Fed Economic Stimulus Package (2010, credit card, lawyer)

[Threerun]

Originally Posted by David Kennedy

Say goodbye to the United Auto Workers and those nice big pensions...the congress has just opened the door the the Auto companies to get their act together...Half (UAW) of the big albatross will be shaken loose in Recievership...the other (the eco-laws requiring inventions and technology that does not now exist) might come later as somesort of compromise...

A leaner and meaner auto industry will emerge...much like the Saturn scheme of GM...workable and with some quality...
Ford and Chrysler might merge...we will see soon...paperwork should be submited to the courts by Dec 30th to grandfather under old laws...

2009 Bankruptcy filing might not be workable with the Obama camp in place...

All this crafted months ago to take place...tacked on to the financial fiasco to grab a dollar if possible, and Congress didn't bite.

Obama's plan: Throw the money into public transit...prohibit freedom of movement...wait and see...it's a tightening...

Out of the three, Ford is in a better position to survive absent of a federal loan (*cough-cough* bailout, *cough-cough*)..

They are selling their stake in Mazda, they already have compact products that sell well overseas that could be modified for US consumers..

I wouldn't buy any stock in them, yet, but I'd say they are the ones to watch.

[harborlady]

LOL three... but shouldn't we buy stock when prices are low? It's a bargain! hahhahaaa

GM- Crying poor when you're leasing jets is hard for anyone to take. I don't see that it has a prayer even with a loan, but morph into something else with a takeover is in the wind. Cross fingies it all evens out in the end.

Never thought I'd live to see this day... 39 city rally, and boy are these folks HOT! (WV isn't on the list)
End the Federal Reserve Bank! National Rally for Sound Money, November 22nd

[GottaHerdOn]

Originally Posted by Threerun

Out of the three, Ford is in a better position to survive absent of a federal loan (*cough-cough* bailout, *cough-cough*)..

They are selling their stake in Mazda, they already have compact products that sell well overseas that could be modified for US consumers..

I wouldn't buy any stock in them, yet, but I'd say they are the ones to watch.

Well as I've watched my investments fumble, some up to 50% - Apple, TransOcean, and Abercrombie & Fitch. I'm now actually considering pulling out and buying Ford stock. I do think it is best poised for the best turn around and most likely will turn a profit again in the coming years. They currently have more money than both GM and Chrysler, and have actually been gaining market share this year. Plus the price of the stock is so cheap now that a person could actually make a comfortable profit in the long term I think. They've also been the only one of the big three to actually take steps to reduce their luxury expenses like selling off over 1/2 of their private jets, and they've came up with a comprehensive plan on how they would use that....... bailout money

[David Kennedy]

When Chrsyler borrowed from Uncle Sam in the Lee Iacocca days their stock went down to $3...and we were frozen out from buying..
I did get 1000 shares against my partners protests...just 4 years later is was breezing along at $70 after the loans were paid back...

That was an entirely different style congress then...I wouldn't take that chance now with any of the 'Big Three...(although Ford would be stronger than the others)

If I was holding their stock, I would sit tight and let the bankruptcy judge send me my check...

Did that once with a movie company and tripled my money in 3 years...the movie companies plan on bankruptcy as a way of life...keeps the producers money safe...

All is not as we perceive it GHO.

[vec101]

Article dated Nov. 10, 2008 By Robert Farago :

Lest we forget, Wagoner’s [GM CEO Rick Wagoner’s] compensation was INCREASED (a.k.a. “restored”) in April to $14.4m per year (and the rest). That’s more than all top ten of Toyota executives combined.

NYT Bemoans GM Retiree Health Care Cuts and Says Squat About CEO’s Millions | The Truth About Cars

Article dated April 25, 2008 by By Robert Farago:

Automotive News reports that Rick's TOTAL compensation for '07 was $14.4m, or $39,452.05 per day (including weekends). Meanwhile, Car Czar "Maximum" Bob Lutz gets a nice little "thank you" for winning TTAC's Bob Lutz Award: a base salary "boost" from $1.3m p.a. to $1.75m (so much for "I gave at the office"). MB's total compensation for '07: $6.9m. Newly promoted GM COO (from CFO) Fritz Henderson gets $1.8m; total pay package $7.6m. Friends of GM are free to defend this pay-out (supply - demand), but I find the fact that these guys are raking in MORE money as 32 GM factories are off-line, as GM struggles for its survival, appalling.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/gm-...s-144m-for-07/

Looks like the squabble about the pay of auto Ceo's (and others) has been going on for a while
AdelaideNow... Surging CEO pay sparks backlash

[harborlady]

GHO just remember investments are supposed to be just that-- investments. We've had a financial climate for decades where people were thinking wall street was vegas and it's hurt lots of people who didn't do homework. Don't invest more than you can afford to lose is standard disclosure from any reputable broker. Usually that's rushed past and people don't give it enough thought. Listening to 'experts' and taking their word for it is the equivalent of copying someone else's homework- you lose the education that way.

Buying Ford stock is very patriotic IMO but the power struggle from old to new has tripped them up from being poised to harvest profit from next wave cars during energy crunch. They meant to be hybrid competition but forces in the board room undermine the mission... read the shareholder reports & independent assessments before you commit yourself. Ford is in my portfolio as an acceptable risk, but I'm in it for the long haul and have other yields that can compensate.

I heard a suggestion thrown out there... upstart smaller companies like Tesla Tesla Motors that are vested in higher mileage vehicles could get a bargain on a detroit plant for mfg. GM recycled. Revitalize rust belt. I think the idea is excellent but hard to know all that would be in the way to make it happen. I'd love to invest in something like that... much more productive than patching up mistakes or bankrolling infighting. Protects job bases across the board without being too ham handed as well.

12 mo CD rates FDIC insured are 4% @ ING direct. It's the least risk for those concerned about losses.

[David Kennedy]

HB is right...the salvation of the auto industry is to go belly up and take the money...let profitable foreign companies take the vacant factories and make a profit...recycle these industries with workable models...

and the answer is not in the gasoline burning vehicles...its the cars of tomorrow...the best message we can send to the arabian blackmailing towel heads is this.."We don't need oil...they have held us hostage since 1975 and Jimmy Carter...

Say a prayer for Wv...the killing of the coal industry is on the way...If you say a prayer...at least the state will have that....a prayer.

[harborlady]

DK I do pray for WV & America that reasonable solutions can manifest to solve more at less of a price. The price being measured not just in gold or oil, but the human cost as well.

I'm hoping America can stand up with ingenuity and gumption once again without foreign investors. I'm rooting for a whole America working together respectfully. That can't happen when people are trying to gain unfair advantage at the expense of another or presuming anyone with a stake in the outcome doesn't get a vote.

Blame Carter, blame Reagan, blame bugs bunny... at this point it doesn't matter who authored or facilitated our oil dependence over the course of 100yrs resulting in vulnerability now. We ALL followed a policy that's outlived it's usefulness. It's high time we have one that functions now & into the future.

One thing I can say as a centrist listening to all sides of the story- every single one of you has valid points that need to be incorporated into the ideal solution. When you spend more energy criticizing an idea/ defending a poor one vs presenting another viable option you defeat yourselves in the process. See this as a negotiation. Whatever we wind up with as a solution for a nation won't be perfect, but it should be a compromise that allows each to have their place. Try not to forget that we're a gigantic American family even when we don't agree.

Hope everyone has a Happy Thanksgiving and for the sake of the cook & the table it's on, no food fights please!

[David Kennedy]

The 'Human Cost is never included into any government equation...the one exception being election time.

I remember the 80's here...miners pulling the machinery from the mines and cutting those million dollar machines into scrap...guarding the areas with high powered rifles...daring the coal operators to come and get them..

The burning of cars and homes was so regular that insurance companies declared "Red Zones and would not write insurance in certain counties and regions...The local people should have moved to other areas of the country but they are limited to certain skills and minds sets...they see the graveyards filled with their kin and stay placed...those graveyards are their ultimate destinations.

Our economy can be vibrant and healthy...goverment interference is not a positive step...government talks a good game but never delivers...has been that way for thousands of years...and the cost has always been the same...slavery or the destruction of the public masse.

Give thanks for Who we are and Where We are....God bless America.

[harborlady]

Originally Posted by David Kennedy

Say goodbye to the United Auto Workers and those nice big pensions...the congress has just opened the door the the Auto companies to get their act together...Half (UAW) of the big albatross will be shaken loose in Recievership...the other (the eco-laws requiring inventions and technology that does not now exist) might come later as somesort of compromise...

A leaner and meaner auto industry will emerge...much like the Saturn scheme of GM...workable and with some quality...
Ford and Chrysler might merge...we will see soon...paperwork should be submited to the courts by Dec 30th to grandfather under old laws...

2009 Bankruptcy filing might not be workable with the Obama camp in place...

All this crafted months ago to take place...tacked on to the financial fiasco to grab a dollar if possible, and Congress didn't bite.

Obama's plan: Throw the money into public transit...prohibit freedom of movement...wait and see...it's a tightening...

I know you're no fan of unions, but if you really wanted to know where alllllll that money goes in a multi billion $ industry I think the republican cooked books auditors selling stories are pretty well busted for bashing middle class workers so regularly.

GM CEO= 19.7 mill
Ford CEO= 22.7 million
chrysler= not tellin because they're LLC, but claiming $1 for the circus (+20 mill stock options?)
Honda/Toyota CEO= less than 1 million

These salaries are for one mgmt job and do not include a fully staffed board room or ancillary support staff.
# of cars a herd of administrators produce= 0.
What % of their salaries are represented in a sticker price?
What is that sticker price relative to union salaries buying those cars?

How many living wage jobs can one bloated CEO buy?
Executive PayWatch Database

Union workers make no decisions. They follow orders, get blamed for the outcome with frozen wages, diminished benefits and layoffs regardless of merit, then pay for bailouts themselves on forced OT because they're also taxed at higher rates. That's fair. Right?

Old world german boss of mine- small mom and pop shop mfg- let me know upon hiring who gets laid off in what order when the price of aluminum goes up & competitors get cut throat about it.
1. Administrative support (me & 4 others)
2. VP (his son)
3. plant supervisor
4. the least productive on shop floor
5. the next least productive on shop floor
6. the next least productive on shop floor

I learned a great deal from that old coot. More than his son by the time I moved on. Tough, fair, respectful.
"the money is in the production floor, not in the office"