Croton on Hudson Schools (Yorktown, Chappaqua: real estate, how much, house)
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Does anyone have any first hand experience with the Croton on Hudson schools? I have learned a lot from school sites -ie test scores, ranking. I just can't seem to find many parent reviews of the school systems. One thing that is very appealing to me is the smaller size of the schools. Thanks everyone. Three cheers for the site. I have learned so much from so many of you.
I know the former high school Assistant Principal, who has worked in several regional schools, and raves about Croton. For my young family, we are seriously considering relocating from Chappaqua to Croton. I know a few families with kids in the school, who love the system.
It has been described to me as a fairly close-knit and down-to-earth community, the schools have excellent personnel. The downside of the school (and the upside) can be it's small size, which can limit some options.
Thank you Havoc 315. We have a 3rd and a 5th grader currently. The sites that I have looked at with ratings rate the highschool very well but the elementary and middleschools rate at the midway mark. Maybe compared to schools in Virginia these schools will still be better. When you say that the smaller size of the school can limit options do you mean things like less AP classes, less electives? Can you elaborate anymore? I had heard that the Croton schools are comparable to Yorktown Heights and Katonah schools but the scores do not reflect this.
I actually believe that Croton schools are a bit superior to Yorktown Heights, and about equal to Katonah.
When I say limited options--- Yes, less electives, less extra-cirriculars then you will find in a larger school. But also, less choices of friend-groups. Less choice of teachers.
I believe you need to be careful of the ratings, especially for smaller schools, which can have great variablity. If the high school is scoring well, then clearly the Elementary school and Middle School got them prepared, right?
I notice, on greatschools.net, the elementary school is rated "8" and the middle school is rated "9." These are exceptional ratings. So not sure where you say "midway" ratings.
Of course, these ratings are just based on the school performance on standardized reading and math tests. And some schools especially "teach to the test," boosting their ratings. Thus, I wouldn't start worrying too much about a 8 compared to a 10, etc, etc.
The question is, over the long term, how does the school system perform. Does it get the students geared towards 4-year colleges, etc.
The last full year with stats available is 1996:
Average SAT Score, class of 1996:
Croton -- 1756, with 94% going on to college.
Katonah -- 1760, with 97% going on to college.
Yorktown -- 1651, with 95% going to college.
So as you can see, they all have roughly the same percentage going on to college, but average SAT scores are significantly higher in Croton and Katonah.
Again, my family personally puts a premium on education. And we are considering moving from Chappaqua (one of the most prestigous school districts in the country), to Croton. Our house was on the market, and we were prepared to make a bid on a house in Croton if the timing worked out, but timing was poor. We have temporarily taken our house off the market, and will re-evaluate in a couple of months.
To me, the "problem" with Croton, is that it is small schools. If you're child has a conflict with their chemistry teacher, (for example), might not be very easy to switch to another class. Or, with only about 100 students per grade, your child might not be able to anonymously blend into a crowd if they want to.
We are considering both the Croton and Yorktown School districts. I had posted a question at city-data.com and was told that Yorktown has programs that are tailored to small groups of children. The principal at Croton said that they don't use the "differentiated instruction" that Yorktown uses but that children are assigned reading at their own level. Following is the reply by DMA1250 to the question I had posted:
"My son's elementary school in Yorktown doesn't have a "special program" for advanced readers, but they use a "differentiated instruction" model that ensures that all the kids get attention at their reading level. Everyday the class is divided in half for a period--half goes to a special (art, music, etc) and the other half stays in the class and is divided into smaller groups based on reading level. The reading specialist comes in and she and the teacher each work with a group, which reads books and gets instruction at their level. Then the kids switch--the half that was in class goes to the special and the other half has reading instruction. In all 3 years--Kindergarten, 1st, and 2nd grades--there have been 4 groups--1 below grade level, 1 at grade level, and 2 above grade level. Since each group is only 4-5 kids, they get pretty individual attention. My son--not to brag--has always been in one of the above-level groups, and his reading skills have continued to grow at a pretty dramatic rate, so I think the approach works very well. The highest group is reading pretty advanced stuff--way above grade level. I know that the below-level kids also get taken out of the class for one-on-one instruction with the reading specialist.
The math instruction is also level-based. The kids get work based on their individual levels. (My son is in a lower level for math!)
Differentiated instruction is pretty standard and I'd be surprised if most area schools don't have a similar approach."
Uh Oh, I'm being quoted. Yes, what I wrote is true of Yorktown schools. The program I described is used in the lower grades--I beleive it carries through middle school.
Comparing schools always makes me nervous. Having developed many assessment programs, I can honestly say that SATS don't tell you anything at all about the quality of the school. First off schools don't teach to the SATS (thank God!), so you are not looking at the results of a test of what kids have been taught in school. If you want to know how well a school teaches to a test, look at the state test results--which schools do indeed teach to. SAT scores depend on how much kids study for the test--which depends on how much money the parents pay for SAT Prep courses and how much pressure they put on the kids to study and do well. So it is a decent way of telling how affluent a community is. Indeed, Katonah and Croton are generally more affluent than Yorktown.
When we were house hunting we did lots of research on Yorktown/Croton/Katonah and talked to a lot of educators familiar with each. Each got kudos on different things. The general consensus was that Yorktown was best for Kindergarten through 5th grade and that Katonah was best for high school. Croton got high marks for some programs and for the relative smallness of the schools (and most people we talked to thought the high school was better than the earlier grades). On the flip side, it does (as havoc says) have fewer electives and clubs due to the smaller size. In the end we concluded that all three would be good in different ways and at different stages.
Also, a tremendous amount depends on the kids. We have lots of friends in Croton and some are happy with the schools and some aren't. Same is true for Yorktown. Some of that depends on the teacher(s) each kid has, but a lot is about the specific child and what he/she responds well to.
I think you should use test scores and other data (student/teacher ratio, amount spent per pupil, etc) to weed out the 'weaker' schools. Then you should use your gut based on your knowledge of your children.
My last comment: Right now I would put extra emphasis on the general 'feeling' you get from the school and the administration. Every school is going to have massive cuts in funding in the next year and how well the individual school manages to deal with that will be key.
I'll agree with DMA, that all three school districts have their pros and cons, but all three are very good school districts. You can't blindly look at school rankings, which are often more telling of the affluence of a community, more than anything else.
But I'll disagree about putting importance on state test scores, over SAT scores. They are both affected by community affluence, it is not surprising that wealthier students perform better on basic reading and math tests. But as DMA says-- Some schools "teach to" the state tests, and they don't teach to the SAT. As a result, the state test scores are not a measure of full student development, only how well they taught to the specific test. There are schools that run practice drill after drill, preparing the students for the mandatory state tests. As a result, they score very well on the state tests, but it shows very little about the overall quality of the education.
Finally, though it is completely unfair, it's also a fact that affluence and quality education often reinforce each other. Good school districts will create a high demand, which will drive up real estate values, which will invite more affluent families into the community. Meanwhile, affluent families will generate a certain amount of peer pressure within the schools towards academic success, and affluent families overall are likely to be more demanding with the school district in terms of the quality of the education.
So while it's true that a "poor" school district might have teachers and education programs superior to the "wealthy" school district, it is nearly impossible to measure this effect. At least, it's impossible to measure by simply looking at scores.
Thanks for the responses. I have been looking at greatschools.net,schooldigger.com and PSK12.com to get some stats on the schools in the area. The first 2 are free and the last one I actually paid money to join. I am planning to visit the schools when we head up north but do not think I will have time to visit each school level ie elementary, middle and highschool. Since my kids are already in elementary school I will probably focus on the middle schools. I am hoping that by looking at the middle schools I will also get a feeling for the high school. I hope I am right.
But I'll disagree about putting importance on state test scores, over SAT scores. They are both affected by community affluence, it is not surprising that wealthier students perform better on basic reading and math tests. But as DMA says-- Some schools "teach to" the state tests, and they don't teach to the SAT. As a result, the state test scores are not a measure of full student development, only how well they taught to the specific test. There are schools that run practice drill after drill, preparing the students for the mandatory state tests. As a result, they score very well on the state tests, but it shows very little about the overall quality of the education.
I agree that test scores don't tell you much--but they do they do tell you how well the school teaches the state curriculum. Thanks to No Child Left Behind, the state curriculum for every grade is directly tied to the standardized state tests. The curriculum starting in Kindergarten is based on what is tested in fourth grade. And starting in 5th grade it is based on the 8th grade test, and so on. Every class is essentially teaching to the test, since the test is based on the curriculum. So test scores, which I personally think are highly overrated, do indeed tell you how well a school is teaching the curriculum. I agree that many schools also spend a great deal of time doing practice tests and drills, which is a sad waste of school time.
SATs on the other hand tell you nothing about the school, the teachers, or what the students have learned. They tell you how well the student has prepped for the test and how well he/she has learned how to take the SATs (thanks to hours of Kaplan classes and pre-tests). No one involved in education considers SAT scores to be worth a dime as a measurement of school performance.
What matters in a school is how well it teaches students to think and to learn and to problem-solve. There is, of course, no easy way to measure that. Which is why the best you can do is to look at the test scores, look at all of the critical data, visit the schools, and talk to parents and students.
Another difference between Croton, YH and Katonah is the division of middle school from elementary school. Croton begins middle school in 5th grade and the other two begin in 6th grade. I was thinking it would be easier for my son to finish out the rest of this year in an elementary school rather than jump into a middle school. This way when he starts school in the fall everyone will be entering a new school. Might be easier for him to make friends and a little less stressful. However, the smaller size of Croton is still appealing to me. I went to a smaller highschool and was able to participate in many sports. I know in some of the bigger schools it is difficult to make any of the sports teams due to competition.
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