Humanly possible for a mid 20s couple to afford to buy? (Hartsdale: coop, safe area)

[bmwguydc]

Originally Posted by wolfgang1

How is that Garth Road area in Scarsdale? A lot of coops for sale but honestly nothing that really jumps out at me. Looks like a lot of the buildings are pretty old.

As far as further north, the closer to the city / a train station the better. But as long as there are express trains running that can get me there in around 45 minutes, it's worth looking into.

Garth Road is a decent area, but it's the Town of Eastchester, despite the Scarsdale address. Eastchester is fine, however, it's schools are a notch below that of Scarsdale, which is not an issue for your situation. The buildings are older, yes, and many are in decent condition. I can understand the sentiment that nothing is that dramatically different from Yonkers or other places where you can find a similar co-op for less money.

Katonah trains can get to Grand Central in about an hour. The benefit of looking into the Katonah-Ridgefield-Bedford Hills areas is that you are more likely to find a condominium as opposed to a co-op. It's easier to rent a condo, should you decide to keep it as an investment property when your family situation changes, and/or they are easier to purchase since you do not have an interview process and have to be approved by a board.

What's nice about going a little north, despite the added commute time, is that you have real towns that are surrounded by large estates, open spaces, reservoirs, etc. It's an uncluttered and sophisticated country setting in this area of the region. Danbury is really going north and would likely double your preferred commute time frame to the city, especially with taking the HART bus to/from the station at Brewster. But in Danbury, you could likely find a townhouse to purchase as opposed to an apartment. The commute could grate on one's nerves over time, however, but there are people who live within the city limits who commute for an hour and a half to Midtown, so it's really not bad when viewed in that perspective.

Katonah does not have much in the way of townhouses or condominiums and the houses are going to be more expensive, hence the recommendation of looking to nearby Connecticut areas. Ridgefield, however, is on par with Katonah-Bedford in all respects, and is a nice sophisticated country small town.

There are some buildings in Hartsdale-Scarsdale along the Central Avenue corridor that should be within your price range, but there you have a lack of a defined town center, just strip malls along Central Avenue, with the nearest downtown being in Scarsdale. Tuckahoe properties should also be within range, but they are likely to be co-ops as well, and they are generally older and may not have as many distinctive features of more modern units.

For the same money, with a longer commute to Fairfield County via Katonah, you could likely find a larger unit, with full modern amenities, parking, and landscaped grounds for the same price as Lower Westchester in a community that is equally prestigious (if not more so than some in Lower Westchester). And, these are not huge apartment structures, they are more lower rise, clustered developments.

You could potentially find a co-op in Pelham in range as well, but it will likely be an older one bedroom unit. Some of these, however, are within walking distance to MetroNorth. Larchmont has a few co-ops that might also be within range, some of which are distinctive Tudor style buildings. Larchmont has a great town center, and the train is 30 minutes to Grand Central, and it's a good area.

I hope that gives some perspective as to what's around. You can be close to the city and in a good area with a 2BR under $300k, but in Lower Westchester it will be a co-op as opposed to a condo in Northern Westchester/Fairfield. And, if you only need a 1BR, you can usually find those for less money in some buildings in the same area, but 2BRs are generally easier to sell and/or rent should you convert a condo to an investment property (co-ops have all kinds of regulations about this and it's not always permitted). Some areas are not as distinctive, that's true, and the large numbers of competing co-ops on the market with their restrictive covenants can give pause, especially considering what else is in the market, if you can tolerate the distance.

I'm happy to give any perspective on the areas and will post any others that might be a good fit for what you're seeking. It's a challenge to find the right place, that's for sure, and sometimes it's not the house, but the neighborhood that lets you know that you're home. It's a process, and can be frustrating at times, that's for sure, but in the end, it will be worth it.

[SLP247]

Originally Posted by wolfgang1

Why are we still here?

There is No Place in the world like New York! That is not to say there are not some great places to live that cost much less. Sure there are. But no where else will you find the income you can make here, combined with the Heart Beat of NYC and the Beauty of the Hudson Valley area. For Long Islanders, its the Ocean and NJ, the Farms.

I have done a lot of touring of this great country and it is always great to come back home.

Originally Posted by wolfgang1

Let's come back to this thread in a year and see where the market stands. I think Westchester will see a 35% dip from its peak by 2010.

I doubt very much that you will see a $750k home depreciate to $ 487,500 by or at any time between now and 2010. It has never happened and never will. Not here in this part of the country.

Sure prices were climbing $20k-$60k per year, but it still took a long time for it to hit these numbers. I am already seeing a number of people picking up and moving South (Southern Westchester that is) because of the great deals out there today. The only reason most people are living in Northern Westchester and Putnam is that they can not afford Mid to Southern Westchester. Everyone that I know, that is currently equity positive in their homes would sell in a minute for a chance to grad up a bargain down there.

If you can't bring yourself to buying a home that in 2002 sold for $150k, keep in mind that you can not build the same quality and size home today for $150k that you could in 2002. It is all relative.

Take a look at your profession. What was it paying out in 2002 compared to today?

[bmwguydc]

Originally Posted by SLP247

I am already seeing a number of people picking up and moving South (Southern Westchester that is) because of the great deals out there today. The only reason most people are living in Northern Westchester and Putnam is that they can not afford Mid to Southern Westchester. Everyone that I know, that is currently equity positive in their homes would sell in a minute for a chance to grad up a bargain down there.

That depends upon the person and their lifestyle, since it's too much of a generalization to say that most people in Northern Westchester cannot afford Lower Westchester and want out at the first chance. That's not true in many communities, such as Katonah, Bedford, Waccabuc, Pound Ridge, and South Salem. Prices in many Northern Westchester areas are not that drastically different from Lower Westchester, such that many who can afford many areas in Northern Westchester (particularly Northeastern Westchester) could afford Bronxville, Scarsdale, or Pelham of that's where they wanted to live.

If you are speaking of less expensive areas of Northern Westchester, that I could see, since many of those purchases are price-driven, but it's certainly not all of Northern Westchester (or even most of Northern Westchester) that's looking to relocate to Lower Westchester.

[SLP247]

Originally Posted by bmwguydc

That depends upon the person and their lifestyle, since it's too much of a generalization to say that most people in Northern Westchester cannot afford Lower Westchester and want out at the first chance. That's not true in many communities, such as Katonah, Bedford, Waccabuc, Pound Ridge, and South Salem. Prices in many Northern Westchester areas are not that drastically different from Lower Westchester, such that many who can afford many areas in Northern Westchester (particularly Northeastern Westchester) could afford Bronxville, Scarsdale, or Pelham of that's where they wanted to live.

If you are speaking of less expensive areas of Northern Westchester, that I could see, since many of those purchases are price-driven, but it's certainly not all of Northern Westchester (or even most of Northern Westchester) that's looking to relocate to Lower Westchester.

Yes, you are correct. I did generalize a bit too much and was speaking specifically of the typical home purchase under $600k

[bmwguydc]

Originally Posted by SLP247

Yes, you are correct. I did generalize a bit too much and was speaking specifically of the typical home purchase under $600k

No problem at all. I just wanted to be sure that anyone to whom I may have recommended some of these communities would understand that it's not filled with people who could not afford Lower Westchester and wanted out at the first chance.

[dma1250]

Originally Posted by bmwguydc

No problem at all. I just wanted to be sure that anyone to whom I may have recommended some of these communities would understand that it's not filled with people who could not afford Lower Westchester and wanted out at the first chance.

I don't know anyone who has moved to my part of Northern Westchester (southern Yorktown) who really wanted to be in the southern part. I for one rejected many lovely homes in popular southern towns before buying here. People move here for the beauty, the privacy, the houses, the great towns and schools, and the bounty of nature preserves, hiking, biking, and other outdoor activities. The area offers a rare balance where you can take a long hike in the woods in the morning, hang out at local coffee house and hear live music in the afternoon, then go out to a great Thai restaurant and see an indie film in the evening. It's the best of all worlds. It appeals to those who don't want to be in the city or the suburbs but who do want to be close to amenities and the city.

[SLP247]

I guess my poorly placed point was that if homes in lower Westchester ever started to sell for 70% of their current value. Many people would be jumping on them. Maybe not once they settled in Northern Westchester and discovered all the great things here, but since a large number of my clients are trying to be as close to NYC as possible while still being able to afford a home, I am sure they would choose Mamaroneck, Scarsdale, Larchmont over Yorktown if the homes down there were averaging $525k and not $750k

[batjka]

Bono,
I feel exactly the same as you do. I make a decent living but with explosion of the real estate market in the recent years a dream of owning a house seems elusive. There's nothing that would justify doubling the house prices over the course of 3 years. A combination of crooked appraisers, greedy homeowners, irresponsible buyers, agents, attorneys etc all made it pretty much impossible to buy a house for a young couple. And while we can't afford to even buy a house in a decent area we are still considered the "class enemies" of Obama and such. More taxes, here we come.


I am thinking of buying a house in Pelham. Anyone has any pointers?

[dma1250]

Originally Posted by SLP247

I guess my poorly placed point was that if homes in lower Westchester ever started to sell for 70% of their current value. Many people would be jumping on them. Maybe not once they settled in Northern Westchester and discovered all the great things here, but since a large number of my clients are trying to be as close to NYC as possible while still being able to afford a home, I am sure they would choose Mamaroneck, Scarsdale, Larchmont over Yorktown if the homes down there were averaging $525k and not $750k

I'm sure that that is true for plenty of people, but again it is definitely not true for many. Northern Westchester offers a lifestyle that is not available in Mamaroneck, Scarsdale, or Larchmont--three town that I personally would never even consider living in. Obviously, prices are higher in those places because more people want to live there. But for many people those towns are the 'soulless suburbs' and are to be avoided. As I said, I know lots of people who moved up here in recent years and none of them considered southern Westchester. Different strokes for different folks. (PS, the express MetroNorth to Mamoreneck is 8 minutes faster than the train to Croton-Harmon, a relatively minimal difference.)

[cmm323]

If you want a roof over your heads without going into bankruptcy, there are so many options, especially in this market. This has nothing to do with age, you have a job. good for you.

What happened to make prices go up? economy-breaking low fed rates which means if you bought it at i.o. on an arm (low monthly cost/income) you could buy a lot more house, even if wasn't "worth" it - but you wanted it! (demand) and now you can afford it! (prestige) so in the end it is worth it, and "affordable."

What is a house worth? in my book the amount it would cost to build it new, so that's about $200-$300/Sf. (1000 SF = $300,000.) plus some extra for land and location where [someone who has kids would be] saving money on private school - like in Westchester where those pesky old people have been paying a ton of taxes, and also getting involved in the schools, for many years so that you can come along and decide it's a nice safe place to live (paying their dues?).

owning a home is still highly rewarded by our system (in tax incentives = we take care of all this land so they don't have to...baby incentives = new tax payers, etc) which you have the opportunity to benefit from, and if you want to feel better, see what the options are internationally...
Unfortunately the fed has done this by keeping the false (economy-breaking) low interest rates, which has required printing money to pay for everything else, which has left no value in the money...Your nostalgic $200,000. starter house will be $2,000,000. in "new dollars" a couple of years, just from inflation, so don't worry. Just add an extra zero every few years to keep up with relative nostalgia.

Ownership has it's costs as mentioned above - snow, mechanical failures, insurance, liability, etc. It is way more time consuming than anyone realizes it when they see the perfect house from the street. Definitely do yourself a favor and have someone else take care of this like a landlord or HOA if you're risk averse. the pipes will freeze in February, especially if you tried to get one more year out of something that would have only cost $100. to replace earlier...

Do the math recommended above to figure out your payment, then work backwards into the house (or go online on places like realtor-dot-com, where I just did a search in westchester between $200-$300k and found some pretty nice places, but some requiring some imagination and a couple of days of dumpsters and paint, but nice lots.) and then go get a rental!

OR, how about a 2-family where you can collect the rent to offset your payments, but still get the backyard? and the bank does consider rent income against monthly cost, and you'll be able to get an even bigger mortgage, meaning you'll be able to afford the next place that much faster...Plus 2 families have much lower property taxes, which also helps. They are building these townhomes in Brooklyn for low and median income families, and they work great, and look nice too.

also maybe try broadening your horizons to the possibilities, like Ironbound Newark - don't laugh, you can get a cute 3 story house with a couple of baths and a backyard with a portugese grape vine, safe clean neighbors, and a $1.50 path ride into the city in 22 minutes. It's Brooklyn 1995, and at your age you could afford to take some chances. But they don't come with a Bavarian car in the driveway like it seems you're looking for by looking in Westchester.