NBC: "Morgantown an economic oasis" (Charleston, Huntington: home, employment)

[CTMountaineer]

Originally Posted by tbailey1138

Good assessment of Marshall and the education breakdown in the state Kennedy. Many of the schools in Southern WV actually used to be branches of Marshall from what I've read. Then the state did something similar to what they did with the community colleges and made them all separate entities. Going back to this system would allow them to offer satellite courses and further educational opportunity. The state also needs to look at funding schools on a per student formula. This would reward growth and minimize how much politicos could hold a school ransom using funding as leverage, i.e. the Bresch incident.



It cracks me up how you continue to throw this around like it gives you more credibility in the issue. You've adimted before that you got your main degree from WVU and then supplemented that degree with classes from MANY other institutions depending on where you lived at the time. Marshall just happened to be one of them. Your loyalty lies with WVU and that's quite obvious, even at the expense of the state. Sad you can't see this. This state needs MORE educational opportunities but you want them to close them all except WVU or at least give WVU control over all of them. Sounds like a GREAT way to provide more educational opportunity for the state. Especially considering what they've done with Tech. I'm a WVU grad for those wondering. Never took a class at MU.



So coming to an agreement between the 2 entities is "controversy broiling over". Never ceases to amaze me how you spin stuff. That and the fee was only to be $150 per student or the same rate as Marshall students. That rec center has been nothing but successful so far and is likely part of why MU's applications are up 11% and admissions are up over 5%.

MCTC, Marshall go separate ways - The Herald Dispatch
Freshman applications up at MU - The Herald Dispatch

If you are so concerned about the things you listed at Marshall, why aren't you raising a stink about WVU's applications being down 7% even though they are up at most other WV schools? Also, why aren't you complaining about the fact that they are paying the new president there $450,000 per year? That's $195,000 more than the previous president. Yet you complain about Kopp's pay raise of $70,000 and the new guy up there hasn't even done anything yet. What's fair for the goose is fair for the gander. And you may blame Manchin for "Degree Gate" but it was ultimately WVU that awarded the degree. You don't seem to complain about that much either except, of course, to place all the blame on Manchin.

WVU blames application shortfall on economy - The Herald Dispatch
WVU, Clements have yet to ink deal on presidency - The Herald Dispatch
Charleston Daily Mail - West Virginia News and Sports - News - Schools wary of economy fallout as semester begins*

Tim, this post is about Morgantown, and I was merely responding to Kennedy's post. But, since you insist on making it an issue you really should get your facts straight. The fee is indeed $300 per year. The Community College requested that it not be assessed their students for the first semester, but Marshall failed to honor that. Now that the split is basically finalized, they will not be paying it in the future:

MCTC students will not pay fee for rec center - News

There is a certain accusatory tone to your post that seems somehow strange, as though you were making it personal. I'm not going to respond in kind, but will point out that you know very little about me, so you might not want to second guess my motives. I happen to have degrees from both WVU and Marshall. I do like WVU better, and that is based on my first hand experience of actually going to both schools. That does not, however, mean that I want Marshall to fail, or that I appreciate it when someone is doing something that I see as incredibly stupid in terms of running the school. The fact that I am somewhat of a lifelong student only serves to give me more information on which to base comparisons. It's not as though I were sitting in Huntington on the outside looking in and supposing that I actually know what it is like to go to school at Marshall. No offense intended.

You seem to very selectively read the Herald Disgrace. It couldn't have been more than a couple weeks ago when the support staff were making headlines complaining that their pay was so low many qualified for food stamps. Since tuition is a huge part of any institution's budget, and since Marshall has a miniscule endowment (something like 5% of my fellow alums contribute, which is pathetic), one could logically conclude that 5 state tuition discounts when there is no WV subsidy for them might negatively impact salaries Duh... And, with a static budget if you create redundant programs the resources can only come from staff pay raises or existing programs (if this isn't so, then where would it originate?).

I'm not particularly concerned about having 300/350 or so fewer applicants for next year's Freshman class at WVU. They have made it known that they want to back the undergraduate enrollment down a bit anyway because the current infrastructure is overextended (150 less or so is what I have been told), and it is intended that there will be more of an emphasis on graduate studies and research in the future. Plans call for an optimum enrollment of 30,000, but that is years down the road.

Marshall's enrollment is down thousands from a few years ago, and if Kopp doesn't finish ruining the place they will be just fine. Rebuilding it with rediculously cheap tuition is beyond pathetic. Walmart has no place in higher education if someone is at all interested in quality. I will, however, say that if he keeps making it cheaper and cheaper he will eventually have poverty lower income students falling all over themselves to fill classes with poorly paid professors who are already upset about being overworked and underpaid. Marshall has basic in-state tuition of $2,500 per year and essentially gives that rate to grandchildren of graduates no whether they are residents or not. They offer their "Metro Rate" out-of-state tuition for $4,165 per semester. Then the school whines and cries about being broke all the time.
Fairmont State's in-state tuition is $2,729 and out-of-state is $5,824 for example. Kopp is building enrollment and competing with even smaller schools using Walmart type tuition discounts.

The State lacks the resources to fund numerous redundant programs. It is a small state, and is not exactly flush with cash. With today's excellent transportation system, there is no reason to squander scarce resources in this manner. The push should be for quality... not quantity.

Like many of my fellow Marshall alums, you want to compare WVU and Marshall as though they were somehow equivalent entities. As a West Virginia grad you should know better than that. Marshall is closer to Fairmont State in size than it is to West Virginia. You don't hear them whinning over in Fairmont all the time because they aren't everything to be found at Marshall. Much of the so-called "development" going on at Marshall is actually harmful to the State's higher education mission, just as the new Community College bureaucracy is a waste of resources.

I know you aren't clueless, so it is almost a certainty you know that the Governor in West Virginia appoints the majority of board members for the State's institutions of higher learning. He essentially has control over them, even if indirectly. Given that, and the fact that his hand picked board members picked his daughter's best friend and his handpicked successor to be President, do you really want to try to imply that he had no hand in the pressure applied to get Heather a degree? If he thought enough of you, he could get you a degree from Marshall too, although in today's climate he might be warry of the effort.

His political interference in higher education is a disgrace, and has harmed the State in a significant way. The community college fiasco is the tip of the iceberg.

WVU is big enough to overcome the damage he inflicted, and will be there long after he is gone. Basically, it is a thing of the past already, just as is the problem that was at Marshall when instructors were giving athletes final exam answers a few years ago, and actually they can't connect that to Gov. Photo Op. I don't place all the blame on him, but those complicit were forced out (scape goated) so what's the sense of bringing them in on it?

[CTMountaineer]

Originally Posted by David Kennedy

I see the Pennsi people being loyal to Pennsi.

My cousin could have gone to WVU for her Nursing Degree but opted for Waynesburg instead and she lives in Mt. Morris...WVU was certainly a closer commute.

A great percentage of the WVU student body is from Pennsi...stands to reason that the god father of the north would see the drain and establish twin campus's on the border town of Uniontown.

We are becoming the bottom rung of the Pittsburgh region and It will be GOOD for us...force us into a higher bracket of learning and culture...

Kennedy, ... Some people go to Waynesburg because they simply want to go to a small college. It has nothing to do with loyalty to Pennsylvania. And, where in the world are you getting this crap about forcing us into anything. Get real! The yinzers will finally be able to get some culture and get away from the urban blight to the north for a much more desirable quality of life and more learned grouping in Morgantown, one of America's smartest cities. Are you a spy from sPitt? I'm beginning to wonder.

[GottaHerdOn]

Originally Posted by CTMountaineer

Kennedy, ... Some people go to Waynesburg because they simply want to go to a small college. It has nothing to do with loyalty to Pennsylvania. And, where in the world are you getting this crap about forcing us into anything. Get real! The yinzers will finally be able to get some culture and get away from the urban blight to the north for a much more desirable quality of life and more learned grouping in Morgantown, one of America's smartest cities. Are you a spy from sPitt? I'm beginning to wonder.

Nope, he's a realist and a very intelligent one at that

[NOVAmtneer82]

I'm not trying to get in the middle of the WVU/Marshall debate but I should point out a mere increase or decrease in applications from a random given week last year to this year doesn't really shed light on whether a school is going to come out ahead or behind in enrollment figures next semester. College students often apply to 10 or 20 schools so merely receiving a few more students applications this year doesn't really explain anything. If they all indeed decide to actually attend the school (if accepted) then that is a story.

And man oh man what is the Herald Dispatch's deal with WVU? I always see on these threads that both schools should prosper for the benefit of the state but it doesn't seem the Huntington press feels that way.

[CTMountaineer]

Originally Posted by mtneeratheart

I'm not trying to get in the middle of the WVU/Marshall debate but I should point out a mere increase or decrease in applications from a random given week last year to this year doesn't really shed light on whether a school is going to come out ahead or behind in enrollment figures next semester. College students often apply to 10 or 20 schools so merely receiving a few more students applications this year doesn't really explain anything. If they all indeed decide to actually attend the school (if accepted) then that is a story.

And man oh man what is the Herald Dispatch's deal with WVU? I always see on these threads that both schools should prosper for the benefit of the state but it doesn't seem the Huntington press feels that way.

When I went to school there, I was surprised to learn that just about nobody there feels that way. In an unbelievable mass example of penis envy, they compare themselves in every possible way to WVU. And, every time they don't measure up (which is a whole lot of the time) it is someone else's fault. And, when they don't have something WVU has, it is someone else's responsibility to give it to them.

Bailey is blowing this application letters thing way out of proportion. It is of little consequence. Worst case scenario is WVU has 350 fewer freshmen next year due to the economy and some people not being able to afford to go away to school. That puts them at the same level they were in 2007. No big deal. And, if Marshall get's 5% more students like they project, that means a whopping 120 or so new freshman students... still below what they had a few years ago, and they are doing it with cheap tuition but we have already been over that. West Virginia's enrollment will again climb out of control when the economy improves. Who knows what will happen with Marshall's. I hope they do okay, but they need to do it the right way... not by cutting everyone else's throats or stabbing them in the back.

[David Kennedy]

Within the Wv education realm, the penis envy of Marshall is quite evident...and the prostitution of a Masters at WVU was enough to set the House of OLD MAIN on fire.

When the cleansing began, it was the faculty pushing the reforms and they are still being the watch dogs.
It was their reputations being sullied.

If anything has come of this for Marshall it is this...they have pushed their credible reputation to a higher level,
while WVU has sunk a little.

Don't think the word isn't out to the Pennsi kids to get their Degrees in the home state.

Pittsburgh has a marketing strategy for WV and it's in full force...we have money down here and they want it...and college tuition is part of it.
and it's lasting...do you give money to your Alma Mater's? I do and what is surprising is the number of donation letters I get from WVU...about 6 a year. The others hardly ever send a request.

Lastly, Gov Mojo days will pass...thank God! The answer to higher education is FREE EDUCATION.

If the public servant graft was nonexistent, we could do that, even here in Wv.
Require higher enrollment tests and do away with the welfare, 'stick them with a loan forever style of college degree mentality.

[NOVAmtneer82]

I'm not really sure I agree that Marshall is any more credible than West Virginia University because of the degree scandal. I can pretty much guarantee Marshall or any other college for that matter wouldn't want ethics committees searching through years of their own degree award records. To try and imply that political influence hasn't somehow found its way into most schools in America is simply not realistic. The only difference is West Virginia happened to get caught.

[CTMountaineer]

Originally Posted by David Kennedy

Within the Wv education realm, the penis envy of Marshall is quite evident...and the prostitution of a Masters at WVU was enough to set the House of OLD MAIN on fire.

When the cleansing began, it was the faculty pushing the reforms and they are still being the watch dogs.
It was their reputations being sullied.

If anything has come of this for Marshall it is this...they have pushed their credible reputation to a higher level,
while WVU has sunk a little.

Don't think the word isn't out to the Pennsi kids to get their Degrees in the home state.

Pittsburgh has a marketing strategy for WV and it's in full force...we have money down here and they want it...and college tuition is part of it.
and it's lasting...do you give money to your Alma Mater's? I do and what is surprising is the number of donation letters I get from WVU...about 6 a year. The others hardly ever send a request.

Lastly, Gov Mojo days will pass...thank God! The answer to higher education is FREE EDUCATION.

If the public servant graft was nonexistent, we could do that, even here in Wv.
Require higher enrollment tests and do away with the welfare, 'stick them with a loan forever style of college degree mentality.

Please,... and you don't think that kind of crap goes on anywhere? Get real. Aside from Gov. Photo Op, all the principals have moved on after being scape goated. Same thing happened a few years ago at Marshall with the athlete final exam test answers scandal, except they hung around a few more years and really dragged the place through the mud in the process.

The Manchins believe (seemingly with some justification) that they are somehow above the rest of us peons in the State and can get whatever they want when they want it with impunity. If the electorate doesn't wise up, they just might be able to get away with it. He is a smooth master of impressions, and some people are very naive and impressionable. That is exemplified by Manchin's 70% election win as well as Kopps popularity. The sheep don't know they've been duped until it's too late.

For the faculty to be successful at reforming anything, they need to change the system statewide so that the politicos aren't involved in the process. Until that takes place, they will manipulate at every turn as usual.

Pittsburgh is logically marketing to their strengths, just as will Morgantown. Each area has its plusses to sell, and Morgantown will get its fair share of the proceeds. Remember, the Pittsburgh pie is larger, so we don't need as big a slice to come out ahead. I expect we will be just fine. Don't listen to so many liberal doomsday people. Their persistent negativity will ruin the benefits of incredible positive momentum... sort of like hanging around in Huntington or my hometown of Wheeling too long. The new 2 yr. Penn State campus will likely have some short term effect on freshman enrollment. It might actually increase upper class enrollment.

Combined with the current economy, there is bound to be an adjustment period. WVU is getting unprecidented positive exposure through the athletic teams and being part of the Big East Conference. In the NYC area, where I spent 15 years, the school is very well known and increasingly popular.

I don't follow your logic about free higher education. Just who do you suppose will be paying the bills? The community college system is designed to alleviate much of the burden for low income folks, and it does a good job of that. Most people don't mind paying a little extra for the more comprehensive experience, and the more discerning folks will pay a little higher tuition to go to West Virginia as opposed to the smaller school in the southwest part of the state where discounts are seemingly a way of life.

[Angel713]

According to the Census, I fail to see how Morgantown is an "economic oasis": Morgantown, WV Metropolitan Statistical Area (CBSA) Population and Components of Change

[NOVAmtneer82]

I guess it could be in regard to the low unemployment rates and economic opportunities in terms of population. That would be my best guess. But yes I do agree the census growth rates don't exactly make it seem like an economic powerhouse. From my personal experience of going to school in Morgantown there didn't seem to be a whole lot outside of West Virginia University related jobs along with healthcare and the service industry. There weren't exactly a lot of people in my class who stayed behind after graduating, most went to the DC area or further south to the Carolinas. That being said if someone wanted to stay in town after graduation they would find a job much easier than in other parts of the state. I must admit if I wanted to live in a smaller town with plenty of amenities, Morgantown would be near the top of my list.

Compared to other parts of West Virginia I guess it is major growth but the Morgantown area still isn't even growing as fast as the Eastern Panhandle which is on the fringe of metropolitan Washington DC/Baltimore. I live in the DC area and it usually averages between 50,000 and 75,000 new residents per year even though housing prices are some of the highest in the nation. Being in Texas you also know all about major growth. I guess it's all about perspective.