folks who make a living playing mind games. AKA the middleman from hell. It's called running up the market (driving up prices), it happens in financial centers like wall street, but that's not the only financial center in the world, nor are the people motivating all of this neccessarily american owned companies. That means congress has very limited jurisdiction, as does all of our govt, until we change our overall policies regarding international 'free trade' that isn't really free.


speculators in commodities market are deliberately raising prices that hurt all countries on this globe. see it now?
Bloomberg.com: U.K. & Ireland

Who says? Oil exporters themselves who didn't set that price- OPEC King calls for a meeting to smack some sense into people.
Saudi to call oil consumers-producers meet on prices | Reuters
Saudi summons the oil world over record price | U.S. | Reuters
They're also interested in getting regulations in place that would prevent speculators from running amok with financial schemes or weilding excess power over whole nations through politically motivated price fixing (chavez, russia, etc). ^5 King, its about time!

Here are advertizers from said speculators in commodities trading. Goldman sachs and morgan aren't as blatant with this drooling greed, but exert considerable influence in the market place unlike this small potato company.
The $20 Trillion Report

Metaphor that is more simplistically stated:
Imagine you had a farmstand selling strawberries. You have regular customers you like who are good and pay their bills for regular demand/revenue stream. A steady paycheck. Then you get a bunch of goons showing up at your farmstand making a ruckus saying- I want all of it- I'll pay you 50 cents more. Bidding wars, like real estate. Nothing about those strawberries changed, they just sat on a shelf appreciating astronomically. Then they turn to your regular customers and offer them strawberries for more than what they paid for doing nothing but making a ruckus.

Sometimes it happens in the parking lot when your regular customers are walking out with their purchase too- and you have no idea those goons are playing a game outside your doors. Your customers come back and say they need more, you sell more to them, they go back outside and make more profit from mark up forgetting about their own jam company. Why make jam when I can make more money in your parking lot? Big Oil companies do this at times without ever loading a barge by playing commodities market games themselves.

Same goons will go ahead and set a price 3x's on open market for guaranteed delivery contracts by choking the pipeline delivery system (knowing how much crude a producer is able to pump in a day and trying to sign contracts saying they want 1mill bbls more than that by tomorow, which drives up demand artificially). They'll get caught with their pants down if oil producers ever call their bluff. High stakes games like these require inside knowledge, and commodities marketeers + big oil= twin brothers DBA separate entities but profiting wildly off higher priced crude. Meanwhile the strawberry farm gets the steady paycheck with a few extra profits, but the world is mad at you thinking you're screwing with them.

What would the farmer do? He'd say- I sold it at a fair price. Whatever happened after that point is out of my control. Sounds alot like opec king, doesn't it?

I smell Revolution in the air! Oh wait, hardly anyone has a gun and our communications are all monitored. The most sophisticated slavery system ever devised grinds on.

[x1x]

I'm thinking this is somewhat like the old game of supply and demand!!! If you got a good supply, then create demand by any method you can to make a healthy profit!!!

[David Kennedy]

We did cap our wells...in the nineties...the companies were forced to cap them because of eco laws...it really hurt Wv at that time. Many were old forgotton wells that were only on the books and not producing...were capped anyway...now that gas is worth billions and the money to the land owner is in the thousands per year instead of nothing, as was the case before...
and the jepoardy was placed squarely on the land owner...I was told that I might have to plug our well and it would take about 10 truckloads of cement to do that...plus the labor...back in the days of my grand dad..the wells were plugged with a fence post and a load of dirt...worked ok by their standards and I never heard of a well blowing out the plug...but todays a different game...escaping gas? has never been a problem in WV...the old coal companies would let the bleedoff pipes burn for years...was a novelty and got rid of the bugs at night...they didn't not own the gas then and it was a hindrance...similar to the biproduct gas at refineries...all that is recovered now..if we can have windmills ruining our mountain landscapes, we should have a few hundred oil rigs off the coast of California too...where's pelosi?

[harborlady]

hinton- dept of homeland terrorism said howdie.

DK surprised they don't reclaim them somehow, or at least back track to who installed them to make coal companies with mineral rights responsible. Craddle to grave rules should apply on federal level if EPA has a problem with them being there. I'm wondering if that whole thing didn't get steam from that 1987 texas baby jessica stuck in an oil well covered over by a flowerpot. The timeline for armchair quarterback legislation adds up.

[harborlady]

Originally Posted by x1x

I'm thinking this is somewhat like the old game of supply and demand!!! If you got a good supply, then create demand by any method you can to make a healthy profit!!!

x1x if you knew little old ladies would be resorting to catfood groceries to cover the heating bill in winter up north because they've little or no choice, would it still be that innocent?

Ethically speaking, this is up there with pimps, drug dealers, and dirty politicians. All very profitable, but not something decent people consider as proffession.