U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > Westchester County
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 02-18-2012, 07:21 AM
 
2,503 posts, read 3,642,891 times
Reputation: 1907

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjinla View Post
While I do empathize with what some people are dealing with nowadays, IMO living in the nicer areas of Westchester is a privilege, not a right.

Do we want people living on the streets? No. Do we owe them a place in Rye? Not so much.

If a family making $100K can't afford to live somewhere, I find it offensive that a family making $30K gets to. It's a slap in the face to people that bust their tails to make it in the world.

And as for the social engineering overkill comment...don't even get me started on this ridiculous HUD lawsuit.

BTW, many of the poor nowadays simply live on disability forever instead of welfare. They make up ridiculous ailments and the system looks the other way.
Yes exactly. Why would anyone who's worked their tail off to be in a nice community be subject to have lower class people such as welfare/section 8 people in their community when its a given fact that when you allow such people in, the quality of life and desirableness of the community gets compromised.

The point of busting your tail is to be able to afford the luxury of living in a desirable, ghetto free environment. Now all of a sudden you have low class people with hand outs infiltrating these nice communities, imposing their will, lifestyle, and street culture and pretty much corrupting these neighborhoods. This is a prime example why "integration" does not work and is so one sided. Why should someone that is "poor" have the same luxuries of a person who busted their tail to get there simply because they have a government hand out. Section 8/Welfare people should stick to living in neighborhoods that are already predominately of the same demographics such as the south Bronx, east NY Brooklyn, Harlem, Newark, Camden, etc.

Last edited by hilltopjay; 02-18-2012 at 07:31 AM..

 
Old 02-18-2012, 10:21 AM
 
5,721 posts, read 5,453,721 times
Reputation: 3604
Quote:
Originally Posted by hilltopjay View Post
Oh please. You say intergrade like its a good thing. Sure its a good thing for the person receiving section 8, but its a BAD thing for the regular working people in the community that prefer to keep their community ghetto free. Integration only benefits section 8 people, not the neighborhood. There are countless neighborhoods that never use to be ghetto until low class people such as welfare/section 8 people moved in and force their will, lifestyle and culture upon the community. The desirable people in the area flee from the madness leaving a void that will gladly be filled by ghetto section 8 people. And there you have it...a good community gone bad because it allowed the wrong people to move in. Sure not all section 8 people are bad but as a whole, there are more bad apples than good ones.

This sounds to me like the argument of the people living in the suburbs in the 50s who supported local laws that kept black people out. If a landlord wants to accept a section 8 tenant, that is his CHOICE, nobody is forcing the landlord to accept that tenant.

I disagree that one class of people is more desirable than another, or that the benefits of a nice solid community should be blocked to a certain class of people based on where they are moving from.

And the facts don't back you up. The "section 8 people bring crime" theory is a myth that has been disproven. You moved to a certain place to get out of the ghetto, why is it wrong for section 8 people to want to do the same? It is the concentration of poverty that creates the ghetto conditions. Once they are out of that concentration, the families can thrive.

There are people who abuse section 8 but I think it is a much more effective tool for helping the working poor get quality housing than public housing programs that just create a government-owned ghetto.
 
Old 02-18-2012, 10:25 AM
 
Location: Live in NY State, work in CT
9,007 posts, read 14,775,595 times
Reputation: 3361
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjinla View Post
While I do empathize with what some people are dealing with nowadays, IMO living in the nicer areas of Westchester is a privilege, not a right.

Do we want people living on the streets? No. Do we owe them a place in Rye? Not so much.

If a family making $100K can't afford to live somewhere, I find it offensive that a family making $30K gets to. It's a slap in the face to people that bust their tails to make it in the world.

And as for the social engineering overkill comment...don't even get me started on this ridiculous HUD lawsuit.

BTW, many of the poor nowadays simply live on disability forever instead of welfare. They make up ridiculous ailments and the system looks the other way.
I agree with you on most of this, the problem is that places like Westchester have a huge "imbalance" where a combination of a very large population area/job base combined with too much "NIMBYism" (I'm not against "zoning" but everything can't be kept out of everywhere) produces an unhealthy supply vs. demand imbalance where there are many people who can more than afford "the ghetto" but everything outside of that is priced so that you need to make $150K+ to reasonably afford it.

Something has to give. That's where my suggestion lies as there are plenty of people who "bust their tails to make it in this world" who cannot afford Rye or Bronxville and while I'm not saying they should be given help to live there they certainly deserve to at least live in "one step above the slums" so to speak.

As for disability in my last comment/suggestion, you can add that to the "welfare" disqualification for the "better" Section 8, I didn't think of that but I've read (even in fairly 'liberal' news sources) how many people who have run out of unemployment have kind of "abused" the disability system to get by so it is a growing issue. Again, doing away with a lot of the recent job discriminations against older workers would help to minimize that in my view.
 
Old 02-18-2012, 10:58 PM
 
2,503 posts, read 3,642,891 times
Reputation: 1907
Quote:
Originally Posted by juppiter View Post
This sounds to me like the argument of the people living in the suburbs in the 50s who supported local laws that kept black people out. If a landlord wants to accept a section 8 tenant, that is his CHOICE, nobody is forcing the landlord to accept that tenant.

I disagree that one class of people is more desirable than another, or that the benefits of a nice solid community should be blocked to a certain class of people based on where they are moving from.

And the facts don't back you up. The "section 8 people bring crime" theory is a myth that has been disproven. You moved to a certain place to get out of the ghetto, why is it wrong for section 8 people to want to do the same? It is the concentration of poverty that creates the ghetto conditions. Once they are out of that concentration, the families can thrive.

There are people who abuse section 8 but I think it is a much more effective tool for helping the working poor get quality housing than public housing programs that just create a government-owned ghetto.

Its not a race issue but a quality of life issue. Why can you understand that? The last thing I want is for a section 8 tenant to move in to my quiet neighborhood and invite his homies over to hang out. I don't want to feel like I'm living in the inner city which such issues. Get in where you fit in.
 
Old 02-19-2012, 06:27 AM
 
Location: Live in NY State, work in CT
9,007 posts, read 14,775,595 times
Reputation: 3361
Quote:
Originally Posted by hilltopjay View Post
Its not a race issue but a quality of life issue. Why can you understand that? The last thing I want is for a section 8 tenant to move in to my quiet neighborhood and invite his homies over to hang out. I don't want to feel like I'm living in the inner city which such issues. Get in where you fit in.
HMM, interesting choice of words for not being a "race" issue Granted, I know quite a few mid-upper income minorities who actually feel like you do, but again, the wording speaks volumes......oh when will this long "bumped" thread be closed like the Pelham one was.....this probably belongs in the "Politics" subforum.
 
Old 02-19-2012, 11:13 AM
 
2,503 posts, read 3,642,891 times
Reputation: 1907
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7 Wishes View Post
HMM, interesting choice of words for not being a "race" issue Granted, I know quite a few mid-upper income minorities who actually feel like you do, but again, the wording speaks volumes......oh when will this long "bumped" thread be closed like the Pelham one was.....this probably belongs in the "Politics" subforum.

How is it a race thing? Last I checked, white people get section 8 too. And you have ghetto white people as well. Besides, why are you so SENSITIVE to the whole race thing? Are you black? Probably so going by your chip off the shoulder comments.

But just know that its NOT a race thing but more of a class and/or quality of life thing. We want to live around other like-minded people that care about keeping their community clean, quiet and desirable. We don't need thugs moving in and ruining what we have. Keep that crap in the city. I pay extremely high taxes to live in a desirable area and avoid the whole "gangsta/hood" street culture.

You can take a person OUT the ghetto, but you CAN'T take the ghetto out the person. That phrase speaks volumes hence why I feel strongly against allowing ghetto people to infiltrate quiet and desirable communities. I don't want them to bring any riff-raff along with them and corrupt my neck of the woods. Why is that so wrong for me to desire?

Why can't you respect that?

Yet there's a DOUBLE STANDARD when ghetto neighborhoods become gentrified and there's an out cry from the ghetto residents complaining about be displaced because WHITEY wants to move in. What a double standard!!! Yeah in your book its ok to complain about gentrification but NOT ok to complain about preserving a community and keeping it ghetto free. I'm done! Can't stand people with your mindset.
 
Old 02-19-2012, 01:23 PM
 
Location: The Present
2,016 posts, read 3,689,433 times
Reputation: 1953
Quote:
Originally Posted by hilltopjay View Post
How is it a race thing? Last I checked, white people get section 8 too. And you have ghetto white people as well. Besides, why are you so SENSITIVE to the whole race thing? Are you black? Probably so going by your chip off the shoulder comments.

But just know that its NOT a race thing but more of a class and/or quality of life thing. We want to live around other like-minded people that care about keeping their community clean, quiet and desirable. We don't need thugs moving in and ruining what we have. Keep that crap in the city. I pay extremely high taxes to live in a desirable area and avoid the whole "gangsta/hood" street culture.

You can take a person OUT the ghetto, but you CAN'T take the ghetto out the person. That phrase speaks volumes hence why I feel strongly against allowing ghetto people to infiltrate quiet and desirable communities. I don't want them to bring any riff-raff along with them and corrupt my neck of the woods. Why is that so wrong for me to desire?

Why can't you respect that?

Yet there's a DOUBLE STANDARD when ghetto neighborhoods become gentrified and there's an out cry from the ghetto residents complaining about be displaced because WHITEY wants to move in. What a double standard!!! Yeah in your book its ok to complain about gentrification but NOT ok to complain about preserving a community and keeping it ghetto free. I'm done! Can't stand people with your mindset.
Why are you going overboard? no need bombard people with the obvious. Your making it more of a "race" issue than the poster you initially accused.

No matter where you travel to in the world you'll find similarities in any city/village that you live in. You fed up with the welfare state? Then you need to go march down on Washington and deal with inept policies pushed by useless politicians.

There's a discussion for this, but as 7 wishes said it's for a different forum.
 
Old 02-19-2012, 02:15 PM
 
Location: Live in NY State, work in CT
9,007 posts, read 14,775,595 times
Reputation: 3361
Quote:
Originally Posted by hilltopjay View Post
How is it a race thing? Last I checked, white people get section 8 too. And you have ghetto white people as well. Besides, why are you so SENSITIVE to the whole race thing? Are you black? Probably so going by your chip off the shoulder comments.

But just know that its NOT a race thing but more of a class and/or quality of life thing. We want to live around other like-minded people that care about keeping their community clean, quiet and desirable. We don't need thugs moving in and ruining what we have. Keep that crap in the city. I pay extremely high taxes to live in a desirable area and avoid the whole "gangsta/hood" street culture.

You can take a person OUT the ghetto, but you CAN'T take the ghetto out the person. That phrase speaks volumes hence why I feel strongly against allowing ghetto people to infiltrate quiet and desirable communities. I don't want them to bring any riff-raff along with them and corrupt my neck of the woods. Why is that so wrong for me to desire?

Why can't you respect that?

Yet there's a DOUBLE STANDARD when ghetto neighborhoods become gentrified and there's an out cry from the ghetto residents complaining about be displaced because WHITEY wants to move in. What a double standard!!! Yeah in your book its ok to complain about gentrification but NOT ok to complain about preserving a community and keeping it ghetto free. I'm done! Can't stand people with your mindset.
White guy who grew up in mixed but fairly minority areas, went to a very mixed school for who half of the minorities were "ghetto" types (if you noticed I used the word in a previous post to this thread, I'm hardly PC or "sensitive") and the other half were actually middle-upper middle class. You'd be happy to know that a lot of the latter would side with you and simply resent that many automatically consider them the "ghetto brothers" they despise (although considerably to the right of me politically, think of Allen West or Herman Cain for example). That's where my thinking is coming from

Also, I'm actually not against gentrification, never did say that, it actually benefits the very few in those neighborhoods who don't have a "ghetto mindset". Nor do I think Section 8 should be forced on landlords (what I think the "HUD lawsuit" jjinla was saying is about).
 
Old 02-19-2012, 02:39 PM
 
5,721 posts, read 5,453,721 times
Reputation: 3604
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7 Wishes View Post
White guy who grew up in mixed but fairly minority areas, went to a very mixed school for who half of the minorities were "ghetto" types (if you noticed I used the word in a previous post to this thread, I'm hardly PC or "sensitive") and the other half were actually middle-upper middle class. You'd be happy to know that a lot of the latter would side with you and simply resent that many automatically consider them the "ghetto brothers" they despise (although considerably to the right of me politically, think of Allen West or Herman Cain for example). That's where my thinking is coming from

Also, I'm actually not against gentrification, never did say that, it actually benefits the very few in those neighborhoods who don't have a "ghetto mindset". Nor do I think Section 8 should be forced on landlords (what I think the "HUD lawsuit" jjinla was saying is about).
Section 8 is not forced on landlords. No landlord has to accept section 8 tenants. The only rule is that landlords cannot discriminate based on race.
 
Old 02-19-2012, 03:23 PM
 
2,503 posts, read 3,642,891 times
Reputation: 1907
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7 Wishes View Post
White guy who grew up in mixed but fairly minority areas, went to a very mixed school for who half of the minorities were "ghetto" types (if you noticed I used the word in a previous post to this thread, I'm hardly PC or "sensitive") and the other half were actually middle-upper middle class. You'd be happy to know that a lot of the latter would side with you and simply resent that many automatically consider them the "ghetto brothers" they despise (although considerably to the right of me politically, think of Allen West or Herman Cain for example). That's where my thinking is coming from

Also, I'm actually not against gentrification, never did say that, it actually benefits the very few in those neighborhoods who don't have a "ghetto mindset". Nor do I think Section 8 should be forced on landlords (what I think the "HUD lawsuit" jjinla was saying is about).
Well you being raised in a mixed neighborhood, I'm sure you've seen your fair share of riff-raff low income people can create on a neighborhood and how they can lower the quality of life in a neighborhood. That's what I want to avoid. Of coarse not all low income people are bad, however the bulk of them have a lifestyle that is not conducive to the higher quality of life nicer neighborhoods have. You degrade the community and change the dynamics by allow such people in.

Listen, I just want to protect my community from inner city trash and all the ills it brings. I don't think that's unreasonable.

In addition, I think all would agree that its quite unfair for say, someone like myself to has to pay $7K in mortgage and $30K in property taxes while this inner city Section 8 recipient who makes 25K a year with 5 kids from 5 different "baby daddies" gets to enjoy the same luxuries as I do just because she has a voucher. This kind of stuff gets me so heated. And this HUD lawsuit really touches a nerve and gets under my skin because if successful, this is exactly what will happen. You can thank your wonderful democratic politicians for that law suit.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread



Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > Westchester County
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:35 PM.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top