Morgantown now #4 largest in state.... (Huntington: living, vs., to move)

[CTMountaineer]

Originally Posted by WVUPharm2007

Yay...a non pissing match post!

I heard the name of a restaurant, but I've since forgotten it. I have no idea other than that...perhaps David Kennedy can call some of his construction friends and find out for us.

Apparently development in Suncrest is going well in spite of the slowdown in the economy. Here is the latest...

Sonic, Hooters may hit town: Developer in talks with both companies

[creemarie]

Originally Posted by CTMountaineer

Now, wait just a minute there young lady. You make a post like that and tell everyone else to shut up? Come on now.

Sounds to me that, as a townie, you are among the Morgantown natives who resent The University's rapid growth, yearn for the old static days, are somewhat threatened by the rapid development and so forth. I can understand that. Changing the status quo is often not a comfortable thing to accept, but few could argue that the incredible growth Morgantown is experiencing has left locals anything but more prosperous.

Also, remember that I am familiar with both cities. I am a Marshall alumnus. If you can truly find more places to eat in downtown Huntington than in Morgantown you must have found some places there of which I am not aware. Morgantown has two five star quality restaurants in the downtown area now. Maybe Huntington has had one move in during the past 10 months since I was last there but I am definitely not aware of it. I will give Huntington the edge in terms of more McDonalds and Burger Kings, and true enough they don't serve alcohol in those places, but it is hard to find a really good place to eat in Huntington Bob Pruett's Steakhouse excepted (tongue in cheek). Besides, a lot of people aren't drunks but like a drink with their meal. To each his/her own.

I am happy for you that you like your new life in Huntington. I definitely never said there aren't very nice people there. And, like you said, it is less of a University city than Morgantown. If that appeals to you, so be it. I hope you are successful in your efforts to help Huntington grow and prosper, it sure needs it. I am not aware of the many examples of growth taking place there, but it could have all happened within the last 10 months. All I have been hearing is about the population declines, Marshall's declining student population, and frantic efforts to reverse the trend. I get all the usual Marshall Alumni publications and so forth, so I don't think I'm missing much on that front. I'm glad to hear that I have been missing other things though.

I'm curious as to what part of "downtown" Huntington is the part where you live? Speaking for myself, I can't think of many areas there I would choose to hang my hat. The area has unfortunately become known as Detriot South due to drug related violence and so forth, so it is hard for me to imagine it as a great place in which to raise children. Just a couple years ago they were stacking bodies in back yards like chordwood, so the atmosphere must have changed radically in that time period.

The big problem in Huntington is a matter of mindset, not a matter of potential. Huntington has almost as much potential as any other place, though it is a bit handicapped by lack of access to a major metropolitan area. They don't maximize that potential because they have an entitlement mentality. When you are always looking for others (especially the State) to do something for you, you will never accomplish great things on your own. In addition, when you spread yourself so thin that your resources can't support anything adequately, overall quality is bound to decline and you find yourself in a downward spiral. You then start asking questions like...

Why are faculty members so unhappy when they make more money than most people (forgetting that you are competing with 3,000+ institutions to keep good ones and when funding for new programs comes from the existing general budget)?

We reduced tuition for everyone and gave the children and grandchildren of all alumni anywhere in-state tuition (thereby reducing per student income), why isn't there enough money to pay the bills?

We went on the hook for long term rental leases for new dormatories, so why isn't this universally greeted with enthusiasm (when their interior construction is inferior and lends itself to fire hazzard)?

We commited to a long term lease for a new rented Recreation Center, and raised every students fees to cover the rental costs... why isn't this resulting in more enrollment (when most of our students are commuters)?

Huntington, Marshall in particular, has bought into the concept of "if you build it (or rent it), they will come". That just doesn't work. You have to build it when they are already there and the demand is evident. You also need to spend more time raising funds from alumni and internal sources than you do trying to weasel more funds from the Nation's poorest state.

They essentially use WVU as a model for where they need to be, and measure everything in terms of that model. When WVU builds something that Marshall does not have, every light remaining in Huntington goes on. They have to replicate it, even is quality is not an issue. In the process, quality declines because they are not a demand driven organization. They are an organization driven by forces outside of their control. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the kind of institution that is Marshall. Their only real problem is internally generated by some kind of irrational inferiority complex. They do NOT have to be like WVU to be just fine. They would be just fine being Marshall. For some reason, someone somewhere has convinced them otherwise, and there is no reasoning about it.

Not everyone wants to go to a large national university like WVU. People are different, and they want different things. Some prefer small colleges like West Liberty. Others prefer a more regional institution that has many of the advantages of both the larger and the smaller institutions. That is Marshall's niche. When they persist in trying to move against the forces of nature, what they are doing is helping Ohio U. or Morehead State grow, not themselves. The numbers bear that out. Somehow, for people like Bailey, it is traitorous to say the truth. We have to buy into the fallacy hook, line, and sinker.

First of all, I did NOT tell anyone to "shut up" and I do not appreciate your disrespectful tone.

Second, this will be my final post on the issue. If you have any more questions or comments directed to me, please feel free to send me a private message. I do not think most readers appreciate this type of banter.

I do not resent WVU's growth. As I said in my previous post, I want to see the ENTIRE state prosper-- universities included. I do resent it when others choose not to see the successes that occur in other parts of the state and downplay these suceesses just because they don't like that particular city's university athletic program (which seems to be you). From your posts, you seem to have a lot of annimosity towards Marshall/Huntington, for whatever the reason. There are other forums (sports forums, in particular), that are more appropriate for this type of discussion. By the way, when did you graduate from Marshall? You can't claim to be familiar with the happenings in Huntington when you don't currently live here, just as I do not claim to be overly-informed with all that is going on in Morgantown presently (although, I just visited my family in October.)

As for restaurants, here are the ones in DOWNTOWN Huntington (3rd, 4th & 5th Avenues, mostly) that I frequent:
Rocco's Little Italy Rocco's Little Italy
21 @ the Frederick 21 at The Frederick Huntington WV Fine Dining Downtown Restaurant
Java Joint MySpace.com - Java Joint - 34 - Male - HUNTINGTON, West Virginia - www.myspace.com/thejavajoint
Jewel City Seafood Jewel City Seafood
Raw Times Smoothie Bar MySpace.com - RAW TIMES - 100 - Female - HUNTINGTON, West Virginia - www.myspace.com/rawtimes
Max & Erma's Max & Erma's Restaurants :::::::: A BETTER PLACE TO EAT.
Frankie D's Italian Chop House Frankie D's Italian Chophouse Huntington WV at Pullman Square
Benny's Cheesesteak Benny's Cheesesteaks!
5 Guys Burgers & Fries Five Guys Burgers and Fries
Hibachi Japanese Steakhouse
Taste of Asia
Bobby Pruett's Steakhouse Coach Bobby Pruett's Steakhouse
Chili Willi's Chili Willi's | Tex-Mex Temple of Spicy Cuisine
Savannah's Savannah's Restaurant
Jimmy John's Jimmy John's Gourmet Sandwiches
Pita Pit The Pita Pit - Fresh Thinking, Healthy Eating
Nawab Indian Cuisine Nawab Indian Cuisine
Woody's Surfside Cafe :: Woody's Surfside Cafe"
(and there are more, non-fast food places that I could list, but I will stop here)

My "alcoholic" reference in my previous post was to the number of bars/clubs in Morgantown, not to restaurants serving alcohol-- no need to read between the lines.

Also, if you could name those two 5-star restaurants in Morgantown, I would appreciate that. I could not find any reference to them on google.

I live in the Southside area of Huntington, 1 block from Ritter Park. I must say, it is a fantastic place to raise children. I feel very safe here. I have no clue what you are talking about when you say "they were stacking bodies in back yards like chordwood." I will not deny that Huntington has a crime and drug problem, but so does Morgantown, Charleston, Wheeling, Parkersburg, Beckley, Bluefield, etc, etc, etc. Crime and drugs are everywhere, there is no escaping that. And don't deny that Morgantown has a drug/crime problem, because they do-- I've read the stories online about the recent drug busts and shootings downtown.

I'm not even going to get into the MU vs. WVU stuff you posted. It's really not worth my time and energy. And besides, others have already addressed a lot of these issues.

I will agree with you that there is a negative mindset in Huntington, but this is something that the city is working on changing. Forgive me for defending where I live and a city that I'm passionate about. I have only the highest hopes and aspirations for this city and get very frustrated when people want to knock it down and belittle it just because it is not where they choose to live. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you live in Connecticut, don't you? You don't see me bashing your hometown? I'd appreciate it if you would do the same.

[GottaHerdOn]

Agreed!!! but CreeMarie how dare you forget Happy Dragon on 4th Ave. I didn't even like Chinese food until I started going there. It's amazing

[vec101]

I haven' read all the posts and have just skimmed a few, so I really don't know what this is all about but...
Reminds me of 'Eers vs Herd football fans feud.

[WVUPharm2007]

Originally Posted by vec101

Reminds me of 'Eers vs Herd football fans feud.

...yup. I find it entertaining. I don't have the stamina to argue on like these two (or three...or four...or whatever)

[Future Trooper]

wow Morgantown is the 4th largest city in WV. i live in a town of 36,000 and it doesnt even make the top 15. and this is indiana i am talking about.

[CTMountaineer]

Originally Posted by creemarie

First of all, I did NOT tell anyone to "shut up" and I do not appreciate your disrespectful tone.

Second, this will be my final post on the issue. If you have any more questions or comments directed to me, please feel free to send me a private message. I do not think most readers appreciate this type of banter.

I do not resent WVU's growth. As I said in my previous post, I want to see the ENTIRE state prosper-- universities included. I do resent it when others choose not to see the successes that occur in other parts of the state and downplay these suceesses just because they don't like that particular city's university athletic program (which seems to be you). From your posts, you seem to have a lot of annimosity towards Marshall/Huntington, for whatever the reason. There are other forums (sports forums, in particular), that are more appropriate for this type of discussion. By the way, when did you graduate from Marshall? You can't claim to be familiar with the happenings in Huntington when you don't currently live here, just as I do not claim to be overly-informed with all that is going on in Morgantown presently (although, I just visited my family in October.)

As for restaurants, here are the ones in DOWNTOWN Huntington (3rd, 4th & 5th Avenues, mostly) that I frequent:
Rocco's Little Italy Rocco's Little Italy
21 @ the Frederick 21 at The Frederick Huntington WV Fine Dining Downtown Restaurant
Java Joint MySpace.com - Java Joint - 34 - Male - HUNTINGTON, West Virginia - www.myspace.com/thejavajoint
Jewel City Seafood Jewel City Seafood
Raw Times Smoothie Bar MySpace.com - RAW TIMES - 100 - Female - HUNTINGTON, West Virginia - www.myspace.com/rawtimes
Max & Erma's Max & Erma's Restaurants :::::::: A BETTER PLACE TO EAT.
Frankie D's Italian Chop House Frankie D's Italian Chophouse Huntington WV at Pullman Square
Benny's Cheesesteak Benny's Cheesesteaks!
5 Guys Burgers & Fries Five Guys Burgers and Fries
Hibachi Japanese Steakhouse
Taste of Asia
Bobby Pruett's Steakhouse Coach Bobby Pruett's Steakhouse
Chili Willi's Chili Willi's | Tex-Mex Temple of Spicy Cuisine
Savannah's Savannah's Restaurant
Jimmy John's Jimmy John's Gourmet Sandwiches
Pita Pit The Pita Pit - Fresh Thinking, Healthy Eating
Nawab Indian Cuisine Nawab Indian Cuisine
Woody's Surfside Cafe :: Woody's Surfside Cafe"
(and there are more, non-fast food places that I could list, but I will stop here)

My "alcoholic" reference in my previous post was to the number of bars/clubs in Morgantown, not to restaurants serving alcohol-- no need to read between the lines.

Also, if you could name those two 5-star restaurants in Morgantown, I would appreciate that. I could not find any reference to them on google.

I live in the Southside area of Huntington, 1 block from Ritter Park. I must say, it is a fantastic place to raise children. I feel very safe here. I have no clue what you are talking about when you say "they were stacking bodies in back yards like chordwood." I will not deny that Huntington has a crime and drug problem, but so does Morgantown, Charleston, Wheeling, Parkersburg, Beckley, Bluefield, etc, etc, etc. Crime and drugs are everywhere, there is no escaping that. And don't deny that Morgantown has a drug/crime problem, because they do-- I've read the stories online about the recent drug busts and shootings downtown.

I'm not even going to get into the MU vs. WVU stuff you posted. It's really not worth my time and energy. And besides, others have already addressed a lot of these issues.

I will agree with you that there is a negative mindset in Huntington, but this is something that the city is working on changing. Forgive me for defending where I live and a city that I'm passionate about. I have only the highest hopes and aspirations for this city and get very frustrated when people want to knock it down and belittle it just because it is not where they choose to live. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you live in Connecticut, don't you? You don't see me bashing your hometown? I'd appreciate it if you would do the same.

Read your previous post. My wording might have been a bit strong, and for that I apologize, but it sure sounds like "shut up" to me, even if those aren't the exact words used.

Ritter Park is a nice area, but I'm not sure it qualifies as what would typically be considered "Downtown" Huntington. I suppose it depends on your definition. It's true that every city has its drug problems. They just seem to have taken an unusually violent turn in Huntington. I believe most of the perpetrators are not from that city (they seem to be from Detriot), but they are present there none-the-less. The quadrupple homicide to which I referred took place on Charleston Ave. in Huntington in 2005. There have been others as well. Here is the Huntington Police Department's very own description of the situation in that city:

City of Huntington, West Virginia


I live in both Morgantown and Connecticut ( I have homes in both places). I admit to not being in Huntington during the past year. And, my degree from Marshall was awarded in 1992. I am a retired Government employee having worked for many years for both West Virginia and another state. I still have friends in Huntington, as Silk and HerdGirl will attest.

And, you are misreading my posts. Like Bailey, you assume because I don't like the direction Marshall has taken I don't like the school. That is not the case. I don't like what they are doing with the school, and that is an entirely different matter. I can be a Marshall alumnus and believe they are making mistakes there. That is not being disloyal to Marshall, in fact, I consider it my duty to speak up if I believe they are making mistakes. To do otherwise would be disloyal. In my opinion, they have been sold a bill of goods by disingenuous administrators who have their own agendas. It's easy to see how that could happen since the city of Huntington is desparate for anything that might get it moving in the right direction again, and most wouldn't recognize how attempting to do that by forcing a situation at Marshall would actually be hurting long term success there.

My original post on this matter stated that I felt Morgantown was the best city and has the greatest growth rate in the State. One is my opinion, the other is provable fact. It also said, without naming anyone else, that WVU is the State's only MAJOR institution, and that is a primary driving force for the growth. I think that is self evident, and it certainly was not intended as a knock on any other school. Bailey jumped in with a defensive attitude about Marshall, which I would have preferred to not deal with.

You are correct that the issue of Marshall has been dealt with ad nausium, mostly because people there demand that every one else "recognize" that they are on a par with WVU. I will not say that they are worse, or better than WVU, as I stated previously. They are, however, different than WVU. That is obvious, and is no reason for Marshall pundits to get defensive. The differences are obvious and evident.

West Virginia is nearly 3 times as large as Marshall. It has several times the number of graduate and especially doctoral programs. It also has several times the professional programs, and those that it does have in common with Marshall are more comprehensive in nature (examples - especially in the Medical Schools where Marshall specializes in rural physicians and back doctors and WVU has numerous specialties). WVU has at least 10 times the research activity as Marshall, and it continues to grow at exponential rates. One school is primarily commuter oriented while the other is primarily residential in nature. There is a stark contrast between the two institutions. It is ludicrous to assert that they are equivalent institutions. I am amazed that some Marshall folks insist on making that claim. They are almost as different as night and day.

As you know, there are literally dozens of restaurants in and around Morgantown. Not all are good ones, but there are several good ones and at least 3 excellent ones. What is a "5 Star" Restaurant depends on the rater. I live (part of the time) in the New York City area and have dined in some of that city's finest establishments. The State of West Virginia is quite laid back compared with NYC. Formality is not the rule. However, I consider the Cafe Bacchus and Oliverio's at the Wharf to be on a par quality wise with any restaurant in New York or any place else. Google agrees with me as both carry a "5 Star" rating on their site. Coming in close behind is Sargasso on Don Knotts Blvd. There are also Japanese, Greek, Arab, Chinese, Mexican (besides Taco Bell), Indian, and American restaurants to suit any taste. There are also the usual chain restaurants found in most cities as well as some that are not, like Boston Beanery's two locations.

Bailey is correct that there have been some business closings to go along with the new openings. What he didn't point out is if people chose the new business over the old one, there must be a reason for that. If the old one were superior, the new ones wouldn't have thrived and the old one would still be open. That's what supply and demand will resolve. Market forces determine that the best will prevail. I believe the Mountain Coop is still in business, but the food markets are getting some pretty good organic food in these days in significant quantities and selections, so it is safe to assume they face some stiff competition. And, the new Kroger in Suncrest is probably the nicest supermarket I have ever seen, so that alone would be significant competition.

The thing is, this particular site is supposed to be about Morgantown. It is not about the rest of West Virginia. My initial post didn't even mention Huntington. Bailey brought up Huntington, as well as all the Marshall crap. I hardly think he would do that if he didn't expect some kind of response. People can read these threads and post or not as they choose. Nobody is making you, or anyone else do so. The fact that you chose to respond indicates that you at least had some level of interest. But, don't blame me for dragging Huntington onto Morgantown's board. I can tell you with certainty that I am 100% sold on Morgantown and its future even though I am not originally from there, and even though I have spent a lot of time in other cities across the State of West Virginia and America. Apparently, there are a lot of people who agree with me, or it wouldn't be growing so quickly.

I am more than willing to join you in getting this discussion back where it belongs... on the City of Morgantown.

People have literally thousands of places they can choose to live. The fact that so many new people are choosing Morgantown must mean it is a pretty good place to live. I'm sure Huntington is a nice place to live too, as are many places within the State, and like you, I hope they all prosper and grow.

[CTMountaineer]

Originally Posted by gdude

wow Morgantown is the 4th largest city in WV. i live in a town of 36,000 and it doesnt even make the top 15. and this is indiana i am talking about.

That's because there are no large, or even medium sized towns in the State. The whole State is a collection of small towns. The topic of this thread is really just pointing out that one small town is growing faster than the other small towns. There are a hundred towns with nothing but bedrooms and convenience stores in them across the country that are much larger than any town in West Virginia. You could put any town in West Virginia, and probably most in Indiana, in a two block area of New York City population wise.

[tbailey1138]

Originally Posted by CTMountaineer

The thing is, this particular site is supposed to be about Morgantown. It is not about the rest of West Virginia. My initial post didn't even mention Huntington.

This forum is the West Virginia Forum. It has no portion dedicated to a single WV city. This THREAD was about Morgantown becoming the 4th largest city in the state. You gave an opinion that it would pass numbers 1, 2 and 3 which are Charleston, Huntington and Parkersburg. So you indirectly brought those 3 into this. I spoke up about Huntington because it's where I live and you brought up some pretty far fetched opinions and some flat out untruths. There are still lots of inaccuracies and misrepresentations in your last few posts about the city, but as I stated before, I'm done with the back and forth. I only posted this just to clarify why I responded in the first place and to state that this is in fact the WV forum and thus is about the rest of West Virginia.

[CTMountaineer]

Originally Posted by tbailey1138

This forum is the West Virginia Forum. It has no portion dedicated to a single WV city. This THREAD was about Morgantown becoming the 4th largest city in the state. You gave an opinion that it would pass numbers 1, 2 and 3 which are Charleston, Huntington and Parkersburg. So you indirectly brought those 3 into this. I spoke up about Huntington because it's where I live and you brought up some pretty far fetched opinions and some flat out untruths. There are still lots of inaccuracies and misrepresentations in your last few posts about the city, but as I stated before, I'm done with the back and forth. I only posted this just to clarify why I responded in the first place and to state that this is in fact the WV forum and thus is about the rest of West Virginia.

I am reading this from a page about Morgantown, and the topics posted are under a heading "posts about Morgantown". That sounds pretty city specific to me. Okay, I have gone around the site some more and found that you can access this thread either way, from the Morgantown page or from a West Virginia forum, so we are both correct.

Apparently your perception of what is fact differs from my own. I suppose there is nothing that can be done about that. Regardless, I think in time Morgantown will surpass all other towns in West Virginia in size for several reasons, and current trends certainly point in that direction. Nothing you have posted indicates anything different than that. Even Martinsburg (where my daughter's family lives) is not growing as quickly. Eventually they will improve the infrastructure in Morgantown, and growth will happen at an even faster rate.

Don't assume because things have slowed somewhat with the current economy that it won't resume when it improves. Amazingly, it has not stopped in spite of it. Slowed... yes, but not stopped. Next time you go home drive around the areas that are not even incorporated near Morgantown. Go out West Run and Van Voorhis and look at the massive construction projects underway. The growth in Granville is another matter, but that in the unincorporated areas will likely at some point be brought into the city. That alone will add several thousand to the population.

One thing that I find surprising in Morgantown is the development and use of the mass transit system there. It is comprehensive, thorough, and efficient. It is also well used. As a senior citizen I can go any place in town for 50 cents of less. Most small towns have service every hour or so, but in Morgantown the norm is 20 minutes. Having the daily bus shuttle to and from Pittsburgh and all cities in between as well as bus runs through all of Northcentral WV is also a big plus. As you know, parking is a big issue in The University City. Having readily available public transit is a big help.