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Old 12-07-2009, 10:15 PM
 
9,327 posts, read 11,126,068 times
Reputation: 1470

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Threerun View Post
Going after illegals is the wrong approach. It costs to much to apprehend them, build fences, hire border guards, build prisons, etc.

You go after the folks with the $$ that hire them, personal and corporate. You hit them where it hurts. You scrutinize tax returns, employee records.. You know- all the politically unpopular but really effective things to solve the issue. In the process you catch all the business cheats that fudge their income and expense records and hammer them too.

But it's more popular to build fences, I guess.
You need to do both, apprehend the illegals and go after the
employers aggressively. A lot of them don't come here to
seek illicit employment through what would be considered
normal channels. Many of those with whom I had to deal
came only to commit crimes. This is a "land of opportunity"
for illegal alien criminals too.

And, those fences about which you are rolling your eyes
have had a positive effect. It all helps.
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Old 12-07-2009, 10:19 PM
 
9,327 posts, read 11,126,068 times
Reputation: 1470
Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVA1990 View Post
This thread makes no sense. There are no more than a few thousand undocumenteds in your entire state. You're about the lowest in the nation. Think about it - why would they go somewhere that has a lower standard of living than where they're coming from? Seems you folks might be better off relocating South of the border.
Well Cava... and I take it from your "handle" you are from
East of the Blue Ridge, perhaps you haven't spend any
significant amount of time in our beautiful state. Much of
it actually has a significantly better standard of living than
much of Virginia, and the people definitely have a better
attitude.

Illegal aliens adversely affect all of us, even those in areas
where they don't (yet) exist in large numbers because they
increase the Federal tax burden for which we are all respon-
sible and decrease the quality of life for all of us. And,
since we are a highly mobile society, when they take a job
in Fairfax that is one job that is not available for the best
American applicant from wherever he/she might originate.
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Old 12-07-2009, 10:28 PM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,132 posts, read 25,730,544 times
Reputation: 6788
We have a lot of them around here and it doesn't seem to be a problem. Whatever we lose in taxes we more than make up in labor savings and good ethnic food.
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Old 12-08-2009, 04:56 AM
 
Location: Elkins, WV
1,981 posts, read 5,147,006 times
Reputation: 806
Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVA1990 View Post
We have a lot of them around here and it doesn't seem to be a problem. Whatever we lose in taxes we more than make up in labor savings and good ethnic food.
and well manicured lawns
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Old 12-08-2009, 06:26 AM
 
Location: Lost in Montana *recalculating*...
10,452 posts, read 14,090,501 times
Reputation: 10944
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTMountaineer View Post
You need to do both, apprehend the illegals and go after the
employers aggressively. A lot of them don't come here to
seek illicit employment through what would be considered
normal channels. Many of those with whom I had to deal
came only to commit crimes. This is a "land of opportunity"
for illegal alien criminals too.

And, those fences about which you are rolling your eyes
have had a positive effect. It all helps.
I respectfully disagree. You go after criminals regardless of their citizenship status, so that's already a given. No need to to institute some formal 'search for illegal criminals' policy in that regard. Arrest the criminals and ship them back, jail them, throw them off a cliff for all I care.

So what's left are those that are here illegally that are consuming 'our jobs and benefits' which is usually the argument ad naseum. The most effective way to deal with it is to aggressively go after the people that hire them and fine them and/or jail them. I absolutely guarantee it would be more effective than fences. It costs less than fences, jails and guards and we could actually make some dough through the fine revenue and increase in tax revenues (catching tax cheats in the process which is usually the case as well.)

However politically it would never happen. Waay to much greasing of palms for it to ever happen. Republicans would rather talk tough and build fences than p*ss off their business constituents and liberals would rather grant amnesty or look the other way.

Either way the most effective method get's pushed aside. Same old crapolla so yes- I still roll my eyes.
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Old 12-08-2009, 06:37 AM
 
4,712 posts, read 11,565,111 times
Reputation: 1048
What needs to be done is make our country unfavorable to them...and I don't know how to do that.

Perhaps, annexing Mexico would be the answer.


I'm reminded of General John Pershings solution to a moslem problem during one of his assignments as a Colonel.
In a skirmish, they captured 49 or 50 militants. They tied them to stakes before shooting them.
He had some of his men round up the swine from the village and kill and gut them in front of the moslems..He had his firing squad dip their bullets in the pig blood. They then pushed the pig bodies into the burail pit. All the militants but one was killed. He was left to watch the burial of his comrades with the swine gore. Then he was let go to spread the word. And a problem was solved...no military action against his troops for the duration.

Evidently...32 virgins and pig guts do not mix in the hereafter...

If I was a Marine sniper in Iraq or Afghanistan, I would ask the folks back home to send me a pint of pigs blood...

Wouldn't help the illegal problem in Wv...but it's a great story...
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Old 12-08-2009, 11:54 AM
 
88 posts, read 204,396 times
Reputation: 62
I think it's pretty obvious that the mentality behind some of these posts is "people who are set in their ways"

I get it. I'm probably debating with somebody's grandpa -- on the Internet, it's hard to tell who's who or where they're coming from.

But, for anyone who's reading (and maybe amused) by this discussion, here are a few more fun facts:

West Virginia's undocumented immigrant population is 0.2% if the total state population. That is 5,000 out of 1,814,468 people.

0.2% is hardly being "overrun"

The legal immigrant population is about the same at 0.3%
The Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR):

This data comes, actually, from a group that's vocal about tougher immigration pollicies and probably shares the views of the lawn tractor pundits who've been sounding off their concerns about "the illegal immigrant hordes taking their livelihood in WV!"

Even if you added it all together (legal and undocumented immigrants), it would be 1/2 of a percent of the population of West Virginia.

It's pretty obvious that there's more than a little xenophobia and overreaction in general going on in the Mountain State, which should come as a surprise to no one.

As far as solutions: I agree with Threerun's post that talks about tougher enforcement on employers. Another factor that gets ignored: there are two classes of "illegal immigrant:" those who had valid visas to enter the country, but stayed after the visas expired, and those who snuck in across the border (they don't all sneak in across the border). A simple, if bureaucratic, way to cut down on the "illegal count" is to make it easier for those who just overstayed their visas to re-adjust their status and become re-documented.

That would be a large percentage (about half) of the undocumented workers, allowing ICE, etc, to refocus on those who entered the country illegally if needed (or, better yet, in making the requirements less complicated, encourage those who entered illegally in the first place to go back home and apply for a visa in order to get here the proper way).
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=5485917

. . and here I thought I was done with this discussion, just wanted to come back and back up some good points I saw made by other people.
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Old 12-08-2009, 02:25 PM
 
88 posts, read 204,396 times
Reputation: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVA1990 View Post
This thread makes no sense. There are no more than a few thousand undocumenteds in your entire state. You're about the lowest in the nation. Think about it - why would they go somewhere that has a lower standard of living than where they're coming from? Seems you folks might be better off relocating South of the border.

Exactly. Funny thought here (if you go back to the beginning of the thread): all of these people phoning up the ICE hotline to report maybe 2-3 people they suspect of being "illegal immigrants."

ICE doesn't feel the need to expense the $50 in gas it would take to drive an agent out there to check out them out.

The running joke at the job site becomes "So, do you think that nosey guy with the binoculars is going to show up again today and threaten to have us deported?" Maybe they run sandwiches and coffee out to the guy's car, make friends with him, etc. It could be like the movie "Gran Torino" WV style (and with a completely different plot, just some of this reminds me of Clint Eastwood's character in that movie).
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Old 12-08-2009, 04:49 PM
 
Location: Lost in Montana *recalculating*...
10,452 posts, read 14,090,501 times
Reputation: 10944
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vells View Post
Exactly. Funny thought here (if you go back to the beginning of the thread): all of these people phoning up the ICE hotline to report maybe 2-3 people they suspect of being "illegal immigrants."
Pilgrims Pride in Moorefield WV was one of the recent raided sites where hundreds of illegals were picked up.

U.S. officials arrest hundreds of poultry workers | Reuters

Now the illegals were charged and fines levied on them (whoop-de-doo), but what happened to Pilgrims Pride? Anyone?

I'll tell you- nadda. The illegals presented fake social security numbers so technically Pilgrims Pride got off, even though they (Pilgrim's Pride) didn't perform background checks *cough-cough* to verify them.
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Old 12-08-2009, 05:05 PM
 
Location: Elkins, WV
1,981 posts, read 5,147,006 times
Reputation: 806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vells View Post
I think it's pretty obvious that the mentality behind some of these posts is "people who are set in their ways"

I get it. I'm probably debating with somebody's grandpa -- on the Internet, it's hard to tell who's who or where they're coming from.

But, for anyone who's reading (and maybe amused) by this discussion, here are a few more fun facts:

West Virginia's undocumented immigrant population is 0.2% if the total state population. That is 5,000 out of 1,814,468 people.

0.2% is hardly being "overrun"

The legal immigrant population is about the same at 0.3%
The Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR):

This data comes, actually, from a group that's vocal about tougher immigration pollicies and probably shares the views of the lawn tractor pundits who've been sounding off their concerns about "the illegal immigrant hordes taking their livelihood in WV!"

Even if you added it all together (legal and undocumented immigrants), it would be 1/2 of a percent of the population of West Virginia.

It's pretty obvious that there's more than a little xenophobia and overreaction in general going on in the Mountain State, which should come as a surprise to no one.

As far as solutions: I agree with Threerun's post that talks about tougher enforcement on employers. Another factor that gets ignored: there are two classes of "illegal immigrant:" those who had valid visas to enter the country, but stayed after the visas expired, and those who snuck in across the border (they don't all sneak in across the border). A simple, if bureaucratic, way to cut down on the "illegal count" is to make it easier for those who just overstayed their visas to re-adjust their status and become re-documented.

That would be a large percentage (about half) of the undocumented workers, allowing ICE, etc, to refocus on those who entered the country illegally if needed (or, better yet, in making the requirements less complicated, encourage those who entered illegally in the first place to go back home and apply for a visa in order to get here the proper way).
Nearly Half of Illegal Immigrants Overstay Visas : NPR

. . and here I thought I was done with this discussion, just wanted to come back and back up some good points I saw made by other people.
Exactly! I was an illegal in Poland last May. My visa was only for 3 months I believe and I stayed a little longer. I wonder if the old Polish men thought of me as a burden on their society??? hmmm or if its ok since I'm American and Americans are superior to the Polish and Mexicans????

All that happened when I went through EU customs in Poland and Germany was a mentioning of my visa being expired, little more than nothing. Maybe Poland should build a wall to keep the Americans out... seems about as logical ha ha
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