Moral support needed for a "liberal" traped in Wichita (Hays: rent, houses)

[TinaMcG]

Originally Posted by talbet

You know I have no problem with anyone having a different opinion than I do. It is their right. But most Christians want to change the world to make them do as they think is right. They want to stop people from gambling, having sex if not married, no gay rights, only Christian religion taught in school ect. People who only do as they believe for them self and do not try to change others way of life, I have no problem with that. That’s was this country is about. I can not believe in god, and you can, and I should not try to stop you from being on the school board nor you me, but we should keep our personal opinions at home. And there is a huge difference between science and intelligent design. Science has hypothesis, facts and more facts that support a theory. Intelligent design has a 2000 yo book that is about as relevant to today as last years lotto ticket numbers.

No, absolutely not true. The loudest, brashest and most obnoxious ones try to do that, and they fail. They have big microphones and small minds, that's all, and no thanks to Kansas, they are not running the show now. I don't think they ever were. (Bush gave them lip service to get elected and then shafted them.)

And you might think about what the whole 'intelligent design' belief is. It says God was the designer of evolution as Darwin theorized it. The Bible's version is what many call Creationism, which I think is a nice story with good lessons in it -- but definitely not based in fact. Much of the Bible is like that, so I don't see it as irrelevant. I just have a problem when people limit its message by taking it literally.

So with some reservation, I now hit the Submit button...

[talbet]

People who want to go to church on Sunday and associate with people and tell lessons to each other about morality that’s fine. Its the people who want to knock on your door and tell you that the end of the world is coming, or those that hold up signs that say "god loves dead GIs" Some say that they need to not get an education, or that they need not live today because the end of the world is at hand. (like this has not been said since that guy was nailed to a cross) Wichita Christians have worked hard to keep out a casino that most of them drive several times a year to KC to gamble in anyways. They act like they are pious for doing this and have only shot them self in the foot. Now they could use the jobs and income it would have brought in. Shortsightedness, thinking that god somehow has a hand in what goes on in the world, if that were the case then he is culpable in the mass killings of ww2, and all the wrongs of history, some so horrible you can hardly read them. Instead of trying to work and fix the problems of the world, they would rather sit in a prayer group and talk to the air for help. How many people have prayed and got nothing, Some say that they prayed for help to get ride of some diseases and it worked, fine, how come god has never cured an amputee? Does god not love amputees as much as people with cancer or some other thing that can not be proven was healed by prayer? Either god does not have the power to do a amputee healing or he just does not like them as much as people with other diseases.

[TinaMcG]

Talbet, please be a bit more informed about the things you're railing against. I mean that, and I am not trying to get into a fight.

Jehovah's Witnesses knocked on our door yesterday. Sweet ladies who mean well, but I told them thanks, but no thanks, I'm covered. I wasn't mad. I wasn't annoyed. they were doing what they think is right, and they weren't being pushy. They left when I told them I wasn't interested.

As for the "God loves dead GI's" group, that's the Phelp's clan in Topeka, and they do not represent Christians any more than the KKK does. They're pariahs.

Talking about God having a hand in everything that goes on in the world...there are different beliefs on that. I happen to believe that God is actually in all of us, not some Big Guy in the Sky who watches over us. And that belief squares with my Christian beliefs. I believe that each of us as the capacity to do anything God can do -- though as humans we probably never will. So we kill each other, keep each other in poverty and suffering, and we come up with self-serving ideas about religion that give us excuses to rape and pillage the earth and treat each other like scum. All because we are not using the godliness God gave us. It's our choice, you know.

As for God healing infirmities -- you don't know what that person's soul needs. Maybe the growth of that person's soul requires a physical infirmity or illlness. You are making a value judgement on what is accpetable in life and what is not, and that isn't for any of us to make. People who might never make a difference in this world (Steven Hawking, Helen Keller, for example) have done remarkable things because of their "handicaps". And look what Christopher Reeve was able to do for mankind because of his accident. It was an awful thing, and it caused him to die young, but just maybe his soul's purpose required that to happen to him so that spinal cord research could be advanced so much. Our greatest trial is an opportunity for our greatest triumph.

I doubt that our house will ever get demolished by a tornado or fire, but I can tell you if that happens, I will rise to the challenge and I will grow and mature from the experience. Maybe I'll hate the process, but I'll always have the hope of something good coming from a bad situation.

Do some reading about different religions and philosophies. Don't assume you know all there is to know to formulate your opinion or rant about the evils of Christianity in a public forum. For as many evils that have been perpetrated in the name of religion, there are as many or more acts of kindness, charity and compassion.

[talbet]

Originally Posted by TinaMcG

Talbet, please be a bit more informed about the things you're railing against. I mean that, and I am not trying to get into a fight.

Jehovah's Witnesses knocked on our door yesterday. Sweet ladies who mean well, but I told them thanks, but no thanks, I'm covered. I wasn't mad. I wasn't annoyed. they were doing what they think is right, and they weren't being pushy. They left when I told them I wasn't interested.

As for the "God loves dead GI's" group, that's the Phelp's clan in Topeka, and they do not represent Christians any more than the KKK does. They're pariahs.

Talking about God having a hand in everything that goes on in the world...there are different beliefs on that. I happen to believe that God is actually in all of us, not some Big Guy in the Sky who watches over us. And that belief squares with my Christian beliefs. I believe that each of us as the capacity to do anything God can do -- though as humans we probably never will. So we kill each other, keep each other in poverty and suffering, and we come up with self-serving ideas about religion that give us excuses to rape and pillage the earth and treat each other like scum. All because we are not using the godliness God gave us. It's our choice, you know.

As for God healing infirmities -- you don't know what that person's soul needs. Maybe the growth of that person's soul requires a physical infirmity or illlness. You are making a value judgement on what is accpetable in life and what is not, and that isn't for any of us to make. People who might never make a difference in this world (Steven Hawking, Helen Keller, for example) have done remarkable things because of their "handicaps". And look what Christopher Reeve was able to do for mankind because of his accident. It was an awful thing, and it caused him to die young, but just maybe his soul's purpose required that to happen to him so that spinal cord research could be advanced so much. Our greatest trial is an opportunity for our greatest triumph.

I doubt that our house will ever get demolished by a tornado or fire, but I can tell you if that happens, I will rise to the challenge and I will grow and mature from the experience. Maybe I'll hate the process, but I'll always have the hope of something good coming from a bad situation.

Do some reading about different religions and philosophies. Don't assume you know all there is to know to formulate your opinion or rant about the evils of Christianity in a public forum. For as many evils that have been perpetrated in the name of religion, there are as many or more acts of kindness, charity and compassion.

As far as Jehovah’s Witnesses go I was raised in that cult for 30 years. Before the advent of the internet we were not allowed to learn anything other than cult teachings. They are not just nice little old lady’s no more than the nice little old lady wearing an SS uniform at Dachau is just doing what she thinks is right. They come with smiles and act like they just want to help, but once the hook is set, they will tell you to cut ties with any family members who are not followers of the cult, you can not marry anyone who is not a cult member, you can not watch certain TV, Movies, or listen so music that is not in line with the cult teachings, they have guide lines to what sex can be had between married persons.
They will tell you to cut all holidays including birthdays, you will not be able to celebrate them from this point forward. You have to attend 4 meetings a week and set aside 4 hours a month for personal study. This is study in their books, not the bible. You have to go 8 hours min. a month knocking on doors to convert other low IQ people. Then there are 3 assembly’s set up around the country that you have to take your vacation time if necessary to attend.
Once you are fully indoctrinated if you smoke a cigar, are caught with a Christmas tree on you living room floor, or have a birthday at chucky cheese’s for your 5 yo you will be called in before a committee of elders and made to confess, if you do not fall to your knees and ask for forgiveness you will be dis-fellowshipped, and can be if they feel you are not sincere. Once DFed, you can not talk to any fellow cult member for any reason. If your father is a member and he talks to you he can be DFed with you. You must attend the Kingdom hall (church) late so as not to make others feel uncomfortable, and leave early for at least one year. After that if you show humility and do all you are asked, they will convene another committee and decide if they will reinstate you.
You can be DFed for reading anything , watching anything or questioning the idea that the “society” as it is called is not the only mouth piece for god on earth, that they are not god’s only group that he approves and all other religions are of Satan.
Then there is the pedophile debacle. You see Dubbers as I call them, have a million rules you have to follow, one of which makes the cult a pedophile heaven. You see, if you see a fellow member of the cult commit a crime, you are not allowed to turn them into the police. You have to call an elder. So lets say your kid comes to you and says that Elder Smith touched his no no place. You can not call the police. You have to call and elder. Now there is another rule. You have to have a min. of 2 witnesses to a crime or infraction to an incident. So since pedophiles do not commit their crimes in front of an audience, and he most likely will say the kid is a liar, the elders will say there is nothing they can do. You are not allowed to treat Elder Smith with any disrespect and would be DFed for calling the police. Just like you are not allowed to take Elder Smith to court if he does not pay you or defaults on a contract. It has to be handled in the cult.
If anyone here wants to call me a liar, go to http://www.silentlambs.com/ This was started by a Kentucky former Dubber who was an elder and was involved in a pedophile case where he was directed to keep the incident quiet.
I have only touched on the surface of what Jehovah’s Witnesses are doing that make them cultish and dangerous. Even France, and Russia and other countries have listed them as a “destructive cult”


So Tina do not say I need to learn more about what I bash. I have been studding religion and know more than most people who are members of religious organizations.

[TinaMcG]

Talbet, I am truly sorry that you had such a terrible experience with religion. I mean that. But please do not try to paint all religions with the same brush. I do understand that organized religions have done an awful lot of harm while claiming to do it for God. I also am saddened by all the suffering, death and torture that has resulted from religious fervor.

But the fact is, you do need to learn more -- discover different aspects of spirituality. It will do you good. I'm not necessarily talking about religion, either. I'm a gardener and can dig my bare hands into the soil and feel anything but dirty because I see the soil as the source of so much life. It's a whole world unto itself down there. I have studied the science of soil in college and have a couple horticultural certifications, yet the spiritual joy I get from growing things far outstrips the satisfaction of having studied the science.

I only know one Jehovah's Witness. which doesn't make me an expert, but he is the owner of a construction company that has done work for us. He is the only contractor we found who was completely honorable and reliable, and his company does outstanding work at a fair price. We have spoken briefly about his religion, and he has not tried to judge me or preach to me.

We all have a soul which is on a path. For some, an organized religion floats their soul's boat. For others, it does not. So they search, which can be a very disturbing and painful process, but it is always a process that leads to something good. We discover who we are through our experiences and the choices we make in dealing with challenges. I hope your path includes a lot more love and a lot less anger and resentment. Those things can really snuff out your candle.

[Stewartfan2009]

Why not Boston, Mass. that's probably the most liberal place on the planet.

[pvlman]

Originally Posted by [LEFT

thriftylefty[/LEFT];7363011]If you can afford the foothills of California that would be my choice, I stayed in a motel there that [LEFT]did'nt[/LEFT] have a heater or air conditioner.... Perfect all year around!, If you are looking for liberals in [LEFT]kansas[/LEFT] you might have more luck in the small towns rather than the cities, some place that still does things "The cowboy way"

Uh? in 2009, the "cowboy way" and small towns are as Conservative as you can get. Though the [LEFT]conservatives[/LEFT] in the small city of Hays, KS perpetually complain about the liberal Ellis County Democrats.

[US-Traveller]

Originally Posted by Stewartfan2009

Why not Boston, Mass. that's probably the most liberal place on the planet.

San Francisco is by far the most liberal. Boston embraces liberal economic policy and strongly supports abortion rights, but is not the most socially liberal city. San Francisco is a very socially liberal and communist area.

[US-Traveller]

Originally Posted by buck75061

I'm in a similar situation. What has me bummed is that so many of the places that seem to fit with my progressive values are either in much colder climates or very expensive. Do you have a place you want to go? I'm considering Madison, Wisconsin because it's very progressive, thanks to the University of Wisconsin, and about the size of Wichita, which I like after living in Dallas and dealing with so much sprawl. The University of Wisconsin's graduate program is a draw for me, too. However, I'm not opposed to living in a large city again if it has a viable public transportation system. I really like Chicago. I've also looked at Albuquerque for its climate. It seems to be in a pretty liberal area.

Chicago isn't liberal. Have you heard of the "ring of fire"? Those are the strongly Republican suburban congressional districts surrounding the city of Chicago and close-in suburbs. Madison is pretty liberal, but Southern Wisconsin as a whole is the most conservative portion of the state.

[TedH71]

Goaliefight..your comment about Austin is way off base:

Austin, TX
Pros: Great weather. Lots of tech jobs. Affordable cost of living.
Cons: Not much to do but drink and surrounded by conservative areas.

First of all, I lived in Austin for over 25 years. It is not affordable to live in. One bedroom apt that is 422 sq ft goes for $600 a month! Here in Wichita, you can rent a house for $600 a month. Jobs depend on what you want to do....high tech...depends on what your job is otherwise, no. Not much to do...oh please, they have over 300 miles of biking/hiking trails...heard they were adding 100 more miles soon. Boating, camping, swimming, etc....it's a very outdoorsy town with tons of restaurants and an excellent music industry..ever heard of SXSW? Movie stars have moved to Austin and established homes because people leave them alone..Sandra Bullock, Matthew...you get the idea. As for weather....we have a joke: it's either hot or hotter. Not kidding. It gets tiring after a while to sweat while you're walking from your car to the house.

Cheap housing? Nope. Houses go for a minimum of $150k or up. Heard the economy has caused the prices to fall somewhat. Do not go to work for Mr. Dell. He's a crook. He hires illegals under contract to another company so if he gets busted for it...it technically isn't his company so he doesn't get in trouble for it and those illegals earn $7 an hour even if they work OT. How do I know? I worked there. He also does other things that cause employees to leave even in good paying jobs...

Austin ISN'T a college town...hasn't been since 1990. It has well over 1 million people who do different things. They have Whole Foods store..excellent store....Colorado river...etc.