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Old 06-06-2008, 09:14 AM
 
Location: Lost in Montana *recalculating*...
4,890 posts, read 7,640,651 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harborlady View Post
three- and how many know about folks living so deep rural that an electric car would leave them stranded 3/4's of the way to walmart? some of their roads aren't even paved- electric cars arent likely to work for them. it cant solve all things. but for those it does solve problems for, it should help price of gas come down for those rare rural folks who have little choice but to carry on with same old same old. Heck, LI solved it's snow plowing problem by having a master list of call on people with plows on their trucks for snow emergencies- they can still make things pay for themselves if they put in a bit of effort.
The first generation electric vehicles are looking at 40 miles before the gasser kicks in. That's just the first generation.

And yes, electric / non-petro vehicles won't solve all things, but it certainly would solve most of it, especially if you look at the average trip mileage on a national basis.

As far as rural folks getting by? I'm sure they will get by (the true rural folks). However if you personally opted to live an hour plus away from work, isn't the onus on them?

That's the numero uno reason why I chose to relocate to an area close to work. It really wasn't an option.

Yesterday I drove down 18 South in Doddridge County with my boss. I showed him a 4 square stone farmhouse / property that I looked at before I bought in Bridgeport. We calculated it would have cost me $5,200 per year in commuting costs had I bought out there. Even if the property did come with free gas APO, it still ain't worth it.

For those that were born and raised in areas like that but seek work outside their homesteads, they simply have to adapt somehow. I knew folks in Hampshire County near Three Churches that worked construction jobs in and around DC back in the 60's, 70's and 80's.. They loaded up the truck, three men abreast, all their tools and drove to town early Monday a.m. and spent the night in cheap rooms throughout the week, returning home on Thursday night.

I suspect folks will be doing a lot of the same in the years to come, until some alternatives come to fruition.
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Old 06-06-2008, 10:43 AM
 
11,962 posts, read 7,759,415 times
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Yeah three- thats what one of the guys on the block does- they head up to ohio for work and are gone for 4 days at a clip. Just doesn't pay for crew to commute.
rural folks I was talking about are the ones that have no massive stores nearby so they have to make a trek out for supplies every now and again. where their money comes from is another story. electric cars I see only working for urban environments. hybrids are more independent from a cord.

Wonder whatever happened to those hybrids that were bragging 60mpg hahahahaa. Some initial reports were as high as 70mpg, debunked after a year or so.
One of the barge inspectors had a hybrid camry for about a year- I asked him is it worth it? He said HELL YEAH- he traveled all over new england all the way down to va regularly, got reimbursed mileage money 32cents a miles based on regular car. Told me it took him some getting used to, the instinct that somehow your car keeps stalling when you don't hear the engine, but he got over it early. The warranty on the battery got extended to 10yrs, he had no problems with it whatsoever, and said he was laughing all the way to the bank. It had pretty much the same space as a regular camry. Depreciation of the car was a write off for him on taxes due to the nature of his job.
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Old 06-06-2008, 11:12 AM
 
Location: Western Pennsylvania
2,383 posts, read 4,512,088 times
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Assuming we (as a society and an economy) pursue energy efficiency (we were warned in the '70s, but didn't heed the warning), there are a number of adaptations/shifts that will occur.

That 40mi range will gradually shift upwards. 100 miles should be fairly easy, and would probably cover 95% of daily commuting needs. We might see electric filling stations capable of recharging some future battery technology in 5 minutes or so, just like a gasoline filling station. Or the batteries might become modular plug-ins, with standard form factors, that can be swapped in a few minutes. Employers might put outlets in the parking lots for recharging while at work, like they do in Minnesota to run the battery warmers.

Maybe in rural areas, home delivery makes a comeback. The day of the milkman and the Nickle's bread man could make a resurgence. Local general stores might have a weapon to use against the big box retailers 30 miles away. I'm already starting to mentally calculate the cost of trips... my Cobalt gets in the low 30s, so at $4/gallon, I use about $0.125/mile in gas... call it 8 miles per dollar. WalMart is about $2 away, full-blown malls about $5, round trip, the convenience store down the road about 25 cents. Will I save $1.75 going to WalMart vs the convenience store?

My son at Penn State just told me that the local transit agency there just doubled the frequency of their buses, as more people take the bus instead of drive.
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Old 06-06-2008, 11:14 AM
 
Location: Lost in Montana *recalculating*...
4,890 posts, read 7,640,651 times
Reputation: 3731
HL- Well if you figure an electric / hybrid, one that runs on all electric for the first 40 miles, most folks, even rural, will get a great deal of benefit from it until it requires a 100% switch to the gasser. But even then with a moderate displacement engine and light chasis, they should still get above average mpg.

It's not to say it wouldn't work, becuase it would, it's just they wouldn't get as much benefit as would an urban end-user. And even then, a lot of suburban folks that live an hour away from work would fall into the same category as the rural folks.

Snorpus- I agree. I could see electric refilling stations easily. Heck, when the weather was bad I'd drive my truck to the garage and find a spot that an outlet box nearby and plug 'er in to keep her warm

Last edited by Threerun; 06-06-2008 at 11:47 AM..
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Old 06-06-2008, 11:54 AM
 
Location: nunya
566 posts, read 1,012,583 times
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Next to a vacuum gauge on the dash, the ScanGaugeII - Trip Computers + Digital Gauges + Scan Tool is the best MPG saver. I rate the vac gauge higher because it's cheaper and easier to install. Vac gauges start at $7 and the Scangauge was $179. But the Scangauge will tell you much more, instantly.

I would like to build a hybrid (forget the proper hybrid term) which runs off of a small gas or diesel powered generator. Currently looking for a 19 spline/5spd transaxle.

With electric motors, you have all the torque available from 0mph to maximum mph. And, with a manual trans, you will shift gears, but do not need a clutch. The heavy flywheel, pressure plate....all clutch compoments can be left out. Much less exhaust piping and a smaller fuel tank... the car just keeps getting lighter as you build it. 200mpg! Do it.
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Old 06-06-2008, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Lost in Montana *recalculating*...
4,890 posts, read 7,640,651 times
Reputation: 3731
In my opinion, diesel and hybrid electrics are like peas and carrots. It makes a hell of a lot more sense to blend the most efficient fuel Btu wise with the benefit of electric. I could see some rigs using some serious hybrid technology.

Freggin' torque-monsters
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Old 06-06-2008, 12:13 PM
 
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Are you indicating diesel and natural gas/ air injection combo?

The issue is emission standards in California...they want those everywhere...
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Old 06-06-2008, 12:26 PM
 
Location: nunya
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Look at locomotives and the huge dumps used in strip mining and earth moving, powered by electric via generator.
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Old 06-06-2008, 12:37 PM
 
11,962 posts, read 7,759,415 times
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two if you ever build a 200mpg hybrid, & can retrofit my car, I'd be very interested in buying. (no, I dont have or want a monster truck lol)

I remember seeing some kind of turbo kit advertized- was supposed to inject more air into your engine and increase gas mileage. Looked like bunk so I ignored it. Was I right to ignore it?
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Old 06-06-2008, 12:46 PM
 
Location: nunya
566 posts, read 1,012,583 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harborlady View Post
two if you ever build a 200mpg hybrid, & can retrofit my car, I'd be very interested in buying. (no, I dont have or want a monster truck lol)

I remember seeing some kind of turbo kit advertized- was supposed to inject more air into your engine and increase gas mileage. Looked like bunk so I ignored it. Was I right to ignore it?
If it was was the Tornado gas saver, yes you were right to skip it.

There aren't many gadgets that will help your MPG. (excluding engine modifications)

The gauges I talked about will help with driving habits and monitoring the state of tuning in your car.
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