NBC: "Morgantown an economic oasis" (Charleston, Parkersburg: crime rates, unemployed)

[triax10]

I have a question on census data and university/college students. You typically hear that college students are not counted in census data, and in particular in Morgantown, there is the discussion that with students, the city holds many more people. Why is it then that in the 2000 census, over 12,500 people in the census data for Morgantown are between 15 and 24, compared to 3,500 for Fairmont, 4,000 for Wheeling, 2,000 for Clarksburg, and 6,000 for Charleston. In other words, a full 47% of the Morgantown 2000 population is in that age bracket, compared to percentages of 6 to 13% for other similarly sized cities in the state. I cannot imagine all these people not being students-- it simply does not add up.

[Silkdashocker]

Originally Posted by triax10

I have a question on census data and university/college students. You typically hear that college students are not counted in census data, and in particular in Morgantown, there is the discussion that with students, the city holds many more people. Why is it then that in the 2000 census, over 12,500 people in the census data for Morgantown are between 15 and 24, compared to 3,500 for Fairmont, 4,000 for Wheeling, 2,000 for Clarksburg, and 6,000 for Charleston. In other words, a full 47% of the Morgantown 2000 population is in that age bracket, compared to percentages of 6 to 13% for other similarly sized cities in the state. I cannot imagine all these people not being students-- it simply does not add up.

That's a very good question that i'm sure there is an answer to. Here's my guess: I'm assuming that many of the graduate students and upperclass undergrads eventually take up residency in Morgantown and begin dwelling in Morgantown full time by the age of 20-21 years old. So the age bracket from 20-24 will likely have many more residents due to these people taking up citizenship in Morgantown, such as registering to vote, and having liscenses changed to Morgantown.

[vec101]

Originally Posted by triax10

I have a question on census data and university/college students. You typically hear that college students are not counted in census data, and in particular in Morgantown, there is the discussion that with students, the city holds many more people. Why is it then that in the 2000 census, over 12,500 people in the census data for Morgantown are between 15 and 24, compared to 3,500 for Fairmont, 4,000 for Wheeling, 2,000 for Clarksburg, and 6,000 for Charleston. In other words, a full 47% of the Morgantown 2000 population is in that age bracket, compared to percentages of 6 to 13% for other similarly sized cities in the state. I cannot imagine all these people not being students-- it simply does not add up.

Good point.
I wonder also how/if home ownership factors into that.
While a student, my son had a trailer then a condo in his name so he was a homeowner.

And..yes, after grad last Spring, since he owns the condo, he still lives in MoTown (works around the state so could live anywhere). If he did not own the condo, chances are he would have moved back to Chas.

[CTMountaineer]

There are also a lot of jobs in Morgantown that are tailored to the younger
set. Research jobs, service sector jobs, etc. Also Milan is a relatively
young company there, so it doesn't have the older workforce that you typically find in other industrial jobs elsewhere. Same for the Federal Prisons... they hire younger workers. In fact, you can't get a job with them if you are over 30 something. Most of the jobs in Morgantown require a college education, which also is age skewed to a younger group.

[CTMountaineer]

Originally Posted by tbailey1138

Good points Kennedy. Do you think those new campuses will continue to impact WVU as they continue to grow? And also, do you think the completion of the Mon-Fayette Expressway will bring more people to Morgantown or make it easier for people from Morgantown to spend their dollars in Pittsburgh?

CT, my point in the post wasn't "to try to make Morgantown something less than reality" but just rather to 1) Discuss an issue that someone else brought up and 2) Dig a little deeper into this topic and look at the updated data and where this success is coming from.



My concern wasn't that the enrollment drop would affect the university as much as it would businesses and property owners. 350 fewer people needing apartments, buying groceries, eating out etc. If it happens and then continues, as Kennedy alluded to, it would have a big impact on other sectors there.



Not to get into this with you again since we are discussing Morgantown, but since you brought it up, let's consider some things. As discussed with you before, those figures were before the current growth in Huntington with Pullman Square and the revitalization efforts downtown which has brought many new businesses. New figures should be out later this year or next so we'll have to look at them again when they are available. Let's also take at look at the areas, like you typically prefer to do. Again, these figures are for retail only.

Cabell Co. $1,246,185,000
Monongalia Co. $829,467,000

Huntington MSA $2,922,151,000
Morgantown MSA $1,005,778,000

So when looking at the areas, Cabell has 1 1/2 times more retail revenue and the Huntington MSA has nearly 3 times the retail revenue.

Back to the topic at hand though, how do you feel when you watch the interview with Mayor Justice and they speak of the growth being founded on government money? Especially after you claimed Morgantown gets little to no help from the state.

For one thing, you are counting figures for Ironton and Ashland (20 miles or so away) as though they were relevant for Huntington. I'm talking about the activities of the towns themselves and immediate environs... not some abstract MSA figures that for small towns like Huntington and Morgantown really are not that relevant. That's like saying retail in Fairmont (19 miles away) is somehow closely related to retail in Morgantown.

I will agree that it will be interesting to see the new figures for retail when they come out. Remember, Monongalia has made great advances in retailing in the past decade with Glen Mark and other retail developments. A lot of Cabell's retail is based close to the Putnam line, so they draw people who might normally go to Kanawha there and there is limited relationship to Huntington. If you're going to the Mall from Huntington, you need to pack a lunch. The new retail near Morgantown might well provide added draw from Waynesburg and Uniontown, thus the county ratings could be quite different. It will be interesting to see.

[CTMountaineer]

Originally Posted by David Kennedy

Did anyone see the 2 900 lb gorillias in the room?

Did anyone think that the brand new twin 1200 acre campuses of Penn State and CMU at Uniontown might have a slight effect on the enrollment of WVU?

A great percentage of WVU enrollment is Pennsi because of lower costs and now we are losing them because those Pennsi Degrees carry greater credibility.

And do you know...Uniontown is as far away to the north as Fairmont is to the south?

I agree that a CMU degree is semi Ive League and carries great credibility, especially in scientific areas, but I doubt a Penn State branch campus degree (often they have two year orientations for their programs) has as great a credibility. They do, however, provide competition. That is especially true for entering freshmen. Many might choose to go for 2 years to the PSU campus down the road then transfer to Morgantown for the bachelors.

I don't think most state supported schools are really that much in competition for the kinds of undergraduate students who go to CMU. UVa and Michigan are notable exceptions as is Cal Berkeley. The PSU campus will likely have a more direct effect, especially for the first two years.

That said, I have a hunch the effects will be temporary. West Virginia will intensify recruiting for out of state students, especially in the Northeast, and offset the difference. Reading the plans there is also a movement toward emphasizing graduate education at WVU as well as research for the future. Given the constraints of infrastructure, a more selective undergraduate group is anticipated. CMU nearby will actually be a benefit long term because of collaborative research efforts and the opportunity for shared faculty endeavors.

[tbailey1138]

Originally Posted by CTMountaineer

For one thing, you are counting figures for Ironton and Ashland (20 miles or so away) as though they were relevant for Huntington. I'm talking about the activities of the towns themselves and immediate environs... not some abstract MSA figures that for small towns like Huntington and Morgantown really are not that relevant. That's like saying retail in Fairmont (19 miles away) is somehow closely related to retail in Morgantown.

I will agree that it will be interesting to see the new figures for retail when they come out. Remember, Monongalia has made great advances in retailing in the past decade with Glen Mark and other retail developments. A lot of Cabell's retail is based close to the Putnam line, so they draw people who might normally go to Kanawha there and there is limited relationship to Huntington. If you're going to the Mall from Huntington, you need to pack a lunch. The new retail near Morgantown might well provide added draw from Waynesburg and Uniontown, thus the county ratings could be quite different. It will be interesting to see.

The numbers for Cabell County do not include stats for Ashland and Ironton. Retail sales are still 1 and 1/2 times Mon County. The stats for Cabell are pretty much Huntington "itself and the immediate environs." Great strides have been made here since 2002 as well. Pullman Square and new businesses Downtown (as previously mentioned), 2 new Super Wal-Marts, a new Target and surrounding shopping plaza, the River Place Plaza in Barboursville and others. And there's a developer waiting on a sewer line ready to develop 200 acres with $80 million in investment that will be right off I-64 and likely incorporated into Huntington City limits. And 12 minutes to get to the Mall from Huntington requires you to "pack a lunch"? You must have to pack a lunch each time you travel around Morgantown then. And the Glen-Mark Center was already up there in 2002. There have been a few additions but it was mostly built.

You also didn't answer my previous question, how do you feel when you watch the interview with Mayor Justice and they speak of the growth being founded on government money and a model for socialism? Especially after you claimed Morgantown gets little to no help from the state.

Here's the link to where I found the economic census data at since you asked for it earler and said the info was suspect. So now the U.S. Census Bureau is "suspect" huh?
2002 Economic Census: Summary Statistics by 2002 NAICS - Monongalia County, WV

[CTMountaineer]

Originally Posted by tbailey1138

The numbers for Cabell County do not include stats for Ashland and Ironton. Retail sales are still 1 and 1/2 times Mon County. The stats for Cabell are pretty much Huntington "itself and the immediate environs." Great strides have been made here since 2002 as well. Pullman Square and new businesses Downtown (as previously mentioned), 2 new Super Wal-Marts, a new Target and surrounding shopping plaza, the River Place Plaza in Barboursville and others. And there's a developer waiting on a sewer line ready to develop 200 acres with $80 million in investment that will be right off I-64 and likely incorporated into Huntington City limits. And 12 minutes to get to the Mall from Huntington requires you to "pack a lunch"? You must have to pack a lunch each time you travel around Morgantown then. And the Glen-Mark Center was already up there in 2002. There have been a few additions but it was mostly built.

You also didn't answer my previous question, how do you feel when you watch the interview with Mayor Justice and they speak of the growth being founded on government money and a model for socialism? Especially after you claimed Morgantown gets little to no help from the state.

Here's the link to where I found the economic census data at since you asked for it earler and said the info was suspect. So now the U.S. Census Bureau is "suspect" huh?
2002 Economic Census: Summary Statistics by 2002 NAICS - Monongalia County, WV

Tim, ... I think 12 minutes to get to the Mall is pretty optomistic for most people in Huntington. It's almost closer to Hurricane and is definitely not right outside of town. I was there just two weeks ago. Construction at Glen Mark continues unabated, and a whole lot has been put in during the past 7 years. Next time you are in town, take a drive and see for yourself.

I see that your figures for Cabell and Monongalia were accurate, and it will be very interesting to see the trends when the new figures come out. I think we can agree to withold judgement until then.

You have a point about Mayor Justice's remarks. There is no question that the area has benefitted from Federal expenditures in the area, but the State has put very little funding there in recent years. Even the completion of the Mon/Fayette will be done with Federal funds, and the $400 million riverside development is getting no State assistance at all. Governor Photo Op likes to brag about having a surpluss, but another way of looking at that is (1) either it indicates that taxes are too high, or (2) it means his administration has not been doing anything substantial. Personally, I think it is the latter.

[Orwelleaut]

Originally Posted by triax10

I have a question on census data and university/college students. You typically hear that college students are not counted in census data, and in particular in Morgantown, there is the discussion that with students, the city holds many more people. Why is it then that in the 2000 census, over 12,500 people in the census data for Morgantown are between 15 and 24, compared to 3,500 for Fairmont, 4,000 for Wheeling, 2,000 for Clarksburg, and 6,000 for Charleston. In other words, a full 47% of the Morgantown 2000 population is in that age bracket, compared to percentages of 6 to 13% for other similarly sized cities in the state. I cannot imagine all these people not being students-- it simply does not add up.

47%??? Can we say "Generation Y" hell???? For anyone over 35, I don't think this would make Morgantown very inviting

[WVUPharm2007]

Originally Posted by Orwelleaut

47%??? Can we say "Generation Y" hell???? For anyone over 35, I don't think this would make Morgantown very inviting

I'd be afraid of an entire generation of kids that were generally smarter than my generation, too.