need home for under 20,000 (mortgage, loan, new house)

[harborlady]

Originally Posted by LilyLaLa

If you're out of reach of public water/sewer systems, is a septic tank your only choice in WV?

Can you install (for instance) a reed-bed system, composting toilet system, or other more eco-friendly option?
Any idea what those would cost locally?

Spending 12,000 for your septic system, darstar, is almost exactly what OUR quote was for a new system, here in Ireland--the landscape is much the same in places; we're over limestone karst with mountains and lakes all around.

Lily funny you should mention that. I read a book called humanure (sawdust toilets) that challenged WV laws among many other states into reviewing this non standard version of septic management. I believe the outcome was something to the effect of- if it isn't close to your neighbors property line and if it isn't near a water source they let it go. Do it yourself low tech, no plumbing/sewage costs, the long composting cycles and higher internal temps fry up contaminations and get tilled into pasture readily. What you take out of the soil goes back into the soil on site. The guy who wrote it has raised a few kids on his farm with this method and they all lived to tell the tale without incident.
Similar situation for what's been considered grey water in the past, the higher levels of fecal coliforms found in showering/laundry water are best not used for crop irrigation but inedible flower beds or decorative plants are more ideally suited.

[LilyLaLa]

Exactly--look at waste 'disposal' when we all go camping; not all campgrounds have flushing toilets (and not all kids make it to the toilets in the dark after their batteries give out!)

Reed bed systems are legal with some restrictions in Ireland, and a lot of people use the 'humanure' method or similar composting method: the nicest ones are the ones that still use a flushing toilet, but the nasty bits get washed into a chamber that composts everything before you have to deal with it. Only problem I find is, you can't bleach your toilet without interfering with the composting process.

Great if you have forestry or woodland to feed, and with many systems visitors would never know any different. No water bills if you use grey water. $12K for a septic tank, I mean, Lord.

[darstar]

I would have no where to put anything , compost won't work here. I had to actually build a 40 foot square drain field with sand , then lay pipes , cover with sand, then soil. All had to be hauled in and up the mountain. All is worth it , I have a 50 mile view of Lake Superior.......winter snow removable will be the most challenging .We get 300 to 400 inches..My well was 330 feet , thru solid granite. cost , 8,000. , electric, 5,000 , and general grading-footers, cement block basement, all above grade, with backfill, another 18,000. All this , just to get a 1500 sq ft cottage on top of the mountain.
My costs are not out of line at all. I know people on flat ground who have spent more. Be it a mobile home , or a stick built , costs are about the same up here, if , you want your own property, private , no other structures in site , just lots of maple, Aspen , Hemlock,pine , and huge boulders.

[David Kennedy]

It's a county code call...some counties still allow the old leaning 'John....'outhouse' for the flatlanders...

[darstar]

Originally Posted by David Kennedy

It's a county code call...some counties still allow the old leaning 'John....'outhouse' for the flatlanders...

It was good enough for my Grandparents.......they lived to a ripe old age without indoor plumbing, and , were just as clean and educated as anyone else, maybe more so these days.

[LilyLaLa]

Our home county was recently in the newspapers for the number of residents without indoor plumbing...STILL, despite recent economic boom times and being in such a small and prosperous country.

There are government grants available for these folks to get indoor bathrooms and running water to their kitchens--they just don't bother applying. If it's working for you, you know.... !!

We've been considering some of the ex-hunting cabins out in the wilds along with the pretty town Victorians while we're house-shopping, so this subject is definitely one to think about...thanks for starting the thread, and for all the information it's bringing up.

[harborlady]

darstar and lily-- the humaure guy did his thing successfully in vermont so temp can be managed. Key to making sure it heats right & keep it odor free outside is to keep it covered with biomass (leaves, dirt, straw, more sawdust- whatever you've got).

humanure system indoors you don't use a regular toilet so no bleach required. you build a frame with a hole in it, get a home depot 5 gallon pail, and another pail for sawdust with a scoop. clean out the pails outdoors with bleach- no problemo. that's all folks. so simple its not even funny. this wont work in urban settings, you'd need acreage to use this system, and if you're buying a prebuilt with the plumbing & septic already installed, space may be more at a premium to not bother using this system unless your soil needs all the help it can get from extreme composting. For a barn or distant gazebo, it's an alternative to stretching out pumbing to remote locations.

Lily i think you might be confusing humanure system for a mouldering toilet- its a different animal. google mouldering vs humanure, you'll see what i mean.

[Threerun]

I had a natural outdoor toilet at my last place. It was a fallen sycamore log in the woods with a nearby folgers coffee can filled with Charmin.

[darstar]

Originally Posted by harborlady

darstar and lily-- the humaure guy did his thing successfully in vermont so temp can be managed. Key to making sure it heats right & keep it odor free outside is to keep it covered with biomass (leaves, dirt, straw, more sawdust- whatever you've got).

humanure system indoors you don't use a regular toilet so no bleach required. you build a frame with a hole in it, get a home depot 5 gallon pail, and another pail for sawdust with a scoop. clean out the pails outdoors with bleach- no problemo. that's all folks. so simple its not even funny. this wont work in urban settings, you'd need acreage to use this system, and if you're buying a prebuilt with the plumbing & septic already installed, space may be more at a premium to not bother using this system unless your soil needs all the help it can get from extreme composting. For a barn or distant gazebo, it's an alternative to stretching out pumbing to remote locations.

Lily i think you might be confusing humanure system for a mouldering toilet- its a different animal. google mouldering vs humanure, you'll see what i mean.

I will stick with the good old , Septic Standard , ..in fact , I would have little choice , considering the Health Department rules , when getting a building permit. An alternate system , could be installed after the fact , but , why bother , when , you have already up front costs , as , required by the County. The first hurdle when applying for a permit , IS , passing the Health dept. requirements........now we are working on snow load rules.

[harborlady]

Originally Posted by Threerun

I had a natural outdoor toilet at my last place. It was a fallen sycamore log in the woods with a folgers coffee can filled with Charmin situated close by.

I save folgers cans for cooking grease so it doesn't kill my pipes. while I was camping I saw a dude who brought one of those porta potty's for bedridden (a chair with a hole in it where a basin slides in). He set it up behind a tree, dug a cat hole directly underneath, had newspapers in plastic ziplock besides the chair. Kind of comical looking but it worked.


darstar- ordinances are what they are- i certainly can't argue what your situation is. I know humanure systems got lots of grief from municipalities mostly because they were clueless how they operated and it took challenges of law to educate them about the systems. similar to non standard architecture problems. hard to get permits when they don't have a clue how these things work and what the real issues are about. Know what I mean?
The upside to humanure systems for long term and short term is that you don't waste good water on chit. It gets recycled directly back into your land, retaining soil health, and saving money on costly plumbing/septic systems-- its definately not for everyone. For the elderly or infirmed, composting might be too much work. It has no place being in urban areas, like I had mentioned. It's also a health issue for water quality if too close to those sources. Maybe that's why they refused you? Your perks come out ok?