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Old 01-11-2010, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Charleston, West Virginia USA
68 posts, read 163,342 times
Reputation: 47

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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Kennedy View Post
I heard the real count was about 17.5% not 10%.
Correct.

Bureau of Labor Statistics is a more accurate accounting, which includes those off the radar and under-employed, as opposed to "unemployment" numbers, which is. only a headcount of those on the dole. This has always been very misleading. Politicians (and propagandists) prefer the latter, i.e., stating 10%, instead of 18%. It's like saying "We saved 50,000 jobs, whoo hoo!", instead of admitting we lost millions of jobs.

The propaganda wars are about to increase with amnesty being pushed by the hyenas, and by the way -- you will pay for their healthcare. So make no mistake, they are laughing at you (Congress, Senate, and White House), because they do not represent the interests of the American people. Jokes come to mind about shepherds and their sheep . . maybe the sheep like it? Watch for fabricated economic numbers mingled with with outright lies via mass media to promote amnesty, a dance around the truth :

The Federal Government, and those State governments, local municipalities, etc., are in collusion with organized crime in aiding and abetting them.
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Old 01-11-2010, 01:58 PM
 
11,961 posts, read 12,365,740 times
Reputation: 2772
And good for you DK, recognizing clearly it would be Americas loss denying the right people and allowing scofflaws free reign. Our government loses credibility with citizenry every moment the responsibility for this issue is abdicated.

Pilgrims pride was on sale at krogers and I walked past it, thanks to threerun, because my nose is ordinarily in other sections of the news. Thornier issues exist today-- americans have boycotted grapes before, but which are they to boycott when their competitors are chile, brazil, israel, or genetically modified agrabiz?

Buy american grapes, feed illegal immigrants. Buy foreign, feed someone else's economy/ expand trade deficit. Buy frankenfood, feed those who mean to patent seeds to control world food supply. Don't buy it means no raisin bran, no wine, no grape juice, no grapeseed oil, no concord grape brisket (no produce at all if you really think about it) ... forever? What real choice does anyone have? Not as simple today as it was many moons ago. KISS system rules, self sufficiency is your only real option if you can manage to be expert at every service you currently enjoy in our version of civilization. The lament of rural living, correct? Also the blessing of rural living.

The tradition of self sufficiency our elders passed onto us, whether practical means or mere philosophical, should never be abandoned. Not now, not ever. It would appear survival as species, and survival of freedoms we hold dear, depend upon that option remaining viable.

The Holy See should be answerable to the flock as well as to his God. It means more coming from his flock, the same way terrorists are renounced by faithful Muslims. It means more when Jews police their own IAW their own standards. Childish nonsense, power plays, grotesque manipulations... they can't live up to their own standard and mean to punish every citizen on the planet for their own failures as individuals.

Substitute the names and regions, objective observers would be hard pressed to discern a difference between christian or muslim extremism. The original documentation is far more blatant than this modern day retelling. CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Japanese Martyrs
When the Vatican drags us into war with China to defend their 'right' to proselytize, sarcasm may be silenced by the wisdom of separation of church and state.

CT do you feel taller blaming left wing for illegal immigration when they often disagree with illegal immigration? As threerun pointed out, there are select groups of individuals who have a vested interest in their presence. Left wing is consistently defending the rights of immigrants against xenophobic crap, some of which you've spewed in this thread in an over reach to sell people an idea. You are your own worst enemy on this issue. Stick with facts, stop blaming the wrong people, you might discover there are far more citizens of EVERY political bent in agreement.
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Old 01-11-2010, 03:00 PM
 
9,368 posts, read 11,365,629 times
Reputation: 1505
Do I feel "taller"? That's rediculous. I am outraged that
zealots from both the left and the right betray the rest of
us by refusing to enforce our laws to promote their own
narrow agendas. I blame the left wing for ignorance when
we have millions of unemployed, and they pretend that
Americans "wouldn't do the work". They would do the work
for a fair wage. And, I blame the right wing for greed, and
for not realizing that they harm our country as a whole by
promoting this insanity just to get cheap labor.

Both groups ignore the wishes and interests of the Nation
as a whole.
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Old 01-11-2010, 04:34 PM
 
11,961 posts, read 12,365,740 times
Reputation: 2772
Both groups do, for their own narrow reasons at expense of larger picture that applies to us all universally. This we can agree.

Zealotry-- they have no need to resort to those tactics when laziness/ ignoring the law suffices. The law is not being enforced by either party of a 2 party dominated system. Would we all be in agreement that immigration policy is dated or needs repair, none have taken meaningful action to bring it up to date. Campaigning Dems giving lip service to illegal immigrants... their feet are doing what about the issue? Perpetuating it. Reps give lip service to citizens... their feet are doing what about the issue? Perpetuating it. These aren't extreme ideologies hanging out on the fringe, this is what we have happening in main stream political parties.

I'm glad you're mad as hell, because you should be. This is a representational system and americans are blatantly not being represented. We're supposed to be a nation of just laws and due process, and the law is not being enforced save for when it's politically convenient. When we're failing to live up to our own definition as a nation, we're failing as a nation regardless of political affinity. Our constitution trumps all, regardless of race, creed, gender, regional affinity, or whatever constitutes a category of american in our one nation.

The category of immigration on CD... if you'll listen to the arguments in every single one of those hate filled threads you'll find people resorting to irrational arguments that embody anti american sentiments all the while claiming themselves to be american. Like teabaggers who throw the kitchen sink in their arguments, salient points are abused in the fray of one upsmanship. America was founded upon an abiding love of freedom, not hatred of others, not homogenized purity of blood lines, not biblical dictation or sanctimonious BS. Read those threads and guard against the flaws of logic, especially the habit of denying any political bent a right to exist in our system. That said, any left, right, or point in between wing wants to challenge me on this issue, bring it on. I've already paid my dues as impartial observer. Those unwilling to knock on the front door of my home can expect to be shot for trespassing.

GHO- be willing to see the greater economic impact upon the masses. This isn't innocent and I think you know me a little better than to relegate me to the cartoon pile of xenophobic. No matter which perspective this problem is approached, it's unhealthy/ dysfunctional and must go.
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Old 01-11-2010, 05:06 PM
 
Location: Elkins, WV
1,981 posts, read 5,200,335 times
Reputation: 807
Quote:
Originally Posted by harborlady View Post
Both groups do, for their own narrow reasons at expense of larger picture that applies to us all universally. This we can agree.

Zealotry-- they have no need to resort to those tactics when laziness/ ignoring the law suffices. The law is not being enforced by either party of a 2 party dominated system. Would we all be in agreement that immigration policy is dated or needs repair, none have taken meaningful action to bring it up to date. Campaigning Dems giving lip service to illegal immigrants... their feet are doing what about the issue? Perpetuating it. Reps give lip service to citizens... their feet are doing what about the issue? Perpetuating it. These aren't extreme ideologies hanging out on the fringe, this is what we have happening in main stream political parties.

I'm glad you're mad as hell, because you should be. This is a representational system and americans are blatantly not being represented. We're supposed to be a nation of just laws and due process, and the law is not being enforced save for when it's politically convenient. When we're failing to live up to our own definition as a nation, we're failing as a nation regardless of political affinity. Our constitution trumps all, regardless of race, creed, gender, regional affinity, or whatever constitutes a category of american in our one nation.

The category of immigration on CD... if you'll listen to the arguments in every single one of those hate filled threads you'll find people resorting to irrational arguments that embody anti american sentiments all the while claiming themselves to be american. Like teabaggers who throw the kitchen sink in their arguments, salient points are abused in the fray of one upsmanship. America was founded upon an abiding love of freedom, not hatred of others, not homogenized purity of blood lines, not biblical dictation or sanctimonious BS. Read those threads and guard against the flaws of logic, especially the habit of denying any political bent a right to exist in our system. That said, any left, right, or point in between wing wants to challenge me on this issue, bring it on. I've already paid my dues as impartial observer. Those unwilling to knock on the front door of my home can expect to be shot for trespassing.

GHO- be willing to see the greater economic impact upon the masses. This isn't innocent and I think you know me a little better than to relegate me to the cartoon pile of xenophobic. No matter which perspective this problem is approached, it's unhealthy/ dysfunctional and must go.
huh? I never assigned you as a xenophobe... I'm confused...
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Old 01-11-2010, 08:31 PM
 
9,368 posts, read 11,365,629 times
Reputation: 1505
Quote:
Originally Posted by harborlady View Post
Both groups do, for their own narrow reasons at expense of larger picture that applies to us all universally. This we can agree.

Zealotry-- they have no need to resort to those tactics when laziness/ ignoring the law suffices. The law is not being enforced by either party of a 2 party dominated system. Would we all be in agreement that immigration policy is dated or needs repair, none have taken meaningful action to bring it up to date. Campaigning Dems giving lip service to illegal immigrants... their feet are doing what about the issue? Perpetuating it. Reps give lip service to citizens... their feet are doing what about the issue? Perpetuating it. These aren't extreme ideologies hanging out on the fringe, this is what we have happening in main stream political parties.

I'm glad you're mad as hell, because you should be. This is a representational system and americans are blatantly not being represented. We're supposed to be a nation of just laws and due process, and the law is not being enforced save for when it's politically convenient. When we're failing to live up to our own definition as a nation, we're failing as a nation regardless of political affinity. Our constitution trumps all, regardless of race, creed, gender, regional affinity, or whatever constitutes a category of american in our one nation.

The category of immigration on CD... if you'll listen to the arguments in every single one of those hate filled threads you'll find people resorting to irrational arguments that embody anti american sentiments all the while claiming themselves to be american. Like teabaggers who throw the kitchen sink in their arguments, salient points are abused in the fray of one upsmanship. America was founded upon an abiding love of freedom, not hatred of others, not homogenized purity of blood lines, not biblical dictation or sanctimonious BS. Read those threads and guard against the flaws of logic, especially the habit of denying any political bent a right to exist in our system. That said, any left, right, or point in between wing wants to challenge me on this issue, bring it on. I've already paid my dues as impartial observer. Those unwilling to knock on the front door of my home can expect to be shot for trespassing.

GHO- be willing to see the greater economic impact upon the masses. This isn't innocent and I think you know me a little better than to relegate me to the cartoon pile of xenophobic. No matter which perspective this problem is approached, it's unhealthy/ dysfunctional and must go.
We are in agreement that they aren't doing their jobs and enforcing the laws, and that the majority of us are not being represented by those who govern us with their own objectives mostly in mind. I disagree with you that anything needs to be "fixed". The current law is just fine... they just need to enforce it. Since they aren't enforcing it, it stands to reason they wouldn't enforce any other laws either. They use the term "fix" to simply guise for more amnesty... rewarding those who have broken the laws in the first place at the enormous expense to the rest of us, and at a grossly unfair advantage over those who have abided by the law, applied, and waited their turns in line.

And, it has nothing to do with "hatred". It has everything to do with national sovereignty and the right of the citizens of this country to have a system of laws that is respected by those who come here. We have every right to determine who we let in the door, and to insure that those who come here serve our purposes as well as their own, and that they don't come here creating a burden for the rest of us in any respect.
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Old 01-11-2010, 09:52 PM
 
4,714 posts, read 11,669,369 times
Reputation: 1049
Two weeks ago a retired farmer near us was asking these same questions.

After listening to him for a few minutes, I asked. "What are you thinking of doing, Jim?"

He replied...I think we should have a big community garden when spring comes.

We were standing at the bed of his pick-up truck and looking at his bottom land...about 8 acres of flat beautiful snow covered grass.

I said, "If you will put in 2 acres of potatoes, I'll chip in $200 for fuel, fertilizer and seed potatoes."

The deal was struck and promises were made to notify the neighbors of the project...voluntary of course.

Now you have me wondering...are the seed potatoes safe to use?

Are they GM, or will we get the old tried and true?
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Old 01-13-2010, 04:30 PM
 
11,961 posts, read 12,365,740 times
Reputation: 2772
Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaHerdOn View Post
huh? I never assigned you as a xenophobe... I'm confused...
Ohh not saying you accused me, just saying many Americans are concerned about illegal economic impact. Your limited participation left me with the impression of shrugging all of this off as non issue/ hysterical ninnies worried about nothing. You don't appear to think it's a problem. Did I misread your input? What do you see as legit problem?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CTMountaineer View Post
We are in agreement that they aren't doing their jobs and enforcing the laws, and that the majority of us are not being represented by those who govern us with their own objectives mostly in mind. I disagree with you that anything needs to be "fixed". The current law is just fine... they just need to enforce it. Since they aren't enforcing it, it stands to reason they wouldn't enforce any other laws either. They use the term "fix" to simply guise for more amnesty... rewarding those who have broken the laws in the first place at the enormous expense to the rest of us, and at a grossly unfair advantage over those who have abided by the law, applied, and waited their turns in line.

And, it has nothing to do with "hatred". It has everything to do with national sovereignty and the right of the citizens of this country to have a system of laws that is respected by those who come here. We have every right to determine who we let in the door, and to insure that those who come here serve our purposes as well as their own, and that they don't come here creating a burden for the rest of us in any respect.
Clarification- My version of fixing; incorporating screening out terror suspects in immigration process. Psychological profiling. Importing Cuban cons hiding out under the blanket of political amnesty-- how'd that work out for you Florida? It also would mean making adjustments to quotas/ visas when lines are too long, ample seating in universities exists, and streamline immigration process so that it rewards honest behavior vs punish. Right now it's far more cost effective to be a scofflaw. Amnesty? I'm thinking not considering how many times it's been evoked. We're teaching-- go ahead, sneak in, americans are too lazy to enforce their own law. They'll cave in eventually because they don't have a backbone. All we've got to do is make law enforcement costly enough so they roll over. This lesson is heard by terrorists, not just mexicans/ south/central americans.

I'm thinking Obama could massively alleviate unemployment rolls, in effect create a million jobs in a week, if the buses to the mexican border started rolling this minute. I also believe LEGAL immigrants should have their say about this issue, because I'll bet you 3 inches of snow illegals disrupt their assimilation process more than anything else.

Additionally, however immigration policy has woven itself into the tapestry of other gov't programs like SSI needs closure. Where I'm from, charity begins at home and if you can't take care of your own you're not in a position to offer charity. We have a responsibility to our seniors, disabled, and children that I don't begrudge, but senior citizens of other nations importing themselves for free retirement and health care here when we're cutting back for our own.... wait one cotton pickin' minute! (Still think the law is fine as is?)

That entitlement doesn't belong on the books, and if they haven't paid a dime into the system, they should be barred from partaking unless extraordinary circumstances are in effect. International precedence; socialized health care countries are writing legislation to prevent others (Americans) from retiring on their system, the one we didn't pay into, then turn around looking for free lunch in twilight years or catastrophic health. I don't blame them, and I hope they wouldn't blame us for doing the same. Fair is fair.
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Old 01-13-2010, 04:57 PM
 
11,961 posts, read 12,365,740 times
Reputation: 2772
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Kennedy View Post
Two weeks ago a retired farmer near us was asking these same questions.

After listening to him for a few minutes, I asked. "What are you thinking of doing, Jim?"

He replied...I think we should have a big community garden when spring comes.

We were standing at the bed of his pick-up truck and looking at his bottom land...about 8 acres of flat beautiful snow covered grass.

I said, "If you will put in 2 acres of potatoes, I'll chip in $200 for fuel, fertilizer and seed potatoes."

The deal was struck and promises were made to notify the neighbors of the project...voluntary of course.

Now you have me wondering...are the seed potatoes safe to use?

Are they GM, or will we get the old tried and true?
Maybe the last hold out preserving heirloom seeds will be amish?

Genetically modified food controversies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Quote:
Michael Taylor has been appointed as a senior adviser to the FDA on food safety and Dennis Wolff is expected to take up the position of Under-Secretary of the newly created Agriculture for Food Safety. Taylor is a former Monsanto lobbyist credited as being responsible for the implementation of "substantial equivalence" in place of food safety studies and for his advocacy that resulted in the Delaney clause that prohibited the inclusion of "any chemical additive found to induce cancer in man.. or animals" in processed foods being amended in 1996 to allow the inclusion of pesticides in GMOs. Wolff is the Pennsylvania Secretary of Agriculture who successfully lobbied to ban organic farmers from labeling their products as being GM free and was a proponent of the "ACRE" initiative which gave the Pennsylvania state attorney generalís office the authority to sue municipalities that banned GMOs.
Once every grain of wheat, tomato, corn, pepper, bean etc is patented with brand orientated genetic markers, who will be legally permitted to have a garden? Family farms going extinct, heirloom seed companies being bought out by conglomerates, the trends are disturbing. Bound and gagged by laws written to hold masses hostage... where does this road go? Progressives & greenies deserve our support on this subject. Honest labeling isn't so outrageous an expectation. You shouldn't have to guess what you're planting.
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Old 01-13-2010, 05:38 PM
 
Location: Elkins, WV
1,981 posts, read 5,200,335 times
Reputation: 807
Quote:
Originally Posted by harborlady View Post
Ohh not saying you accused me, just saying many Americans are concerned about illegal economic impact. Your limited participation left me with the impression of shrugging all of this off as non issue/ hysterical ninnies worried about nothing. You don't appear to think it's a problem. Did I misread your input? What do you see as legit problem?
Ohhh, yeah that is pretty much my opinion. I don't view it as much of a problem, especially in West Virginia. Look around.... ALL WHITE PEOPLE.... This hysteria over immigrants just creates a playground for racism and situations of unethical and unequal treatment. I think as a country we definitely have bigger problems that we should be dealing with. Also, we should be thankful for those immigrants.

I'm not sure how many of you know about the fertility replacement rate of 2.1 babies per woman. But comparatively the United States would be just as screwed at most of Europe and Japan whose rates are below 2.1. That means that there are fewer children to care for the elderly or take the jobs left vacant from retirees, and pay income taxes to run government services in the ever graying nations. Non-Hispanic white women are having the fewest babies, under the 2.1 replacement rate. If it wasn't for the (comparatively) high fertility rates of Hispanic women... the United States population would be "graying" at a much faster rate, and would within time start shrinking and be faced with an economic catastrophe. So yeah, not saying we should just open the gate and slap a "proud to be American" bumper sticker on their @ss but immigrants do have a positive effect on this country, while..... wars, lack of healthcare, personal rights, and environmental degradation do not.
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