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Ironically the reasons you mentioned are what I find appealing about southern culture. I appreciate the genuineness of it. The southerners I've met are all honest and straightforward. They don't BS or play fake nice. That's respectable. I appreciate the southern friendliness and hospitality. I like holding the door open for someone or being polite to a stranger.
I'm glad you experience straightforwardness, but in fact, even I will admit that "Southern Culture" has a great deal of passive-aggressiveness in it--the whole "bless your heart" phenomenon (which BTW is more often used in genuine sympathy than in sarcasm, though it has come to be used that way, too). Old fashioned "manners" are much more followed "to the T" in Southern Culture, and many decrees from Emily Post and Miss Manners actually are quite passive-aggressive; lots of smiling thinly with a generic positive comment while staring a ray gun through someone who just insulted you. But Southern Culture is evasive of any negative commentary, so it couches it in these tight-lipped evasive comments that irritate many Northerners who come from places where people "tell it like it is", no matter how rude (or at least rude in the eyes of Southerners who encounter them). I'm told that Northerners value honesty more than politeness, while Southerners are the opposite. So if someone asks what you think of their hideously ugly new dress, an archetypal Northern might say "Oh, gawd, that looks awful on you" while an archetypal Southerner might smile and find some tiny little thing about it to compliment, like the buttons or something (and then make a face as soon as they turn their back). These are extremes and most people fall between the two, but they exemplify a typical N/S difference which is one of the reasons Southerners fid Northerners "rude" and Northerners find Southerners frustratingly enigmatic.
But yes, we do tend to hold to "old-fashioned" manners like holding doors, smiling and saying hello to strangers, teaching children to address adult by their Mr/Ms Lastname, never first name unless they're family, saying please, thank you, and excuse me, etc. Not that no other regions do this, but those are things people tend to notice the most when arriving here from other areas.
Interesting thread, but a bit of over analyzing, in my 15+ yrs experience of living in western NC...
We did not know a person when we moved here, other than the builder and his crews that we met during the build in late 2000 to Autumn 2001, when we moved in.
We have made many friends and some very good friends over that time; they are a group that has come from 'somewhere else' as we did, (we came from Metro NY), and there are also many good friends from western NC as in 7th, 8th gen natives.
We are not rude or obnoxious or arrogant, nor have we pitched 'this is how we did on West 51 St' back in the City.
We have not had an untoward moment with anyone we have met, transplant or multi gen native, of both Euro origin and North American origin.
Not suggesting a kumbaya effect, but some of the slicing and dicing and generalities in this thread makes me go Hmmmm.
I don't think it's over-analyzing at all. As I mentioned earlier, trying to get a real understanding of the culture or karma (how people relate) of a place when you don't live there is difficult but, very important for some people. America is a big country and a melting pot so there are some distinct personalities to various regions. And not everyone likes everywhere.
Generalizations are such a misunderstood word. They are immensely valuable.....but as starting points not end points. They aren't absolutes, they are a framework.
Francois provided several generalizations and, in my experience, he nailed it. Yes, I find it unfortunate also that Southerners too often get depicted in negative ways in many forms of media. But, so do alot of blacks, Latinos, Los Angeles residents, people from the boroughs of NYC, etc. They aren't alone in that.
The extreme indirectness and world-class passive-aggressiveness many newcomers do have an issue with. And are confused by it. You ask a simple, straight question, you want the same kind of answer. Why would you want anything else? Yes, honesty ranks way up there for millions of people; of course it does. Plus, the unwillingness to deliver any info that might be negative also carries huge risks. I have experienced tragedy more than once because "friends" weren't willing to provide information they had about situations or people I was about it engage with. Example: a veterinary practice that routinely deceives customers and convinces many to have their sick pets undergo radical surgeries (they don't position it that way, naturally). My "friend" never told me her hubby had that exact experience a couple years prior to my dog going into that hellhole. Who has a conscience like that?!! But, it's common. I have observed many calmly watch others walk right into harms way rather than tell them what they know and prevent the harm. (I learned about her hubby's experience AFTER the vets had butchered my dog and he suffered the worst week of his life and died.)
Francois, I would be appreciative if you could help us understand what the extreme aversion is to being honest and to alerting others to negative things. Is it related to this -- one Southern former colleague told me, "we are raised to be agreeable, period, above all else". (Then she mentioned she spent 2 years in therapy before she got her head completely wrapped around the prices she was paying for that.) Thanks.
I don't think it's over-analyzing at all. As I mentioned earlier, trying to get a real understanding of the culture or karma (how people relate) of a place when you don't live there is difficult but, very important for some people. America is a big country and a melting pot so there are some distinct personalities to various regions. And not everyone likes everywhere.
Generalizations are such a misunderstood word. They are immensely valuable.....but as starting points not end points. They aren't absolutes, they are a framework.
Francois provided several generalizations and, in my experience, he nailed it. Yes, I find it unfortunate also that Southerners too often get depicted in negative ways in many forms of media. But, so do alot of blacks, Latinos, Los Angeles residents, people from the boroughs of NYC, etc. They aren't alone in that.
The extreme indirectness and world-class passive-aggressiveness many newcomers do have an issue with. And are confused by it. You ask a simple, straight question, you want the same kind of answer. Why would you want anything else? Yes, honesty ranks way up there for millions of people; of course it does. Plus, the unwillingness to deliver any info that might be negative also carries huge risks. I have experienced tragedy more than once because "friends" weren't willing to provide information they had about situations or people I was about it engage with. Example: a veterinary practice that routinely deceives customers and convinces many to have their sick pets undergo radical surgeries (they don't position it that way, naturally). My "friend" never told me her hubby had that exact experience a couple years prior to my dog going into that hellhole. Who has a conscience like that?!! But, it's common. I have observed many calmly watch others walk right into harms way rather than tell them what they know and prevent the harm. (I learned about her hubby's experience AFTER the vets had butchered my dog and he suffered the worst week of his life and died.)
Francois, I would be appreciative if you could help us understand what the extreme aversion is to being honest and to alerting others to negative things. Is it related to this -- one Southern former colleague told me, "we are raised to be agreeable, period, above all else". (Then she mentioned she spent 2 years in therapy before she got her head completely wrapped around the prices she was paying for that.) Thanks.
Well said. I'd rather have a straight forward answer and be told like it is. I may not be happy with the response at first but at least it was an honest answer. It's fine to look for a compliment as well but just tell it like it is. As my dh says, stop beating around the bush.
thanks guys this is fantastic info to learn about. I was not aware how common the "passive aggressive" culture is engrained in the south is with the polite go along to get along mentality.
I guess I just genuinely thought southern people were very friendly, warm, open, polite, etc... maybe I mis-read it and I was being naive and did not realize there is a good chance it was all tongue in cheek?
Are there areas in the south where people are genuinely friendly and open without the passive aggressive that goes along with it?
or am I just taking this too far and reading too much into it?
With people moving around in this country as much as they are, many places are becoming less and less "typical" of their area, and more and more mixed - a hodgepodge of different people doing things in various ways. The area of Asheville and its surrounding towns are a prime example of this. The amount of people moving to WNC from all parts of the country are having a huge effect on the local way of how things were done. I suspect that soon the amount of transplants will outnumber the natives if this wave of people moving to the area keeps up. So to say "what can I expect from the local culture" will become obsolete in these types of places because the ratio of locals to newcomers has the scale tipping, with the locals' way of doing things getting more and more diluted. While one naturally takes on some of the ways of the local inhabitants, so, too, do the local inhabitants take on some of the ways of the newcomers, consciously or not. It is human nature.
thanks guys this is fantastic info to learn about. I was not aware how common the "passive aggressive" culture is engrained in the south is with the polite go along to get along mentality.
I guess I just genuinely thought southern people were very friendly, warm, open, polite, etc... maybe I mis-read it and I was being naive and did not realize there is a good chance it was all tongue in cheek?
Are there areas in the south where people are genuinely friendly and open without the passive aggressive that goes along with it?
or am I just taking this too far and reading too much into it?
thanks again you guys are awesome
Not everyone, in the south, is like this. It's a generalization. In the AVL area, many of the people that I have come in contact, have been friendly and helpful. Another thing that I have noted, it is a slower place. Nobody is in a rush. Lol I am in Greenville, SC and the passive aggressiveness has been a lot more noticeable. (too bad because it really is a nice area) I haven't spent a ton of time in AVL yet but overall my experience so far has been positive. I don't know if they tend to be passive aggressive. I don't think you should discount the area so soon.
thanks guys this is fantastic info to learn about. I was not aware how common the "passive aggressive" culture is engrained in the south is with the polite go along to get along mentality.
I guess I just genuinely thought southern people were very friendly, warm, open, polite, etc... maybe I mis-read it and I was being naive and did not realize there is a good chance it was all tongue in cheek?
Are there areas in the south where people are genuinely friendly and open without the passive aggressive that goes along with it?
or am I just taking this too far and reading too much into it?
thanks again you guys are awesome
northerners are naturally hostile and cant understand any genuine niceness so they tell themselves it's passive aggressive
northerners are naturally hostile and cant understand any genuine niceness so they tell themselves it's passive aggressive
I'm not naturally hostile at all in fact i'm very patient and understanding. If you read my earlier posts I took it as genuinely being friendly and happy people. But then after reading everyone's above comments I am second guessing whether it was genuine friendliness I experienced or if it was passive aggressive and I'm looking to learn more and have a better understanding....
Not everyone, in the south, is like this. It's a generalization. In the AVL area, many of the people that I have come in contact, have been friendly and helpful. Another thing that I have noted, it is a slower place. Nobody is in a rush. Lol I am in Greenville, SC and the passive aggressiveness has been a lot more noticeable. (too bad because it really is a nice area) I haven't spent a ton of time in AVL yet but overall my experience so far has been positive. I don't know if they tend to be passive aggressive. I don't think you should discount the area so soon.
Here's my take on it. Southerners aren't inherently more friendly and helpful than people anywhere else. The past reputation for that is largely based on the fact that small town and rural people (almost) everywhere are friendly and helpful, while big city people move at a faster pace and are more "tell it like it is" But since the South was, until quite recently, largely rural and small town, Southerners developed more a reputation and stereotype for friendliness and helpfulness.
I would suggest that the average resident of a small town in upstate New York, Minnesota or Mississippi are all friendly and helpful, and the average resident of New York City, Atlanta and Los Angeles are more faster paced and straightforward. The good news is that since the South still contains a large native population that grew up in small town/rural places, Southern cities seem friendlier and more helpful.
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