If this happens, I'll be sending post cards from California (War: apartment complex, insurance)

[vec101]

[Hinton Bound]

Originally Posted by GottaHerdOn

Well I understand there are issues with religious institutions saying marriage is between a man and a woman. Which I don't personally care about. Because both me and Jake are atheist/agnostics, despite being raised in Catholic and Baptist households. But I have many gay and lesbian friends that are Christian, Jewish, and Hindu that still respect their religious guidelines... aside from that one..ha ha

Personally, I don't think that is a good idea to single out a child because his or her parents. I just don't see the need. I think as parents we should teach our children to embrace differences and understand we are all not the same and should respect other peoples lives.

With that said... I don't want a religious marriage. I want a state marriage. I want it called marriage because separate but equal is b/s. My parents were married at the courthouse basically back in 1978. They didn't have a church wedding because that was just not something they wanted. Then nine years later I came along... ha ha Which is pretty much how me and Jake want to go about things. We don't want a wedding in a church or something. We just want the title, the legal benefits, and perhaps a small reception with family and friends once we get back to WV, (we're planning on getting married in San Diego, CA)

The only way around this issue is to do away with marriage recognition within the government and to keep marriage a religious act (like christening or a baptism and create a whole new term for both heterosexual and homosexual couples to recognize the relationship. Or to allow any two loving people the same right to enter into marriage as everyone else. Those are really the only two options that are fair to the gay/lesbian community.

Look at it from my perspective. Hypothetically, gay marriages are legal and heterosexual marriages are banned for whatever hypothetical situation. But you are given the option in 3 states to be married to the person you love, and in about 7-8 others you can have a civil union. Wouldn't you have lots of questions? Like why is my love not treated the same as others? Why am I being treated like a 2nd class citizen? any many others...

Couple of gems in here:

1) Atheist- now I have some company when I demand to work on Christmas! Don't tell anyone, but I don't beleive in Santa or the tooth Fairy either.

2) Do away with "government" in marriage. Yep, shouldn't be there at all. Shouldn't be alot of places that it is...

Love is love. You don't need anyone, or any entity to acknowledge it to make it "real".

~Mark

[Hinton Bound]

I don't believe "E" comes before "I" in "believe" either...

[GottaHerdOn]

Sometimes I'm half asleep when I type on here or doing 15 other things or have 15 other things on my mind. Its lucky my posts are understandable...ha ha

[harborlady]

Mr Dys you don't seem to realize that many of us have left a church because hatred is being preached in the name of Jesus. What could be more blasphemous? If you have empty pews, and even a thinning clergy, it might be time for self examination. My god and I do just fine without your vote, TYVM.

Legal standpoint- Our constitution is clear about equality and separation of church and state. I support & will defend our constitution, even from confused americans like yourself.

Religious standpoint- My god doesn't need to be propped up by the endorsement of any government, or even validated by another soul on the planet. My god exists above all these mortal arguments. The harder you argue the point, the weaker your faith that GOD knows what GOD is doing. Your own hubris keeps you from gods grace, not the rest of the world.

GHO- You already know how I feel about this subject from another thread. I agree with vec that sometimes you do get defensive. I understand that life can get annoying having to deal with the outside world dumping it's nonsense on you. I've had nonsense dumped on me too- it's all made up of the same mind game. Learn that early, you'll have less to regret in life.

Most of us, self included, are clueless about what it means to be gay. How can gays be mad about what hetero's don't know? Turn this around, if your agnostic self can't understand my god, would it be rational for me to be mad at you about it? 'Forgive them, father, they know not what they do' doesn't have the same meaning in your agnostic/atheist frame of reference. The bible is available to anyone, but knowing anything real about gays isn't.

I've met them, hung out with them, worked with them, but I don't know much other than they're ordinary people, really. How would anyone else know that if they're hiding their identity? It's as if it only feeds the worst mythology out there. That happens so much in america. I wonder how many of those wednesday church goers vec mentioned were gay?

You don't need my blessing or best wishes, but I'll offer them just the same.

Leave for california over politics? I'd hope you two would make a decision based on what's really best for you both and less on what others opinions are about. OK OK, you can go and I won't whine, but only if you keep WV blog on your regular rounds. <---- not to be mistaken for an endorsement of palin

[GottaHerdOn]

HA HA HA... yeah I admit I'm the defensive one, Jake is the calm level headed one. Blame my mother..ha ha But I think a lot of wanting to move has to do with not dealing with the legalities of our relationship not being recognized. We will not be leaving until we both wrap up our under grads here at Marshall, we are both currently seniors but I had to go and add Geography as a second major this year so I may be a little behind, and we’re planning on going to the same school for our graduate and doctorate degrees.

-But the legal reasons of not having to go to a lawyer and have papers drawn up and having them carried in the car and on our persons at all time just incase we are in an accident or something happens saying that the other is allowed to visit the hospital and make medical decisions.

-Children, being legally married makes it so much easier to adopt or do in vitro fertilization.

-When we get old I'd like for him to be able to collect my social security benefits that I've paid into, upon my death.

-I'd like to be able to use his health insurance (or vice versa) instead both of us having to carry our own policies.

-I'd like for him to inherit my estate without paying estate taxes if I die first. Straight married couples automatically inherit their spouses estate upon death.

-I'd also like to know that if he gets sick I can take some time off of work to care for him. Companies and corporations are legally bound to let gay or lesbian workers take time off to care for their spouses.

-living together in nursing homes, home protection, and pensions are other things I'm concerned about

Likewise I do accept anyone’s religious views, I just don’t want something I do not follow telling my state and country how to go about governing me. Which is the way things have been in the United States for a long time. Do you really think I could leave the WV forum?!!?!?! Hell No.. You guys keep my mind sharp

[genesee]

Amen to that..oops..or not!

[GottaHerdOn]

amen to what?

[genesee]

Keeping your mind sharp?

[Sharedspirit]

Originally Posted by Call me Tres

GHO, you might want to wait on buying that ticket to CA. Prop 8 is getting a lot of support all of a sudden.

I wish that someone could walk me through the steps to explain how me marrying my girlfriend would devalue or lessen my neighbours' straight marriages. If you don't want to call it a marriage, fine. Let me have some sort of state/federal recognition of our relationship so that I can protect my gf in case I die far too soon.

What is Prop 8? Sorry for my ignorance.

I totally agree with what you are saying. Wasn't there a fairly recent (last few years) case where a woman died and her partner was denied the right to their child?