Morgantown now #4 largest in state.... (Charleston, Huntington: best city, leases, coop)

[tbailey1138]

Originally Posted by WVUPharm2007

That's not really a result of less overall grocery demand as it is a larger chain gaining a monopoly...

I wasn't implying that it was the result of less grocery demand, just noting that the area couldn't support what was there along with the new development. That's over development when you can't support the existing and new businesses. Not sure about Food Lion but Bi-Lo always had a pretty good following. It was very convenient for the people in Suncrest and Star City.

[CTMountaineer]

Originally Posted by tbailey1138

Marshall's overall enrollment is down because of the split with the community and technical college. The two used to be counted together, now they are not. Freshman enrollment is increasing though and by adding more programs, they are adding Marshall to the list for more students. Marshall is becoming more attractive to students with more programs and better facilities. They are increasing their research initiatives and doing as much as they can to become a more research focused university. They are also making more money in C-USA than they did in the MAC. The problem there has been a step down in the quality of the coach. If you add more programs, better facilities and thus more students, then you have more tuition coming in and can afford to pay the teachers more. I think Marshall has to do things like this to grow and I like the direction they are going in. And for the record, MU forensics program started in 1994 while WVUs started in 1997, so who was playing catch up by adding that degree?
MUFSC: About MUFSC
WVU Today » Press Release » WVU forensic program: universal acclaim, international faculty, employable grads

Morgantown is currently seeing more growth than Huntington, no doubt. But what you are failing to realize is that the 2 weren't on a level playing field to begin with. Morgantown was just declared the main city of a micropolitan area in 2000 so in essence, it just showed up on the map to developers. Things that Morgantown is just getting, Huntington has had for 5, 10 or even 15 years. So while they are developing more currently, they are still playing catch up. If you'll notice too, this development is beginning to slow. Planned buildings aren't being built downtown like the one where the old Greyhound station was. And apartments/condos are being put on hold or stopped without explanation as to why. Then there's the Suncrest Towncentre that is being built even though the developer has been unable to find tennants and the ones that he had backed out because they saw the area becoming oversaturated. But he's building it anyway. Also, even though there is new development, you haven't mentioned what it's done to the existing businesses. Many have closed or are on the verge of it because they can't compete in such a small market. And you'll never convince me that it's better to have another city's symphony visit than it is to have your own. When you have to rely on another city's/area's merits to count as your own, it will never be as good as having it yourself. And for where they are going to build that new WVU art museum, the HMA will likely still be the largest in the state.

I'll limit this because I think that we are just going to have to agree to disagree, or else this could go on forever. The good thing is though, that we are both able to show signs of growth, culture and a positive attitude that are happening in WV. Hopefully, that will continue to be the case and I have great confidence that it will.
Tim

Let's see... you actually believe Marshall had a step down in quality of coach when Pruett broke every rule in the book, got his program on double whammy probation, lost scholarships for years, and cast the school in a bad light like he did? He left the program in complete shambles. Snyder is still trying to rebuild it, and only this year does he have a full compliment of scholarships. For the life of me, I can never understand why Bobby walks on water in Huntington after the way he did things.

You are right about who had the first forensic program. I didn't realize that, but WVU developed theirs because they saw the opportunity with the FBI right down the road. It had nothing to do with Marshall. It was the FBI that helped set it up. Marshall's enrollment was on the downswing before they took away their community college. They have not yet released this year's official enrollment figures for Marshall. I wonder why? Just how many new freshmen did the school get from basically doing away with out-of-state tuition, from entering into long term leases for facilities when there is no assurance that there will be bodies to pay the bills, and from spending money on an underfunded program when their staff is so underpaid? I guess time will tell, won't it?

I fail to understand your point in terms of the name on the symphony. It is, after all, the quality of the music that counts. You could call it the Bug Tuck symphony for that matter. Most of the musicians are not from the respective areas anyway. The University has many symphonic performances in its own right as well. There is literally something to do there every night. You point out that Morgantown is seeing more growth than Huntington. I certainly agree, but fail to see how Huntington is growing at all. They expected development to slow somewhat in Morgantown with the current economy, but it is still going surprisingly well. You probably didn't see the article in the Dominion Post today about Biafora's likely new tenants for Suncrest. Just what existing businesses left the area? If any did, someone else took their place. There are few vacancies in the downtown area.

And, just what has Huntington had for 15 years that Morgantown is just getting? I'd be interested in learning about that. I only know what I see, and they seem to have a lot more going on in Morgantown. That said, I'm an old guy and I do remember when Huntington, Charleston, and Wheeling were actually thriving cities with much larger populations. Each of them has taken a big nosedive in the past 25 years. I literally watched it happen. Those cities have lost from 30 to 50% of their populations and an equal portion of their industrial bases. It is sad to see. Morgantown and Martinsburg are basically the only bright spots.

[tbailey1138]

Originally Posted by CTMountaineer

You are right about who had the first forensic program. I didn't realize that, but WVU developed theirs because they saw the opportunity with the FBI right down the road. It had nothing to do with Marshall.

I fail to understand your point in terms of the name on the symphony. It is, after all, the quality of the music that counts. You could call it the Bug Tuck symphony for that matter. Most of the musicians are not from the respective areas anyway.

There is literally something to do there every night. You point out that Morgantown is seeing more growth than Huntington. I certainly agree, but fail to see how Huntington is growing at all.

And, just what has Huntington had for 15 years that Morgantown is just getting? I'd be interested in learning about that. I only know what I see, and they seem to have a lot more going on in Morgantown.

Never said Pruett walked on water. He was a good coach but not a good recruiter and that's part of why Snyder has had the trouble that he's had. Synder is a good recruiter but just can't seem to pull the talent that he has together. He's got of lot of talented kids on the team but just makes some poor decisions sometimes. Funny about your comment about the forensics programs though. If WVU had it first, MU was just copying but since MU had it first WVU's decision was made completely separate from that fact. Sounds like a double standard to me.

With the symphony, the difference isn't the name but rather the fact that Huntington has it's own symphony to put on multiple shows throughout the year rather than a short series of 2-3 concerts by a visiting symphony, if they feel like coming at all. Listen to one of their performances and you'll see that the quality certainly isn't lacking. And not only does Huntington have it's own symphony that performs in the most beautiful performing arts center in WV, but Marshall has one as well.

And in terms of things to do, Huntington also has something going on nearly every night if one would choose to do every thing available. You mentioned that you are older and I think this is what clouds your judgement of Huntington. You've seen the older Huntington and you watched it decline. I am younger and grew up here. I've seen Huntington begin to grow and develop like I've never seen in my lifetime, especially in the last 5 years. Growth is measured in more than just population gains or losses. Here's an article that helps show some of this. It's about a group from Huntington that is trying to help the entire state by providing free services. Here's a brief quote from the part about Huntington "Charles Holley, Huntington’s director of planning, says the project is the fourth phase of the downtown revitalization plan. The first three phases were tied to improving accessibility to Pullman Square in the downtown core. That effort cost $2.7 million but accounted in 2007 for $11 million in increased property values, 21 new businesses, and $237,000 in new property tax revenue." Sounds like growth and development to me and that's just a small part of it.
Architects Offer Free Community Design | Create West Virginia

And for things Huntington has had for 15 years that Morgantown is just getting, a Red Lobster is one. It took almost 15 years to get an Olive Garden up there along with a Cracker Barrel, 12 to be more precise. There are other things they still don't have or don't even have the equivalent of like a Civic Center for major concerts, a kitchen specialty store, or even a large national chain toy store, to name a few. The growth in Morgantown is great but give Huntington it's dues. Again, I live here and am participating in this growth so I see it firsthand rather than living a few states away.

If you would like to continue this back and forth, let's do it through PMs for the sake of everyone else because I don't think either one of us is going to budge on this issue.
Tim

[WVUPharm2007]

Originally Posted by tbailey1138

There are other things they still don't have or don't even have the equivalent of like a Civic Center for major concerts

Um...the Coliseum...the Creative Arts Center?

a kitchen specialty store

There's one of those up in the UTC. I bought some Cephalon pots there last fall.

or even a large national chain toy store

Well, the only really big one is Toys r us and they aren't growing themselves or else they'd probably be opening a store in Mtown.

[tbailey1138]

Originally Posted by WVUPharm2007

Um...the Coliseum...the Creative Arts Center?


There's one of those up in the UTC. I bought some Cephalon pots there last fall.


Well, the only really big one is Toys r us and they aren't growing themselves or else they'd probably be opening a store in Mtown.

The Coliseum is a basketball facility that hosts usually about 1-2 concerts a year through some WVU special engagement. And don't even think about having something like a circus in there on the floor. The CAC is a performing arts center that holds less than 1500 seats. It's not a multi-use facility like arenas are. They do bring in some good performances there though, don't get me wrong. But Morgantown lacks an arena with several thousand seats for MAJOR concerts on a regular basis like Huntington, Charleston and even Wheeling have.

And you can buy Calphalon at Wal-Mart but that doesn't make it a kitchen specialty store. Bed, Bath and Beyond is a home store. A kitchen specialty store just sales things for the kitchen. Stores like The Kitchen Collection or Le Cook Store. They have better quality stuff and more of it.

With regards to a toy store, Morgantown used to have a Kay-Bee toy store but that left about 3-4 years ago. Now there is no national chain toy store there.

I didn't write this as a "look what we have" type of thing, I promise. This was only written in response to the question that CTM posed. He's acting like Morgantown is this metropolis that has EVERYTHING while the other cities in the state are dying and decaying and that's just not the case. This is a great state full of great cities with lots to offer. If posts are made that promote an area and show what they have without making outrageous claims or putting other cities down, then I think that's wonderful. But when the false statistics and put downs start flying to attempt to build one area up and tear another one down, I do take issue with that and feel like I have to repspond to set the record straight. This forum is meant to showcase this state and its cities and I don't feel like we do that when we get into a back and forth like this. I've said my piece and those who read this and have actually visited the cities can be the judge. Otherwise, I think this conversation has become counter-productive to promoting this state and I will not comment on it for awhile. If anyone would like to continue this through PMs, I invite you to do so.
Tim

[CTMountaineer]

Originally Posted by tbailey1138

Never said Pruett walked on water. He was a good coach but not a good recruiter and that's part of why Snyder has had the trouble that he's had. Synder is a good recruiter but just can't seem to pull the talent that he has together. He's got of lot of talented kids on the team but just makes some poor decisions sometimes. Funny about your comment about the forensics programs though. If WVU had it first, MU was just copying but since MU had it first WVU's decision was made completely separate from that fact. Sounds like a double standard to me.

With the symphony, the difference isn't the name but rather the fact that Huntington has it's own symphony to put on multiple shows throughout the year rather than a short series of 2-3 concerts by a visiting symphony, if they feel like coming at all. Listen to one of their performances and you'll see that the quality certainly isn't lacking. And not only does Huntington have it's own symphony that performs in the most beautiful performing arts center in WV, but Marshall has one as well.

And in terms of things to do, Huntington also has something going on nearly every night if one would choose to do every thing available. You mentioned that you are older and I think this is what clouds your judgement of Huntington. You've seen the older Huntington and you watched it decline. I am younger and grew up here. I've seen Huntington begin to grow and develop like I've never seen in my lifetime, especially in the last 5 years. Growth is measured in more than just population gains or losses. Here's an article that helps show some of this. It's about a group from Huntington that is trying to help the entire state by providing free services. Here's a brief quote from the part about Huntington "Charles Holley, Huntington’s director of planning, says the project is the fourth phase of the downtown revitalization plan. The first three phases were tied to improving accessibility to Pullman Square in the downtown core. That effort cost $2.7 million but accounted in 2007 for $11 million in increased property values, 21 new businesses, and $237,000 in new property tax revenue." Sounds like growth and development to me and that's just a small part of it.
Architects Offer Free Community Design | Create West Virginia

And for things Huntington has had for 15 years that Morgantown is just getting, a Red Lobster is one. It took almost 15 years to get an Olive Garden up there along with a Cracker Barrel, 12 to be more precise. There are other things they still don't have or don't even have the equivalent of like a Civic Center for major concerts, a kitchen specialty store, or even a large national chain toy store, to name a few. The growth in Morgantown is great but give Huntington it's dues. Again, I live here and am participating in this growth so I see it firsthand rather than living a few states away.

If you would like to continue this back and forth, let's do it through PMs for the sake of everyone else because I don't think either one of us is going to budge on this issue.
Tim

Things to do in Morgantown:

Click on any link at the top of the page... Arts&Entertainment - West Virginia University

Look for upcoming events here... College of Creative Arts

3 Pittsburgh Symphony Concerts ... WVU Today » Press Release » Pittsburgh Symphony returns to WVU with Broadway star Cavanaugh

Wheeling Symphony ... http://www.morgantown.com/pictures/symphony-GOOD-i.jpg

and that doesn't count the athletic events with WVU's nationally renowned varsity athletic teams... http://www.msnsportsnet.com/images/topWVLogo2.jpg

Morgantown Awards ... Morgantown Awards Continue to grow

And, just this week Microsoft Network ranked Morgantown #6 in the Nation for good job prospects this year.

Private arts endeavors ...
Arts Monongahela

Since you are into comparisons, show us how Huntington measures up with that.

I do have to admit, however, that Huntington is a better place to hold a circus.

I see where the Huntington Symphony has four concerts scheduled, but one of those is a kids concert ... Huntington Symphony Orchestra of Huntington, West Virginia

The Wheeling Symphony actually does much better ... Wheeling Symphony Orchestra - Wheeling, WV - Season Calendar

There is presently more than $200 million in construction going on within the Morgantown city limits, and that doesn't count outlying areas such as Granville or the more than $1 billion Longview Power Plant being constructed near the city... Developments in Morgantown

New Marshall Renta-Dorm projects being built on the cheap ... Huntington News

Will the new Renta-Rec. Center be a white elephant? Hummm.

According to StateUniversity.com Marshall has a full time Freshman enrollment of 1,693. West Virginia's full time freshman class on the Main Campus is 5,180. Since most of WVU's students are in-residence, which do you thing will have the greater effect on the respective cities?

There is no question that Marshall contibutes substantially to whatever Huntington has to offer. In fact, it is the major thing Huntington has to offer. Hopefully it will remain so in spite of some potentially unwise decisions being made there. I think Marshall is a wonderful place, but it doesn't have anywhere close to the impact WVU has overall. I would think that would be obvious to any objective observer.

[ctenanthe]

In Morgantown...regarding the Suncrest area with the new Kroger, they are building a new Hilton Garden Inn. Any word on what else will be going into the new buildings there?

[WVUPharm2007]

Originally Posted by ctenanthe

In Morgantown...regarding the Suncrest area with the new Kroger, they are building a new Hilton Garden Inn. Any word on what else will be going into the new buildings there?

Yay...a non pissing match post!

I heard the name of a restaurant, but I've since forgotten it. I have no idea other than that...perhaps David Kennedy can call some of his construction friends and find out for us.

[creemarie]

I have been reading this "pissing match" and am finding it a bit irritating. CTM: you obviously love Morgantown, and Bailey, you obviously love Huntington and that's fine. There is no point in this constant back and forth, because neither one of you is going to change the other person's mind. This forum is for information and opinions, but I think it's getting a bit out of hand!

Here's my 2 cents. I was born and raised in Morgantown, graduated from WVU, and a lot of my family still lives in Morgantown. However, I have lived in Huntington for the past four years, and these are my personal observations.

Morgantown is fine, but there are A LOT of college students. That makes it difficult to have a sense of community when so many people living in the area are transient. Where I live in Huntington (downtown area) there are a lot of young, professional families, and people in the same life stage as I am-- it's nice to get to know your neighbors and not have to worry about them moving in 2-4 years.

Their downtown is lacking (unless you're an alcoholic ). There just aren't a lot of retail or dining options. Huntington's downtown, on the other hand, has a lot more shopping and dining and a better downtown "feel". Thanks to WVU, there are a lot of lectures, sporting events, etc. to attend in Morgantown, but Huntington has its fair share of cultural events to attend as well, not all of which are university related.

I enjoyed my time that I was there, but I have come to realize there is more to this state than just Morgantown.

Growing up in Morgantown, I fell prey to the mentality that Morgantown is the end all be all and that the rest of the state is nothing. Unfortunately, a lot of residents (my family included) think this and it is quite sad. I was guilty of this until I lived in another part of the state. In my opinion, it is this type of mentality that has held this state back. People are too stubborn to see beyond their own city limits. WV is a wonderful place to live, with each city/area having a nice variety of offerings for its citizens. I want the ENTIRE state to grow and prosper!

True, Morgantown is growing, but so are other areas of the state, including Huntington. Huntington has had a lot of problems in the past, but they are trying to reverse this and bring new life back to the area through citizen movements. I, for one, am excited to be a part of this. Create Huntington

My personal preference is Huntington, but only because I feel it is a better fit for me and my young family. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions-- just don't try to force them on each other, especially when the other person doesn't want to listen to or accept them!

So, for the sake of my sanity (and every one else reading this ), let's just drop this back and forth nonsense!!

[CTMountaineer]

Originally Posted by creemarie

I have been reading this "pissing match" and am finding it a bit irritating. CTM: you obviously love Morgantown, and Bailey, you obviously love Huntington and that's fine. There is no point in this constant back and forth, because neither one of you is going to change the other person's mind. This forum is for information and opinions, but I think it's getting a bit out of hand!

Here's my 2 cents. I was born and raised in Morgantown, graduated from WVU, and a lot of my family still lives in Morgantown. However, I have lived in Huntington for the past four years, and these are my personal observations.

Morgantown is fine, but there are A LOT of college students. That makes it difficult to have a sense of community when so many people living in the area are transient. Where I live in Huntington (downtown area) there are a lot of young, professional families, and people in the same life stage as I am-- it's nice to get to know your neighbors and not have to worry about them moving in 2-4 years.

Their downtown is lacking (unless you're an alcoholic ). There just aren't a lot of retail or dining options. Huntington's downtown, on the other hand, has a lot more shopping and dining and a better downtown "feel". Thanks to WVU, there are a lot of lectures, sporting events, etc. to attend in Morgantown, but Huntington has its fair share of cultural events to attend as well, not all of which are university related.

I enjoyed my time that I was there, but I have come to realize there is more to this state than just Morgantown.

Growing up in Morgantown, I fell prey to the mentality that Morgantown is the end all be all and that the rest of the state is nothing. Unfortunately, a lot of residents (my family included) think this and it is quite sad. I was guilty of this until I lived in another part of the state. In my opinion, it is this type of mentality that has held this state back. People are too stubborn to see beyond their own city limits. WV is a wonderful place to live, with each city/area having a nice variety of offerings for its citizens. I want the ENTIRE state to grow and prosper!

True, Morgantown is growing, but so are other areas of the state, including Huntington. Huntington has had a lot of problems in the past, but they are trying to reverse this and bring new life back to the area through citizen movements. I, for one, am excited to be a part of this. Create Huntington

My personal preference is Huntington, but only because I feel it is a better fit for me and my young family. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions-- just don't try to force them on each other, especially when the other person doesn't want to listen to or accept them!

So, for the sake of my sanity (and every one else reading this ), let's just drop this back and forth nonsense!!

Now, wait just a minute there young lady. You make a post like that and tell everyone else to shut up? Come on now.

Sounds to me that, as a townie, you are among the Morgantown natives who resent The University's rapid growth, yearn for the old static days, are somewhat threatened by the rapid development and so forth. I can understand that. Changing the status quo is often not a comfortable thing to accept, but few could argue that the incredible growth Morgantown is experiencing has left locals anything but more prosperous.

Also, remember that I am familiar with both cities. I am a Marshall alumnus. If you can truly find more places to eat in downtown Huntington than in Morgantown you must have found some places there of which I am not aware. Morgantown has two five star quality restaurants in the downtown area now. Maybe Huntington has had one move in during the past 10 months since I was last there but I am definitely not aware of it. I will give Huntington the edge in terms of more McDonalds and Burger Kings, and true enough they don't serve alcohol in those places, but it is hard to find a really good place to eat in Huntington Bob Pruett's Steakhouse excepted (tongue in cheek). Besides, a lot of people aren't drunks but like a drink with their meal. To each his/her own.

I am happy for you that you like your new life in Huntington. I definitely never said there aren't very nice people there. And, like you said, it is less of a University city than Morgantown. If that appeals to you, so be it. I hope you are successful in your efforts to help Huntington grow and prosper, it sure needs it. I am not aware of the many examples of growth taking place there, but it could have all happened within the last 10 months. All I have been hearing is about the population declines, Marshall's declining student population, and frantic efforts to reverse the trend. I get all the usual Marshall Alumni publications and so forth, so I don't think I'm missing much on that front. I'm glad to hear that I have been missing other things though.

I'm curious as to what part of "downtown" Huntington is the part where you live? Speaking for myself, I can't think of many areas there I would choose to hang my hat. The area has unfortunately become known as Detriot South due to drug related violence and so forth, so it is hard for me to imagine it as a great place in which to raise children. Just a couple years ago they were stacking bodies in back yards like chordwood, so the atmosphere must have changed radically in that time period.

The big problem in Huntington is a matter of mindset, not a matter of potential. Huntington has almost as much potential as any other place, though it is a bit handicapped by lack of access to a major metropolitan area. They don't maximize that potential because they have an entitlement mentality. When you are always looking for others (especially the State) to do something for you, you will never accomplish great things on your own. In addition, when you spread yourself so thin that your resources can't support anything adequately, overall quality is bound to decline and you find yourself in a downward spiral. You then start asking questions like...

Why are faculty members so unhappy when they make more money than most people (forgetting that you are competing with 3,000+ institutions to keep good ones and when funding for new programs comes from the existing general budget)?

We reduced tuition for everyone and gave the children and grandchildren of all alumni anywhere in-state tuition (thereby reducing per student income), why isn't there enough money to pay the bills?

We went on the hook for long term rental leases for new dormatories, so why isn't this universally greeted with enthusiasm (when their interior construction is inferior and lends itself to fire hazzard)?

We commited to a long term lease for a new rented Recreation Center, and raised every students fees to cover the rental costs... why isn't this resulting in more enrollment (when most of our students are commuters)?

Huntington, Marshall in particular, has bought into the concept of "if you build it (or rent it), they will come". That just doesn't work. You have to build it when they are already there and the demand is evident. You also need to spend more time raising funds from alumni and internal sources than you do trying to weasel more funds from the Nation's poorest state.

They essentially use WVU as a model for where they need to be, and measure everything in terms of that model. When WVU builds something that Marshall does not have, every light remaining in Huntington goes on. They have to replicate it, even is quality is not an issue. In the process, quality declines because they are not a demand driven organization. They are an organization driven by forces outside of their control. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the kind of institution that is Marshall. Their only real problem is internally generated by some kind of irrational inferiority complex. They do NOT have to be like WVU to be just fine. They would be just fine being Marshall. For some reason, someone somewhere has convinced them otherwise, and there is no reasoning about it.

Not everyone wants to go to a large national university like WVU. People are different, and they want different things. Some prefer small colleges like West Liberty. Others prefer a more regional institution that has many of the advantages of both the larger and the smaller institutions. That is Marshall's niche. When they persist in trying to move against the forces of nature, what they are doing is helping Ohio U. or Morehead State grow, not themselves. The numbers bear that out. Somehow, for people like Bailey, it is traitorous to say the truth. We have to buy into the fallacy hook, line, and sinker.