Creating local work/jobs with meaning (Asheville: for sale, house, construction)

[andybuildz]

Originally Posted by BucksnortBilly

Maybe you could also incorporate some trades training for kids who don't fit the college mold? Looks like there's going to be a shortage of really skilled trades people after folks like me croak<G>

Bucky....now THATS EXACTLY the kind of feedback I'm looking for b/c that's the kind of thing I'd love to see happen and be a part of.
To me it's about giving back and at the same time being apart of it all.
Building like so many other things have become a lost art pursued by fewer and fewer folks. The amount of true craftsman/woman out there are becoming fewer every day. It's all about a quick buck and less about quality.....in my opinion that's a real unhealthy way to live and will do this rock no good.
I think joining forces to some degree can be beneficial to more people than we might imagine. We already live in an example of where greed and me me me gets us.

[NC_Paddler]

Originally Posted by andybuildz

I was simply trying to find examples of people that started business' based on true co-operation and equality with a higher consciousness than your typical wall street type.

With all due respect, you used Whole Foods as an example of the type of business you want to start, and I'm just pointing out that it has absolutely nothing to do with "higher consciousness". Whole Foods is a publicly traded company on Wall Street, and I can assure you their board and shareholders are more interested in the stock price than raising the collective consciousness. And John Mackey is an extremely rich man as a result of his efforts (not that there's anything wrong with that).

And Ben and Jerry got rich on selling people high fat, high sugar, unhealthy junk food. I don't see that as consciousness raising, truth be told. I see it as contributing to that pervasive American health epidemic called "diabetes".

No offense, just calling it like it is.

On the other hand, if you start a company that provides quality products and services at competitive prices, I'm happy to give you my business. If your employees and co-owners are as happy and fulfilled with their jobs as you hope, I'm sure that fact will be reflected in the quality of work they provide, and your business will thrive.

Best of luck to you, sir.

[andybuildz]

Originally Posted by NC_Paddler

And Ben and Jerry got rich on selling people high fat, high sugar, unhealthy junk food. I don't see that as consciousness raising, truth be told. I see it as contributing to that pervasive American health epidemic called "diabetes".

No offense, just calling it like it is.

On the other hand, if you start a company that provides quality products and services at competitive prices, I'm happy to give you my business. If your employees and co-owners are as happy and fulfilled with their jobs as you hope, I'm sure that fact will be reflected in the quality of work they provide, and your business will thrive.

Best of luck to you, sir.

Listen...no matter where Ben and Jerry's company eventually ended up or whether or not their initial plan or statements were true or not isn't the point...my point is their intention is what is inspirational to me and i do believe they were very sincere in giving back to their employees and commmunity.
As far as feeding people fats and sugar...thats a whole other discussion...same as Bill Cosby who on one hand preaches higher education and on the other pushes JELLO.
You don't need to talk to me about healthy diets...I've practiced Macrobiotics pretty strictly for many years. I can get deep into talking about diet/lifestyle but I'm not looking to push anything on anyone that has different beliefs. All I can do is set an example and speak briefly about what I believe...and if anyone's is then interested I'd elaborate. I'm not on this rock to push anything on anyone. I respect other ways of life as long as it adds something positive and doesn't rob others what's due them.

Far as Ben and Jerry goes....I DO know there's been things negatively said about some of the ways they've done things but like I previously said...I believe their intentions were sincere when they started out.
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That year marked a turning point for Cohen and Greenfield. With a new sense of mission, they vowed to adapt their business to suit their philosophies-rather than letting their business concerns dictate their ideology. This was partially accomplished by the establishment of the Ben & Jerry Foundation, which received 7.5 percent of the ice cream company's pre-tax profits and then donated them to the community through various charitable organizations. Long known as friendly, concerned bosses, the duo tried to enshrine such attitudes into company policy. To work at a Ben & Jerry's outlet or plant was to become part of a team, where each individual was valued. Respect for employees took a far greater precedence than any corporate or profit oriented concerns.

Such a liberal spirit, combined with the overwhelming success of the actual Ben & Jerry product, earned the company an enemy-food giant Pillsbury, which owned the Haagen-Dazs premium ice cream brand. Haagen-Dazs had achieved success in many markets, but its primary competition was the Ben & Jerry brand. Pillsbury attempted, via legal channels, to stop Ben & Jerry ice cream outlets from opening near theirs, and also forced Ben & Jerry's to file suit against them when Pillsbury put pressure on outside suppliers who sold to both companies. Reflecting upon their own anti-corporate spirit, Ben & Jerry's launched a media offensive centered around the slogan. "What's the Doughboy Afraid Of?," in reference to the Pillsbury's cuddly emblem.

By 1986, Cohen and Greenfield's business was reporting sales of $20 million annually. New flavors attracted more Ben & Jerry devotees every year, and some of the additions to the roster were suggestions sent in to the company. Cherry Garcia, for example, was a fruity homage to the Grateful Dead lead singer Jerry Garcia that had come from two followers of the band; New York Super Fudge Chunk had been the idea of a chocaholic New York writer. Meanwhile, the founders continued to concentrate much of their energies on setting an example of giving back to the community-in this case, the global community. For some ingredients-cashews from Brazil, blueberries from Maine-the company began a policy of purchasing from indigenous peoples and paying a fair rate. Closer to home, a "Partnershop" with a Harlem shelter for homeless men opened in 1992; the ice cream shop is staffed by residents and the shelter receives 75 percent of the store's profits.

Another example of such commitment to their ideals was the Ben & Jerry Foundation's "1 percent for Peace" drive. This was a non-profit organization that actively worked to redirect one percent of the United States military budget to life-improving-not life-taking-goals. Their Peace Pops, introduced that same year, served as a marketing tool for the foundation, providing information on the 1 percent for Peace campaign and directing the interested toward action. A voter registration drive and taking on the sponsorship for the failing counterculture staple, Rhode Island's Newport Jazz Festival, were other typical Ben & Jerry corporate activities during this era.

In 1988, Cohen and Greenfield received the Corporate Giving Award from the Council on Economic Priorities for their Ben & Jerry Foundation. That same year, the iconoclastic pair was named Small Business Leaders of the Year by President Ronald Reagan and attended an award ceremony at the White House. Over the next few years, as their business suffered the ups and downs of market demand-a diet-conscious public had begun to eschew premium ice cream for lowfat versions or frozen yogurt-Ben & Jerry's Homemade continued to back their philosophies with concrete actions. In one 1991 episode derided by the mainstream business periodical Fortune, they paid above-market prices to their local milk suppliers after cutbacks in a federal dairy-subsidy program caused market prices to drop severely. This had brought some hardship to many small dairy farmers-Vermont's among them-but instead of profiting from the decline, Ben & Jerry's Homemade made a decision to show explicit support for small, people-oriented businesses like their own.
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Again...it's not about that. It was about the intention...I'm not looking to get into the politics..thats a whole other discussion.
And for me personally my intent has always been to give my customers more than they bargained for. I've "always" thrown so much extra into my work for free..almost to a fault. The added details I pay attention to that no one will ever see is a given within my work.

My last job was a bathroom redo...My customer didn't want to pay the extra few hundred dollars to have Kerdi membrane installed over the mud job I did in his shower because he said he thought it was a waste of money being showers were built without it for so many years. I just couldn't convince him how wrong he was so guess what...I did it anyway...free of charge...know why? Because it made it a much better job and in my book...one leaves their signature on their work whether you can read it or not.

There's a whole lot people can do to make this rock a better and more trusting non-partisan place to live...but collectively think of the possibilities....thats all I'm saying.

[organick]

Andy,

I would agree that whole was a ppor choice being that they are against labor unions along with a whole bunch of other reasons. That being said I know thats not really your issue here.


I think your concept is driven by good intentions and true and would love to see it work for you. The one thing I am unsure about is the basic idea of "throwing so much extra into a job for free". I don't really see who that benefits except for your customer, who is someone paying for remodeling work already so they are not that hard off? I completely understand you taking pride in your work and wanting to give everyone involved the best possible benefit from it and that is great. I don't really think that it is a new idea though, there are countless building/remodeling companies in the area with great reputations and who take great pride in the work/ craft they do. There are many companies building environmentally responsible houses etc.

I in know way mean to knock I am just finding the big picture a little unclear. Do you want to start another habitat for humanity? The local tech college has a carpentry and cabinet making program along with several others as does the community college one county away.

I my self run a very small remodeling company and I would just say that the market is very tough right now. There are guys out there bidding work based on $12/ hr. sure its not the best work but they are getting work. There are also alot of builders turned remodelers now due to slowed construction. Not to say you can't make it but I imagine that it may be alot different than what you are used to on Long Island.

All that being said I think if you can make the idea go Than best of luck to you and I would be interested in talking to you more and maybe teaming up a bit. Good luck.

[Cofga]

Andy--this is a very exciting thread that offers the kind of opportunity that you don't see often. I certainly hope that in spite of the poor economy that you can make this happen. May I also suggest that you might contact the city and/or county schools to see if you can set something up with them as well. I would also think that there must be some grant opportunities out there to get something like this off the ground. Maybe tie it in to something in the energy saving/green industry too. After my recent house hunting trip I can tell you there are a lot of homes on the market that need help, especially if you can do something about mold and mildew! Don't let the naysayers on here change your mind

[andybuildz]

Organick & Cofga,
First off let me address giving things away for nothing. After thirty years in the business I've found that there IS a fine line between giving something away to just anyone. That's not the case with me. I give to people that I know appreciate me and treat me accordingly..and recognize what I'm doing for them.
That bathroom I mentioned where I just went ahead and installed the Kerdi membrane for free? That guy has been up and beyond appreciative. He has hired me time and time again and NEVER questions my prices because I've earned his trust. Matter of fact I was over there today going over his kitchen project. Actually, I do a lot for free like accompanying him to the tile dealer and helping him pick out the proper tiles. He consults me over and over about ideas that archy's charge a fortune for...so to me I'm not doing anything for nothing in all reality. I'm doing for him what I'd appreciate someone doing for me...and if someone treated me the way I treat other people I wouldn't even begin to think of using anyone else. I'd recommend that kind of man to everyone I knew. To me you need to see the bigger picture. In all that we do. I also always have in the back of my head that I don't want anyone to think they're getting over on my good nature. People that I feel have that kind of attitude...which btw are a dime a dozen...I only do what's in the contract. I basically play by the Golden Rule. I don't like getting walked all over either but I'm bright enough and can read people pretty well to know who's worth what. I could go into how incredibly rude some people are...beyond belief. I know who's who. ...and let me add..the guy I've done a lot for for nothing? He's quite well to do....and one of the nicest guys I've ever known. I value those people in business and in my personal life...and I let them know it one way or another. There's a lot of different meanings to the word "free". Maybe I don't chose my words well...or companies to make my point...lol. Maybe I just figure most people can get past that technical glitch and understand where I'm going. My fault....sorry...I'll work on that.

Far as this economy goes....sometimes one can brainstorm enough and figure out a way to make what is happening work FOR you rather than against you. Maybe thats what this economy is telling me. It's all about greed isn't it? Something we haven't thought about as much before the recession and we're all a little bit to blame...some more than others.

Look what the remodelling and building industry had become compared to generations ago...craftsmanship has been replaced by hacks in it ONLY for the money. Not everyone...but enough to have given carps a pretty bad name.
Maybe the message is to come together and re-evaluate. Work together a bit more than we had. Become allies not hardcore competitors. Competition is healthy...until it drags your peers down. It keeps reminding me of how politicians work, Getting in the way of making good things happen. I believe we lose sight of the bigger picture.

Far as Habitat For Humanity. My thought is not to do something that extreme but rather have a portion of that in the mix.

Honestly? I don't have a steadfast plan. I'm open to discussion. Looking for good ideas to share and at some point come together with a small group and organize all the ideas. Same way we build. Have the vision...brain storm up some good ideas and eliminate some until there's some sort of structure...and then expand it..... to the community when we have something worthy to show them.

I had this pretty silly idea a ways back about doing this on a much larger scale and it's never left me but my mistake (as usual..lol) is I start thinking too big so here I am...narrowing it down to just one community. A much much better idea. BTW...don't laugh but this was my plan back about a year ago which I nixed (for now). Much too big an idea to start with for me A VILLAGE AT A TIME | Facebook not to mention like most of us my finances aren't exactly what they used to be. I don't have the time to give THAT much away for free now...lol....at all. I'm struggling with the rest of you.
This all reminds me of that tag line I came up with which is, "How people treat you is their karma, how you respond is yours". You can apply that in many forms if you know what I mean.

I have a lot more to say but like my wife tells me...I go on too long sometimes so...for now..it's someone else's turn to throw out some thoughts and btw...if there's enough of you I think City Data would probably rather us take this conversation else where so maybe I'd start a different Facebook page we could discuss this in.
Be well
andy

[organick]

Andy,

I am def. not being a nay-sayer and I totally understand your point about the kerdi now that you explained it more.

My question still is I am unclear about what exactly you are looking to do thats different? There are alot of building/ remodeling companies here with ethics and skilled craftsman. Lots of builders hire 19 year olds and teach them a trade? I get the cooperative concept but isn't that how most really small businesses work? Like you said you aren't going to change the fact that developers buy 100 acres and put up 40 houses. I think your intentions are good just still a little unclear on the difference if you are not going to be some sort of non-profit providing housing for low-income people?? Again good luck and I would like to talk more about it, just seems fuzzy still.

[Asheville Native]

Originally Posted by organick

Andy,

I am def. not being a nay-sayer and I totally understand your point about the kerdi now that you explained it more.

My question still is I am unclear about what exactly you are looking to do thats different? There are alot of building/ remodeling companies here with ethics and skilled craftsman. Lots of builders hire 19 year olds and teach them a trade? I get the cooperative concept but isn't that how most really small businesses work? Like you said you aren't going to change the fact that developers buy 100 acres and put up 40 houses. I think your intentions are good just still a little unclear on the difference if you are not going to be some sort of non-profit providing housing for low-income people?? Again good luck and I would like to talk more about it, just seems fuzzy still.

Or buy 5 acres and put up 40 houses.

Andy, as far as your 6 points in your OP, do I get the impression you believe these qualities don't exist here, and that the trades here are just a bunch of rednecks with pickups, without real skills, ethics, etc.?

[andybuildz]

Originally Posted by Asheville Native

Or buy 5 acres and put up 40 houses.

Andy, as far as your 6 points in your OP, do I get the impression you believe these qualities don't exist here, and that the trades here are just a bunch of rednecks with pickups, without real skills, ethics, etc.?

HUH??? Not at all...matter of fact Bucksnortbilly in a previous post here I know well and he's from NC and is an AMAZING carp! I think so many houses in NC are absolutely gorgeous and well thought out..probably more so than in NY.
But on top of that...I'd NEVER generalize about anyone.

I have no idea where you got that in your mind...at all!

And to boot...last year I even signed up for a week long class in timber framing in Franklin. I thought he work they did was amazing. I know...even at my age that theres always lots to learn.

Maybe one of the reasons I want to move to NC is because of how much I think of the crafts people there.

and in part...the answer to Organick's question about where to start with my idea would be builder get togethers.
I attended several here on LI but to me...it was as much or more about selling something to the builders that joined these groups rather than just unadulterated good will to the community through the builders.

I'd love to see a network of like minded builders from every single trade get together on a regular basis along with others that could help one another in many ways... discuss things that we as builders could do to keep prices down while picking quality up. Coming together with lumber yards and all kinds of suppliers.
Utilizing like minded builders services. Keeping one another busy and pro active in the community at the same time. Keeping things local. I know...thats REALLY vague...for now.

I feel as though the more like minded people come together the more information and resources you'd gather within the community.

In my neck of the woods it's pure cut throat to the tenth degree.

BTW...A'VilleNative...why do you seem so defensive all the time???

[LiveLoveLaugh]

Anyone looking back on your old posts will come up w/ their own conclusions.
When you move to Asheville I hope for your sake you don't keep bringing up "in my neck of the woods" Generation after generation of wonderful local craftsmen have been creating beautiful workmanship that have survived and thrived in these beautiful mountains....now what is it that you are trying to teach us????? Bring out the violins