saving gas $ (loft, new home, school)

[citybilly]

I think we have to , somehow, get out of that mindset of "convenience=progress" or we will never get out of this fix we created. It made sense at the time to displace railroads with trucks and plane shipping, and we probably can't do much about that. But then in the 50s, Los Angeles and other urban areas convinced everybody to buy more cars and fuel, and abandon the fine rail transit system that was in place. Before long, they were choking to death and running out of space, begging people to carpool, and take the bus. ....now LA is trying to rebuild a rail system, @ something like a billion dollars a mile. Not that I am against it, just pointing out the irony. It's what I do.
Since I wasn't in WV, I can only speculate that they had some sort of inter-urban train system, based on old tracks I see under streets, and names like, Old traction Road, probably electric cars. Boy, have we _ _ _ _ ed things up. that's progress?
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[Threerun]

If anyone is interested I developed a quick spread to compare vehicles. The parameters are to plug in the average retail price, EPA estimates (you blend them based on your type of driving), your estimated monthly mileage driven, average cost of fuel, monthly insurance cost, monthly estimated maintainence costs and estimated loan payment.

It will then calculate a montly cost to operate, which you can compare amongt various vehicle types, etc.. Play with the variables to see where the cost of fuel would have to be in order for a hybrid to break even.

I compared a Toyota Corolla to a Prius to a Subaru Baja and typed in my current Dodge 2500 Ram diesel and my Jeep Grand Cherokee.

(The Corolla makes more sense in this scenario and the Jeep is of course a certifiable FSP- fuel sucking pig)

[Big_Al]

Diesel is not a good choice today. In general it is a great choice and hope it will always be. I considered buying one earlier, now I just see no point in it.(for myself)
Super micro Smarts of Renaults would be extreme for suburban/rural US but mass downsizing to Focus-size would help. I have 2 door focus and volvo v50 wagon, both makes 30mpg highway average and 26 mix cycle. I can do extensive Lowe's shopping once I fold backseats. I don't need bigger SUV or even crossover to get the same cargo space. I tow a small trailer (motorcycle, pop=up) with my Focus. No problems.
We need to change minds. High oil prices will help us to do it.
P.S. I downsized from grand Marquis to Focus 2-3 weeks before 2005 gas spike ($2- remember how scary was everybody?

[snorpus]

While we've been talking about automobiles, another scary aspect is the cost of home heating oil. (At least it is to me, since HHO is what my system switches to, when it's too cold for the heat pump.)

I paid $3/gal last fall, it looks like it's going to be closer to $4/gal this year. A lot of the Northeast uses oil. And switching isn't as easy as trading one car for another.

[Threerun]

Maybe right at this moment a diesel is not a good choice if you are comparison shopping an equivalent gasser, but I think the prices will be swinging back towwards par before to long. From what I understand, refineries are already moving that way.

Just by virtue of the efficiencies and fuel flexibilities, I think diesel will be part of a comprehensive long term strategy.

Heck, if they can make JP out of algae, it's gonna be here to stay and we will all be converting one bathtub in the house to grow fuel stock!

[harborlady]

snorp that's no joke, I know exactly what you're talking about. When I left NY my landlady had to pay $1,700 for oil delivery. Not sure how long that lasts- maybe 6 months? It's something of a double whammy on long island, too, because the electric company uses petro based generation. Kerosene, oil, and NG, but not all plants are geared for NG. Electric rates were about 18cents kwh for suffolk county, and a 'fuel surcharge' added onto that because their operating costs increased.

Do you have a secondary heat source, like fireplace?

Latest GOOD news I found...
Honda rolls out new zero-emission car - 06/16/2008 - MiamiHerald.com (broken link)

[snorpus]

Yes, fortunately, I have a Morso wood stove, as well as a regular (inefficient) fireplace.

The last kid leaves for college in August, so I can shut off some rooms, turn down the thermostat, etc.

And there's always the big Lab to keep me warm.

[Threerun]

I used an extra large Dutchwest woodstove to heat my last house.

We typically burned between 5-6 cords a year, depending on the weather.

[Hinton Bound]

Does anyone ahve experience with a wood furnace, or an external wood boiler? As I have a pretty healthy supply of wood, I'd like to use that before paying for a secondary heat source. Aside from the inconvenience of having to keep wood in it, are they efficient as a primary heat source for the home and hot water?

Regarding diesel fuel- Over the weekend, I saw with my own eyes, a diesel pickup truck that ran on used vegetable oil. I had read about it, but never saw it. The guy collects it from restaurants and converts it. He said it's costing about 80 cents a gallon to produce. He has to remember to switch to regular diesel before shutting the truck off, as it won't start on vegetable oil.

[Threerun]

An outdoor wood furnace, properly sized, can heat your house and provide hot water. The drawback is that they pollute a lot more than EPA certified wood stoves and they typically consume a lot of wood. I mean A LOT of wood. They're also pretty expensive to purchase and install unless you know how to fashion one yourself.

An old client of mine heated his 3,000 sq ft house, 1,800 sq. ft shop AND his outdoor pool with a big outdoor furnace and he chewed through maybe 15+ cords a year.

If you have a lot of wooded property (In my opinion that would be over 20acres solid), and can run the underground pipes and install the exchangers yourself (assuming you have forced air), then it would be a good benefit.

I'm not a huge fan of indoor furnaces either, because they are also quite dirty and are generally never installed correctly. The only one that I saw correctly installed was my old neighbor (who is a contractor and firefighter). He had a fresh air intake, properly sized, to provide external air to the furnance (which avoids negative pressure in the house), and two main trunks, one providing heated air from the furnance to the plenum above the air handler, and one hooked into the return air. Each one was baffled correctly to avoid cross air-flow and the entire unit was hard wired to his thermostat. When his termostat called for heat, the air stoker in the firebox kicked on and when the temp in the firebox reached optimum, the furnance blower AND the air handler kicked on in conjunction with one another to provide heat, and lots of it.

He used about 8 cords a year to heat a 1,600 sq foot rancher and also his basement. The main drawback is that it is also very, very dirty on the chimney and he had to clean it monthly. When you think about it, his system sits there and smolders until heat is called for, and smoldering cool fire produces the most creasote. Then you get a super blast of heated exhaust temps, which typically causes chimney fires. All in all it's not too risky if you have a one story rancher and don't mind frequently brushing it, but that's a lot of work for most folks.

The Dutchwest I had was a freestanding woodstove that heated a really big area (interior volume wise). It kept about 2,000 sq. ft of house warm in the winter. It had a catalytic converter which really fried the smoke, so I only had to clean my chimney once a year. It also sipped wood compared to those furnaces. Of course the downside is feeding it inside within finished space, but I'd rather sweep wood and ash from the hearth rather than get on a steeply pitched 2 story roof and brush the chimney once a month...