Kerosene Heat in Rural Areas (Charleston, Lewisburg: insurance, new home, transfer)

[Elaine54]

I just came up from NC to visit my elderly parents, who live in their family home. I smelled a ton of fumes coming from their kerosene stove, which was not in use. They claimed they were unaware of the problem. Anyway, to make a long story short... I had to put my Dad in the hospital for CO2 retention...pull-up the carpeting and take out the stove. I think the stove could have been defective or the line may not have been completely closed.

I now have a problem as to what to do about heating. My Mom claims she used this as a back-up to her other stove in the kitchen. She also likes this type of heating because she has heat when the power goes out. But since this type of heating is a little antiquated...I don't know, if they still sell these kind of stoves. Some of her neighbors use propane in a tank or use an electric furnance. She is driving me crazy to insist on this type of heating because ....she says at least I have heat!

HELP! I'm stumped and feel helpless.

[David Kennedy]

OK, Elaine...you have done 'the duty...righteously invaded the privacy of your parents home and cast out the 'demon stove. AND justifiably.... as dad is in the hospital with c02 retention.

Beg your mothers forgiveness and go buy a better kerosene stove for them.

This is an issue of control and guilt, pure and simple...you feel guilty because you are not near them to protect them from you/themselves. Get some counciling about this.

West Virginia does not have the electric service it enjoyed 20 years ago...back-up heat systems are a must.
In every new home we build today, we try to place gas as a back up fuel in a vented/ventless heat system.

Nice stoves are on the market. They are vented to the outside and burn fuel oil, kerosene, french fry and motor oil...they cost about $1600 plus installation...these are cast iron parlor stoves.

Whole house, 50,000 btu kerosene wall furnaces are also available. These cost about $1000 plus installation. I would make sure it was gravity fed unit.

Good luck, and dont forget about that carpet you removed...shouldn't be more than $200 and you and the hubby can put it down in an hour or two..

A peace offering is needed...don't you think. The right thing for mom, for sure!

[Elaine54]

Thank you David,
As you can tell, I grew-up in the city with a natural gas line. I guess I haven't paid too much attention to the mechanics of it all until now. Now, since they live in sort of a remote area.....how can I get a hold of one of these "parlor" stoves? They have a tank, which is gravity fed with kerosene and a flue to the outside. I have been educated by my Mom this is fuel oil #1 not #2. I've already been reminded....they have about $1400 tied-up in the cost of the fuel. Do I try to find a heating contractor???

I swear, I feel very exasperated in just trying to find the person or even service. This is not like living in my neck of the woods, where I can just call my local heating contractor.

Oh, we did pick out some new carpeting!

[snorpus]

Of course, in a properly functioning system, there shouldn't be any fumes. My suspicion is that there was a leak at a fitting, allowing the kerosene from the line to the stove to soak into the carpet. The fumes probably weren't CO2, but some of the other volatile components of kerosene.

I think the least expensive approach would be to see if the existing system is fixable; switching to either propane or electric heat is going to be fairly costly. Properly maintained (yearly cleanings and adjustments, etc.), a kerosene system isn'[t any more dangerous than oil or propane. The kero stove itself may be dirty/clogged, or the flue. Its fairly common for flues to get blocked by birds nests, squirrels, etc., which then causes the combustion gasses to back up into the house. CO2 is a product of combustion, and a blocked flue, rather than a fuel leak, may be where the excess CO2 is coming from.

Union is south of Lewisburg on Rte 219... here's a Google list of HVAC contractors in Lewisburg and environs.

[David Kennedy]

I doubt if you would need a Heating Contractor Pre-se...perhaps a pellet stove store could help you.

BUT
In these days, many of the heating contractors carry different heat sources to augment their furnace line.
Make sure they inspect the flue, as Snorpus reminded. This is worth doing right and that will give everyone the peace of mind that is demanded...good for you all.

Make sure that contractor gives you a ball cap for 'dad's hat collection.

[harborlady]

Pellet stove fuel is an excellent suggestion if they're homebodies in the winter & never travel during that season. Not sure what they'll do with that $1,400 worth of kero already delivered though- that's a lifetime of hurricane lamps! Charleston's feed and seed carries wood cords, pellets & coal fuel and ace hardware carried the coal, wood, & pellet stoves. Stand alone units, some of which belong in basement utility, others are 'parlor'. Check those local sources and you might be pleasantly surprised. Buying off season during a slow economy is bound to offer you the best deal, so see the silver lining in the situation.

As snorp suggested, any version of combustion will have carbon build up or unexpected visitors if it's idle too long so annual servicing before heating season kicks in should be a priority. If the fuel sits too long over seasons it may need bactricide additives because microorganisms can form blooms (sort of like algae) that also clog up the works. Defeats the point of on demand heat when it doesn't work when you need it to work. The most econo way to deal with this is fix the leak, service the unit for next years heating season, with plans to replace it once the fuel is spent. Handling charges for retrieving the fuel will likely be excessive. The industry is geared toward delivery, not to retrieval. Underground tanks involved might also be an $$$ pill depending on local DEC regs.

The carpet was saturated enough to toss it and that makes me start wondering about the subfloor. The scent may linger even though chronic exposure to the scent makes it less obvious to them. Before laying down the new carpeting, try pouring straight simple green on the area, agitate a bit with a scrubber, and leave it sit a while before wiping it up. A week to let the wood dry can be shortened if you've got a dehumidifier. They sell gallons of simple green at home depot for about $10 or you can find smaller spray bottles in automotive sections. Great degreaser, smells good, and should prevent any transfer of lingering residue from wicking up into the new padding/ carpeting. The hard way is cutting out that section of sub floor and just replacing it with new. Likely not necessary unless it got soft or so saturated it's a fire hazard.

As for coping with older folks and still trying to be respectful... about 15yrs ago I realized my grandmother wasn't taking care of the way as independently as I thought. Turns out she was avoiding the doctor and had quite a few health issues going on all at once. Macular degenerative disease being one of them (she was going blind). Her nutrition was also suffering because she was stubborn about replacing her 30 yr old dentures (jaw bone changes over years and they didn't fit anymore). The old adage is true- nurses are the worst patients.

Scary thing to watch her unravel with these arguments she was having with herself. She's been my best friend my whole life, but it wasn't about me. Try to remember it's hard enough dealing with a changing body/ brain daily & trying to adapt to the new circumstances delivered by nature. The last thing they need is arguments from well meaning family members. It wasn't until we really sat down heart to heart and faced reality bluntly that she realized there were creative solutions we could implement that would preserve her independence for as long as possible. All the worries from both sides got put on the kitchen table and dealt with directly. I also had to point out that she was still teaching me, but this time it was how to grow old gracefully.

The less obtrusive 'help' I give her is setting up auto payments for the bills so things don't get overlooked. The family encourages vacation twice a year to visit relatives while I do a full blown cleaning in fall and spring. Everything from checking the expiration dates on medicines in cabinet, salad dressings in fridge, pantry etc. Whatever perishables I toss I replace with new so she never notices. Whatever else needs decision gets put in a laundry basket for her to decide if it stays or goes. Seasonal items for holidays get rotated from top shelf to eye level to prevent her from climbing ladders. I also leave a detailed list of what I did so she knows it's still her house & I'm just the freebie maid service.

Things are much easier for me because she lives in a senior complex. There are pull cords on the walls, they watch over one another like hawks, and she even has a life alert electronic button she can push to call the fire dept if anything went wrong. Rural life is harder on older folks, but it's important to acknowledge that's a choice they've made (as if DNR or living wills when an ambulance is 30 min away). An example of an adaptive solution is going to red cross first aid training class with them to enable them to help themselves directly.

Power struggles are to be avoided because seniors experience it as betrayal from their own kin, or their confidence in themselves gets rattled very hard. Rule of thumb- I never go wrong when I ask what she wants. From that point I offer a list of options she can choose from with pro's and con's specified. Your parents aren't there yet but setting the tone early will go a long way towards really being the help they most need vs the one they dread calling when there's a real problem. Hope that helps.

[Elaine54]

Thank you all so much for some very good advice for this "City Slicker". True, it can be very hard on the elderly living in rural areas. I try my darnest to comply with their wishes, but we have to make some compromises. I can't say enough about their local Council on Aging...to provide transportation to Dr's visits and local shopping. I only hope when it's my turn...my daughters will be as thoughtful.
Thanks again!

[Bobilee]

Here is a website for Lehman's, which is one of my favorite stores. While you might not buy anything from them, they give you a really good idea of what is out there. They sell a lot to the Amish. Stoves*|*Heat Stoves - Lehmans.com

[David Kennedy]

Thanks, Bobilee, but the heater I had in mind was kerosene, # 1 fuel oil...gravity fed with a pot style burner.

Toyo Laser L-73...has a fan and is capable of heating about 1500 sq ft...can be ran on low speed to really conserve fuel...uses 1/2 the fuel in comparison to inferior models.

[Elaine54]

Well, after a lot of talking around the kitchen table...we came to a decision. It seems like I'm having a hard time to find a replacement stove...I saw a beautiful "parlor" model coming from a distributor in Canada to N. American dealers, but when I called them (Gassaway & Maryland)...no luck. I'm hesitate about any imports coming out of say 3rd worlds ( don't mean to be biased, but not sure if construction would meet standards to give a clean burn). Look at all the problems we're having with China ( tainted drywall, etc.). She will use her existing oil for this winter with her small kitchen stove ... with her electric baseboard heat, then will make the switch to propane as her back-up. I'm trying to be "green". The oil stove is not that environmental...what happens if there is a leak at her outside tank...think of the cost of a clean-up, which she has no insurance to do. Also, she has to get someone in to clean the stove and flue each year. When you look at the MDS (Material Data Sheet) on these types of fuels .. kinda scary. My parents are in their late 70's and early 80's....I'm just trying to make them comfortable...I'm not concerned with cost at this point. Now, for the future when it's my turn...how about geo-thermal??? Would this work for this area???