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There are a lot of houses in Queens that cost under 1 million with plenty of spaces. That's why the housing prices in Queens is on fire, while houses in NJ, westchester is performing so poorly. basically, you don't see value in those burbs
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlamb93
The principal portion of your mortgage can be viewed as long-term savings. So your "rent" in the suburbs is the interest on your mortgage plus the property tax. The interest is also a tax shield.
Rent is a 100% an expense. And you also owe city tax.
What it comes down to is that people with multiple kids need space. You don't get space in the city for a reasonable $/sq foot.
You’re comparing Scarsdale, assuming a 3.6% tax rate (its 2.4%), one of the wealthiest towns in the country to a crap 2 bedroom apartment at 4K a month
Realistic analysis for someone cross shopping the two
Mortgage - 3500-4000 (likely putting 30%+ down pmt)
Taxes - 2000
Maintenance - 1000
Dual commuters - 600
Total 7100-7600
Rent - 5000-6000
NYC Tax on 500k dual income - 1500
Total 6500-7500
the quality of the two is just not comparable. for 6000 rent in the city, you are looking at a high end two bedroom condo, the property can easily be worth 2 million. for 4000 mortgage in Scalesdale, the property is worth less than 1 million. totally different comparison.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaRuss01
You’re comparing Scarsdale, assuming a 3.6% tax rate (its 2.4%), one of the wealthiest towns in the country to a crap 2 bedroom apartment at 4K a month
Realistic analysis for someone cross shopping the two
Mortgage - 3500-4000 (likely putting 30%+ down pmt)
Taxes - 2000
Maintenance - 1000
Dual commuters - 600
Total 7100-7600
Rent - 5000-6000
NYC Tax on 500k dual income - 1500
Total 6500-7500
You can easily find a non-luxury 2 bedroom in Manhattan under 4000. In outerboros, you can rent a two bed for 2500 in a nice neighborhood. Even you factor into city tax, it still costs much less in the city.cost aside, the suburban lifestyle is simply out of fashion. that is why you see the price in suburbs is moving downwards, while the price in the city keeps climbing
There are a lot of houses in Queens that cost under 1 million with plenty of spaces. That's why the housing prices in Queens is on fire, while houses in NJ, westchester is performing so poorly. basically, you don't see value in those burbs
In Queens, you still pay NYC City tax on your income.
You’re comparing Scarsdale, assuming a 3.6% tax rate (its 2.4%), one of the wealthiest towns in the country to a crap 2 bedroom apartment at 4K a month
Realistic analysis for someone cross shopping the two
Mortgage - 3500-4000 (likely putting 30%+ down pmt)
Taxes - 2000
Maintenance - 1000
Dual commuters - 600
Total 7100-7600
Rent - 5000-6000
NYC Tax on 500k dual income - 1500
Total 6500-7500
just cannot figure how you math works. a one million dollar house in Scaresdale would easily cost you 4000 in mortgage, 3000 in tax, and you need to factor into additional maintenance cost and cost of commuting, that is like another 1000 per month. So your cost is 8000 per month. average 2 bed apartments in the city cost only 4000
JaRuss did a pretty good job running the numbers but you are clearly not comparing apples to apples. I lived in a 2 bed apartment in the city for a little under $4,000 before buying my house. The apartment was small, had no storage, in a Harlem neighborhood where I would never want to raise my child. That is hardly comparable to buying in a nice Westchester town. Here is roughly how our math worked out:
Mortgage after tax shield: ~$3,600
Taxes: ~$2,200
Maintenance: ~$1,000
Increased commute cost: $300
Total: $7,100
Total not include principal repayment: $5,700
It is hard to say what is a comparable NYC apartment to a house with 2 acres of land but apartments we looked at that had enough space for a family (ie not a tiny 2 bedroom with no storage) and in a neighborhood in which we would actually want to raise children were $6,000-$8,000/month at best. Plus NYC income tax of close to $1,000/month. And yes if you are lucky the NYC public schools G&T program is good but it is not a guarantee and it is only for certain grades. Maybe I would have gotten lucky and been able to send my children to public school but that was a big maybe, now I know exactly what school my children will attend. That's why I say the math makes sense even with the new tax laws for me.
Others expenses I have incurred....here’s a anecdotal comparison
Suburbs - My central air is old Freon based. I need to upgrade the system, it’s 8,000. That’s just for one of two zones. Let’s say on paper utilities are 150/mo in the city versus 300/mo in the suburbs that was factored into cost of living, I just depleted 4.5 years worth of utility bills in the city on this repair
NYC - My HVAC pipe has a leak. Landlord fixes it
NYC - My monthly parking went up from 400 to 450. Oh no, let’s move to the Burbs for free parking.
Suburbs - My 100 year old driveway was too narrow and crumbling. 10,000 to rip it up and add Belgium block pavers and asphalt. My 100 year old garage needed a new slab, roof and doors. The town wants solid wood doors. Total estimates for garage repair is 15,000. Total parking related fix at 25,000 = 5 yrs of monthly parking in NYC
You get the idea. Granted some of these improvements add value. But the point is that when you go through your analysis of monthly bills and costs of NYC vs Suburbs some big ticket repairs in suburbia quickly change the reality of the situation
There are a lot of houses in Queens that cost under 1 million with plenty of spaces. That's why the housing prices in Queens is on fire, while houses in NJ, westchester is performing so poorly. basically, you don't see value in those burbs
This is an interesting observation. I've lived in Queens for 25+ years and have never met anyone who had moved to Queens from Westchester. On the other hand, I've met many ppl. who have escaped to Westchester from Brooklyn/Manhattan/Queens. Smart, successful people.
Of course you will see a lot of people move to burbs when they need to raise their children. but you forgot to mention the old people who will move to florida from burbs once they retire. and forget to mention the new immigrants, many of whom are very well off, who desire to buy property in Queens
so the net result is population in Queens keep booming, while population in burbs stagnate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ironlex
This is an interesting observation. I've lived in Queens for 25+ years and have never met anyone who had moved to Queens from Westchester. On the other hand, I've met many ppl. who have escaped to Westchester from Brooklyn/Manhattan/Queens. Smart, successful people.
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