Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
As to why places don't get licensed - I'm sure it's a hassle with some fees associated (for example, my provider is trying to move to a new location - and it has taken the state months to get her the final approval). The daycare provider can also probably avoid declaring some or all of his/her earnings by being unlicensed. I would imagine there are some places that are ok - when I was thinking about Scarsdale, my sister referred me to a former school teacher who runs an unlicensed daycare. She's incredibly well-regarded in her neighborhood.
That said, I'm with jjinla on this - I probably wouldn't consider an unlicensed provider. Licensing doesn't ensure a quality caregiver, for sure - you're going to have to assess that on your own. But it does ensure a minimum safety standard. For example, immunization status: I sure as heck don't want my child going to a place where some parent has decided that they aren't immunizing their kids for whatever reason.
Back to the OP, I use an in-home family day care provider and I love it. I was referred by another mom I know who has used them for both of their children. I like that it's just a small group of kids, mostly under 3, and the two providers are extremely loving to them all. I will likely change to more of a pre-school/daycare closer to 3. But for now, this works well for us.
Obviously the real issue is how good the place is, not if they are licensed. You can be licensed and still be horrible. Best bet is to get a referral from someone you trust. If not then, you'll want a referral from the state (license). How much do you trust this state?
It has nothing to do with throwing your trust into the state. To me it is no different than hiring an illegal alien, which they did all of the time back in CA. Would you let your nanny drive without a driver's license with your kids in the car? Hire an unlicensed conractor? It is possible to find a person both licensed AND good. I may be the best driver in the world, but if I don't get a license, I can't drive. Period.
I mean, in essence we are talking about leaving kids as young as 6 weeks old alone with strangers that have at minumum shown that they have no regard for those pesky state laws. The only reason not to be licensed is if you are hiding something - insurance, ratios, safety standards, etc. This may not apply to the OP, but certainly for the great majority of unlicensed daycares it does - especially in low-income areas. I take no chances with my kids, and the overwhelming majority of people in Westchester can afford not to.
Obviously the real issue is how good the place is, not if they are licensed. You can be licensed and still be horrible. Best bet is to get a referral from someone you trust. If not then, you'll want a referral from the state (license). How much do you trust this state?
That's like saying why not simply go with a contractor, electrician, plumber, etc. who isn't bonded and licensed. To me that's a minimum requirement to my even having a conversation with them. Otherwise I have no recourse if something goes wrong. Or going to a health care provider who isn't licensed. Or a health care facility that works under the table. Their being licensed doesn't mean they are actually very good at what they do - but it does mean that the licensee follows a minimum safety standard.
I don't view a state license as being a referral - but it is one of my requirements for my giving them the business (and trusting them to care for my child).
It has nothing to do with throwing your trust into the state. To me it is no different than hiring an illegal alien, which they did all of the time back in CA. Would you let your nanny drive without a driver's license with your kids in the car? Hire an unlicensed conractor? It is possible to find a person both licensed AND good. I may be the best driver in the world, but if I don't get a license, I can't drive. Period.
I mean, in essence we are talking about leaving kids as young as 6 weeks old alone with strangers that have at minumum shown that they have no regard for those pesky state laws. The only reason not to be licensed is if you are hiding something - insurance, ratios, safety standards, etc. This may not apply to the OP, but certainly for the great majority of unlicensed daycares it does - especially in low-income areas. I take no chances with my kids, and the overwhelming majority of people in Westchester can afford not to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ehmom
That's like saying why not simply go with a contractor, electrician, plumber, etc. who isn't bonded and licensed. To me that's a minimum requirement to my even having a conversation with them. Otherwise I have no recourse if something goes wrong. Or going to a health care provider who isn't licensed. Or a health care facility that works under the table. Their being licensed doesn't mean they are actually very good at what they do - but it does mean that the licensee follows a minimum safety standard.
I don't view a state license as being a referral - but it is one of my requirements for my giving them the business (and trusting them to care for my child).
What did people do before the state start licensing?
I'm not telling you to take chances with your kids. Quite the opposite, I am telling you that state license means nothing. I'll use your own examples to prove my point. How many accidents occur from licensed drivers? So no, I am not going to let someone drive my kids just because they are licensed. How many contractors do crap work? So no, I'm not going with a contractor just because they are licensed.
The only reason not to be licensed is if you are hiding something
Well, this is a pretty simplistic way of looking at it, and false. I know my provider isn't hiding anything, she just wants to avoid the hassle of getting licensed, and her business is doing great, so obviously there are parents out there who are ok with it.
Again, to each their own - we all, as parents, make the best decisions we can for our kids, and we're all not going to make the same decisions.
"Answer me this question. If your mother could take care of your kids but has no license, does that mean you don't trust her to do it?"
My mother watching my kids does not require a license. Operating a daycare, VERY clearly does. If my mom didn't have a drivers' license, though, no I wouldn't let her drive my kids.
This is really becoming the most nonsensical argument. Does anyone truly believe that all things being equal, using an unlicensed daycare provider is really the safer bet??
Nobody insinuated that just having a license means that they are good, but if someone isn't honest enough to be properly licensed within their profession, they lack the integrity I require to care for my children.
"I know my provider isn't hiding anything, she just wants to avoid the hassle of getting licensed"
Well, this might sound a little obvious, but if she is hiding something, isn't it sort of the point for you NOT to know about it?
But still, if you found a diamond in the rough, great. But nobody should be encouraging others to seek out these arrangements for their kids. They can go to jail, get fined, and be banned from operating forever if they get caught. Licensing isn't that much of a hassle with that much at stake IMO.
I use a group family home-based daycare, although I am in the process of looking for a new daycare, preferably a daycare center.
It's hard, b/c my daughter, who's almost 18 months old, *loves* her daycare. Absolutely loves it. She comes home at night singing the "Clean up" song from daycare (which is incredibly helpful when it's actually time to clean up at night!) and she has lots of little buddies there.
Her daycare would probably be considered one of the better family daycares; it's run more like a daycare center or a preschool; there's no TV at all where the children are, and they do things like crafts, circle time, etc. There's a lawn and a jungle gym outside where the kids all play when it's nice out.
If you're interested in why I'm making the switch, PM me and I'll be happy to let you know.
Oh, and as for the question about why a licensed daycare. Part of the reason to seek out a licensed daycare is that such daycares are subject to the state restrictions on ratios (i.e 1 to 3 for infants (under 2), 1 to 4 for toddlers, etc.). The point of the ratios is to make sure that there is an adequate amount of supervision; something incredibly important when you've got a bunch of kiddos running around. Additionally, the state limits the number of children that can be cared for, depending on the facility type; again, a safety issue. Finally, the state can check for compliance to minimum standards of safety, both in terms of the physical space and in terms of procedure.
If a daycare is believed to have been in violation of any of the standards, a report can be made and the state can check on the daycare and issue appropriate sanctions. Again, it's all about the SAFETY of the kids in someone else's care--especially those kids who are too little to be able to explain to their parents what happens at daycare.
So, personally, I would only send my child to a licensed daycare. Does this mean they are perfect? No, of course not. But it does mean that there is some minimum standard in place to which they must comply.
Read all this with interest, as I have my own story to tell. I worked at a "preschool", which was really daycare but they charged an exorbitant amount of money. No babies, ages 1-5. It was based in a nice neighborhood, located in one of the more expensive towns in lower Westchester.
It is licensed, has been in business for years and was a pigsty when I was there. Probably still is. The toys were old and filthy. The rooms were old and filthy. The cots were not cleaned and were used by a different child every day. The same child is supposed to use the same cot all the time (should have a name on each). The play areas outside had old unsafe equipment, and some things were not in use anymore because they were so unstable. I watched a child fly through the air when the chain on a swing broke. Parents weren't told. I saw another fall on her head, parents were not notified. The employees weren't allowed to tell a parent anything (we were discouraged from anything other than saying hello.) Some employees were downright mean to the kids (especially the shyer ones). The state came in and conducted a long overdue investigation and there were so many violations the owner weighed shutting down as opposed to fixing all the hazards, some of which were frightening.
The food served was the low end of the chain. The cheese sandwiches were made from .99 cent packages and the kids were served watered down powdered fruit juice or watered down milk, 2 ounces each. Two chicken nuggets per child. No exceptions. I could go on, but you get the general idea.
While I was there 3 children with serious behavior issues attended and there were a lot of episodes of violent behavior. Nothing was done. A woman assigned by the county to work with one of the kids who needed a lot of therapy fudged so much paperwork there was almost a lawsuit by the parents of the child.
They filled out forms for all the workers stating they attended classes (cpr, childhood education, etc) and I never attended a class. NOBODY was trained in cpr.
I left as soon as I could find another job. This place is still open. A license means nothing if the people running a daycare aren't acting responsibly and the people watching over them aren't enforcing the codes necessary for the kids' safety.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
