U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > Westchester County
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-24-2018, 10:18 AM
 
10 posts, read 9,247 times
Reputation: 22

Advertisements

Your monthly budget accounted for $3K in child care costs.


However, in your recent posts, you are speaking to your experience thus far with the teaching at the elementary level in the WP school district. This leads me to presume at least one of your children is in public school while you have one or more still being cared for by a nanny, at daycare, or otherwise.


Like I and others have mentioned previously, this $3K of monthly child card costs will soon be gone.

At that time, whether its in a year or few years from now, you will be in a position to devote $7,500/month towards housing costs (mortgage, taxes and insurance) as you currently account for $4,500 in housing costs. By quick, rough calculation in my head, this number seemingly supports a nice house ($1M+) in a fancy school district even if it costs you $30K in taxes.


All the while, the ~$8,500 you currently devote towards monthly savings/investments (without even taking into account the fact that you and your partner are maxing out your 401Ks) stays intact.


So, again and will all due respect, I just don't see how you're not able to live comfortably with that HHI.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-24-2018, 11:04 AM
 
930 posts, read 277,403 times
Reputation: 2019
Quote:
Originally Posted by streetsmart View Post
Are you not able to get your kids violin and mandarin lessons at home on your own dime? With all that savings? What are other school districts offering that WP is not?

Personally, I think a lot of things are important at the elementary level, but extra-curriculars are not up at the top of the list. When you get to middle and high school they become much more important. IMHO.
^^^ This ^^^

I drove my kids to violin, piano, art and riding lessons. My daughter's ballet lessons were on Saturday morning. My son's Little League were Saturday afternoons.

When my kids were in high school, they settled on one activity each.

What your really need is a reliable driver to shuttle your kids around.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-24-2018, 11:42 AM
 
124 posts, read 55,038 times
Reputation: 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlamb93 View Post
This is currently true, however I have trouble believing this in the long-term. The cost of living - especially education and childcare - has far outpaced real wage growth. Many young professionals (people who will be buying these homes in 5-7 years) also have student debt. At some point, these costs become too large a percentage of annual earnings.
I think, you’re wrong. The population of Scarsdale, for example, is only around 18K people or 5K households. The median household income in Scarsdale is something around $250K. What this means is that only 2.5K of households in Scarsdale make more than $250K in HHI. It is safe to assume that the existing price levels are supported by this 1/2 of the households. Now, the NY metro area has some 3.5 million households and the Scarsdale's 2.5K households represent less than 0.1% of the NY metro total. In other words, there will always be that top 0.1% percent who will be able to afford to live in Scarsdale.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-24-2018, 12:00 PM
 
Location: Holmes, NY
102 posts, read 51,202 times
Reputation: 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chint View Post
"Unsustainable" is a subjective opinion. In fact it has been sustainable - and continues to be so. And house prices are not dropping. As much as we'd all like it to be cheaper, it apparently is not unsustainable at all.

Well, obviously for anybody who makes enough income to sustain the expenses, it is sustainable. Owning an island and flying to/from it on a private helicopter 2x a week is sustainable for a person who makes billions.



The overall cost of living - most certainly including (but not limited to) housing costs and property taxes has gone up much further in the last few decades than wages have, and this isn't a problem unique to Westchester or the NYC metro area. But, it is much more apparent here.


So is it sustainable? Yes, to the wealthy. But you can't deny that the area shuts out a huge contingent of working people due to the high CoL, and over time the group of people who can ACTUALLY afford it (ie not spending every last penny to rent a single-room craphole over a storefront somewhere, not being duped into taking out a mortgage they can't afford and constantly trying to battle foreclosure) grows smaller and smaller...and at the same time, the area that they're shut out of grows larger and larger. Areas in Northern Westchester that used to be blue-collar/working class have become out-of-reach for the newest generation of workers. Even Putnam is seeing absurd property tax hikes.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-24-2018, 12:06 PM
 
40 posts, read 36,490 times
Reputation: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by YorktownGal View Post
^^^ This ^^^

I drove my kids to violin, piano, art and riding lessons. My daughter's ballet lessons were on Saturday morning. My son's Little League were Saturday afternoons.

When my kids were in high school, they settled on one activity each.

What your really need is a reliable driver to shuttle your kids around.

This is all totally fair, no doubt. But when you have two working parents, there's a clear appeal to a district where extensive options are built in, as opposed to having to manage the constant grind of looking for classes, signing up, figuring out how to get there, etc. Convenience is worth a lot. Ask everyone who pays a premium to live in Larchmont or Pelham and shave 15 or 20 minutes off their commute. How much is it worth? Not sure.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-24-2018, 02:21 PM
 
1,183 posts, read 336,595 times
Reputation: 3186
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashowofhands View Post
Well, obviously for anybody who makes enough income to sustain the expenses, it is sustainable. Owning an island and flying to/from it on a private helicopter 2x a week is sustainable for a person who makes billions.



The overall cost of living - most certainly including (but not limited to) housing costs and property taxes has gone up much further in the last few decades than wages have, and this isn't a problem unique to Westchester or the NYC metro area. But, it is much more apparent here.


So is it sustainable? Yes, to the wealthy. But you can't deny that the area shuts out a huge contingent of working people due to the high CoL, and over time the group of people who can ACTUALLY afford it (ie not spending every last penny to rent a single-room craphole over a storefront somewhere, not being duped into taking out a mortgage they can't afford and constantly trying to battle foreclosure) grows smaller and smaller...and at the same time, the area that they're shut out of grows larger and larger. Areas in Northern Westchester that used to be blue-collar/working class have become out-of-reach for the newest generation of workers. Even Putnam is seeing absurd property tax hikes.


None of that makes it not sustainable. Do you see homes that can't be sold? Westchester towns that are going bankrupt?


Its plenty sustainable, as proven in fact.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-24-2018, 02:32 PM
 
72 posts, read 68,986 times
Reputation: 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chint View Post
None of that makes it not sustainable. Do you see homes that can't be sold? Westchester towns that are going bankrupt?


Its plenty sustainable, as proven in fact.
It does becomes uneconomical at a certain level. The point is that these costs are consuming a higher percentage of earnings (on a real, inflation-adjusted basis). If the cost of mortgage+taxes+education+childcare was 100% of your income, you would live elsewhere. Who knows what that level is - nonetheless, it exists. People decide on the margin.

Also important to keep in mind that a portion of the run-up in prices has been driven by cheap finaning. The Fed has all but committed to near-term increases. It will be interesting to see how prices move in the coming 1-2 years. All things equal, taxes and interest have an inverse effect to market value.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-24-2018, 05:31 PM
 
Location: Toronto
815 posts, read 1,980,849 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by demographer View Post
This is all totally fair, no doubt. But when you have two working parents, there's a clear appeal to a district where extensive options are built in, as opposed to having to manage the constant grind of looking for classes, signing up, figuring out how to get there, etc. Convenience is worth a lot. Ask everyone who pays a premium to live in Larchmont or Pelham and shave 15 or 20 minutes off their commute. How much is it worth? Not sure.
So pay up...?

The way I see it, you have to make a choice - either you want to continue saving at the rate you currently are and you accept the school district for what it is and supplement with weekend activities, or you suck it up and pay up for the district you really want. It sounds like you want to be in a better district but don't want to pay the premium. Join the club! You can have the "why is it so unaffordable?" debate until the cows come home, but it's reality.

You are currently saving a ton of money by most standards, so are you willing to sacrifice some of that for the district you want, or not?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-25-2018, 08:15 AM
 
Location: Westchester County, NY
193 posts, read 181,305 times
Reputation: 189
I'm just going to add that there is a distinct difference between income and wealth, and that affects sustainability. Because one is widely tracked and understood while another is not, it is really difficult to evaluate. Take, for example, a neighbor of mine who does not meaningfully work anymore, but has ~$10 million in investable assets. He lives on approximately a 2.5% before-tax yield, which equates to $250k. Compare that to another neighbor who has a job and makes about $350k pre-tax; he, however, has very little in investable assets, and what little wealth he had became the down payment for his house. Now take two towns, one mostly filled with people like neighbor #1 and another mostly filled with people like neighbor #2. They will look for most purposes very similar in terms of income metrics, which is what most demographic surveys show. But they will be VERY different in terms of sustainability.

In the aftermath of the 2008 credit crisis in California (where I lived at the time) it became very obvious which towns were populated by neighbor #1s. Those towns weathered the downturn and home prices eventually rose rapidly after a period of stagnation. The other towns have only recently recovered, and they have not greatly surpassed their pre-credit crisis valuations.

Since data is so hard to come by, people kind of have to go by word of mouth. If a town (or region) is high income+high wealth, then valuations and current lifestyles are sustainable. It will be painful for those towns (or regions) that are not.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-25-2018, 08:25 AM
 
40 posts, read 36,490 times
Reputation: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by KensingtonPark View Post
I'm just going to add that there is a distinct difference between income and wealth, and that affects sustainability. Because one is widely tracked and understood while another is not, it is really difficult to evaluate. Take, for example, a neighbor of mine who does not meaningfully work anymore, but has ~$10 million in investable assets. He lives on approximately a 2.5% before-tax yield, which equates to $250k. Compare that to another neighbor who has a job and makes about $350k pre-tax; he, however, has very little in investable assets, and what little wealth he had became the down payment for his house. Now take two towns, one mostly filled with people like neighbor #1 and another mostly filled with people like neighbor #2. They will look for most purposes very similar in terms of income metrics, which is what most demographic surveys show. But they will be VERY different in terms of sustainability.

In the aftermath of the 2008 credit crisis in California (where I lived at the time) it became very obvious which towns were populated by neighbor #1s. Those towns weathered the downturn and home prices eventually rose rapidly after a period of stagnation. The other towns have only recently recovered, and they have not greatly surpassed their pre-credit crisis valuations.

Since data is so hard to come by, people kind of have to go by word of mouth. If a town (or region) is high income+high wealth, then valuations and current lifestyles are sustainable. It will be painful for those towns (or regions) that are not.

Exactly. My suspicion has always been that Westchester County has an outsized proportion of people like your neighbor. There are far too many people living in homes and sustaining lifestyles that are just impossible based on the day jobs they hold.

It continues to support the sky-high real estate valuations, no doubt. But it also continues to make life harder for the rest of us working stiffs by driving up the price of pretty much everything.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:



Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > Westchester County
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:40 PM.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top