Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You obviously don't have the ability to debate policy and it shows that you're way out of your league since your arguments are reduced to where all parties reside. When talking about transportation-comparison among different modes is very relevant; especially when demonstrating how one mode compliments our transportation system (planes included). In this increasingly globalized economy, political borders matter less and less, so when taking about a rail line connecting one of the leading research centers in the nation with the third largest urban area in the nation, then the matter becomes an issue of national importance. If you can't see the value in establishing such a vital connection with a transportation mode that uses less fossil fuel per passenger along with cost effective performance, then I'm truly at a loss for words.
I strongly suggest that you read more on a topic so you don't have to resort to childish talking points.
I'm surprised you kept in going for this long. That guy was an absolute troll, just trying to rile people up....
Hey know what That is why we have an election and a fiscally conservative person was elected. One of the planks in his platrform was to stop this he got elected point blank THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE THAT LIVE IN WISCONSIN HAVE DECIDED.
When I started this thread, I tried to keep my criticism of Walker's decision civil and well thought out. I REALLY disagree with his decision, but I'm not the one in the captain's chair right now; so, I'll have to live with it. Also, lets bare in mind that you're argument was the one that won out (so take solace in your triumph).
Secondly, although next to my name it says I live in Japan (which I do) I'm only working here on a temporary work visa. I still claim residency in Wisconsin and still pay taxes in Wisconsin (which, I might add, are going to be three years of my life where I WILL NOT benefit directly from those taxes be they roads, rail, air, or anything else we pay taxes for). But I acknowledge that that was my decision to make.
Now, the majority of the people that live in Wisconsin did elect Walker, but electing Walker and wanting to give away the rail money are not the same thing. Many fiscally conservative leaning business leaders in the Milwaukee and Madison areas came out for the train but for Walker as well. My mother voted for Walker but didn't want to see the train derailed. Many of these people just hoped he would see things their way when he got elected. Which he didn't.
If you argue that you wanted the money to be spent in a different way, I'm sorry, although he tried very, very hard to convince people that it was, that was NEVER an option for the money. The stimulus package had provisions for all modes of transportation; the rail portion was substantially smaller than that of the road portion. So, no. You can't have your cake and eat it, too. This was his decision and as much as I disagree with it, I have to live with it. The Walker Economic Plan (and I certainly hope there is one) does not include a train, so that 7.5 million dollars a year must be tagged to go somewhere else.
My problem with Walker is that this train was bigger than him. It involved over 30 years of planning across three states, many, many, many studies into feasibility and environmental impact, negotiations with federal agencies, and agreements with extra-national governments. It involved sending two governors to different countries including: China, Spain, France, and Germany to study new methods in rail production. All of this, Walker threw out the door in, what I would argue, would be a not-very-fiscally conservative manner because he didn't like it. NOT, because it was the fiscally conservative way to do things.
The people of Wisconsin elected the executive of Milwaukee County to the governor's mansion. Milwaukee County is going bankrupt. He had a good deal of time to fix the fiscal problems in Milwaukee County, as he will for the state now that he is governor, but failed to do so. Yes, part of it is because the Milwaukee County council wouldn't support his economic plans; but, as executive, it was his job to find the common ground on which the council and he could stand. He didn't. He dug in his heels and went for the fiscally conservative position because that's what he saw as the politically advantageous spot. He chose to be a right-wing idealogue to appeal to right-wing idealogues.
Obama said, recently, when defending his tax compromise: "Now, if that’s the standard by which we are measuring success or core principles, then let’s face it, we will never get anything done. People will have the satisfaction of having a purist position and no victories for the American people. And we will be able to feel good about ourselves and sanctimonious about how pure our intentions are and how tough we are..."
I'm surprised you kept in going for this long. That guy was an absolute troll, just trying to rile people up....
Haha! Yeah, you're right - but as a someone who works in transportation planning and public finance, I just couldn't sit on the sidelines and let a cyber-bully control the dialogue and present such obtuse viewpoints as being mainstream. Walker's decision was not "one side of the political spectrum" in that it was a spiteful decision against a president that has been stigmatized by the right-wing propaganda machine, thus resulting in potential economic suicide for Wisconsin.
Is this an extreme prognosis? Well, not exactly considering the fact that we know that $810 million in direct discretionary funding from the federal government is a rather large grant that does not come around often. Additionally, the willingness and intentions of one of the leading train manufacturers in the world to establish operations in Milwaukee - one of the more economically depressed cities in the US that has hemorrhaged manufacturing jobs at an unsustainable level over the past thirty years - was one of the best job-creating prospects facing the state in a very long time. Who knows when the next time will be that the state can see such a high level of direct investment? Needless to say, tallying just how much economic opportunity was lost in refusing a direct connection between the heart of the state and the third largest city in the US - along with the second-busiest airport in the world - will be sobering.
We already know how the massive development of rail infrastructure changed Chicago's fortunes from being a trading post less prominent than Milwaukee and St Louis to being the logistical hub of the "midway" in the late 19th/early 20th Century. Let's just hope that Wisconsin doesn't get left behind as the macroeconomic paradigm shifts in this country.
Secondly, although next to my name it says I live in Japan (which I do) I'm only working here on a temporary work visa. I still claim residency in Wisconsin and still pay taxes in Wisconsin (which, I might add, are going to be three years of my life where I WILL NOT benefit directly from those taxes be they roads, rail, air, or anything else we pay taxes for). But I acknowledge that that was my decision to make.
Hey- I am just curious as to why you would do this? Why pay income tax to WI, when you don't live there? WI income tax is high (one of main reasons I left)
I have to believe there are legal ways to avoid this as you live out of the state/country.
Would it not make sense to establish residency in TX or Fl or some other low tax state for 3 yrs of your life?
I hope you are enjoying Japan. I always find it very interesting whenever I am there for work.
I don't think I could live there though.
Her taxes would have went up even MORE if the train was passed in Wisconsin. $10 Million a year just to operate it coming from Wisconsin tax payers... how would you expect Wisconsin to ever get out of debt after that?
Her taxes would have went up even MORE if the train was passed in Wisconsin. $10 Million a year just to operate it coming from Wisconsin tax payers... how would you expect Wisconsin to ever get out of debt after that?
First of all, Wisconsin cannot operate on a deficit according to state law. Any debt that exists on the transportation side is from capital projects, such as road widenings, new roads, etc. - which are financed by bonds that are retired with scheduled payments. Currently, Wisconsin DOT maintains a low level of bond debt compared to other states.
Second of all, the estimated operating cost would have been $7.5 million annually, of which 90% was to be matched by the Federal government, as it is on the existing portion of the Hiawatha line to Chicago. The remaining $750,000 would be the state's responsibility, which is hardly staggering considering the fact that the state's annual transportation budget is $2.5 billion. If you can't find a way to come up with a such a paltry sum, then you have no business being elected to office - none whatsoever.
Additionally, a portion of this operating sum would have been covered by ticket sales, which is a major advantage to highways - none of which are tolled in Wisconsin. If Walker was so concerned, as he said he was, then why not explore other revenue generating measures - like finding a concessionaire to operate retail concessions at stations or take Madison up on its offer to provide a portion of the operating funds.
Last, but not least, unlike roads - the operating costs generated by trains can be more easily managed than they can for roads in that you can adjust service and rail car configuration according to demand. Something that can't be done with roads.
Connecting one of the most economically dynamic areas of the state with the nation's third largest city would have had the potential to bring investment, jobs, and talent to the state - as well as provide an alternative to enhance mobility in the region (try leaving or arriving in Chicago by auto at rush hour on a Friday evening).
As far as I'm concerned, Walker's actions amounted to the most irresponsible and reckless behavior that I have ever seen from a governor. The billions of dollars in missed economic opportunity will affect the state for decades to come.
Hey want to add something to this discussion or just be a dumbass making snide comments? if you have nothing to add just forget about it and move one little ute
I'll add something. Walker is going to take your state into poverty not prosperity!
Her taxes would have went up even MORE if the train was passed in Wisconsin. $10 Million a year just to operate it coming from Wisconsin tax payers... how would you expect Wisconsin to ever get out of debt after that?
Not even close! You governor elect either cannot do basic math or he lied to you.
Quote:
Cari Anne Renlund, executive assistant to state Transportation Secretary Frank Busalacchi, estimated it would cost $7.5 million annually to operate the Madison-to-Milwaukee line; the state expects the federal government would pick up 90 percent of the cost, leaving Wisconsin to pay $750,000.
Hey- I am just curious as to why you would do this? Why pay income tax to WI, when you don't live there? WI income tax is high (one of main reasons I left)
I have to believe there are legal ways to avoid this as you live out of the state/country.
Would it not make sense to establish residency in TX or Fl or some other low tax state for 3 yrs of your life?
I hope you are enjoying Japan. I always find it very interesting whenever I am there for work.
I don't think I could live there though.
I, and all other Americans, am forgiven $80,000 of state and federal income taxes earned abroad. I worked in Spain before this job so, although I won't hit the ceiling during this tax period, I will in the next. I have never lived in another state and have no idea how to change my residency. Plus, I would feel like I'm cheating if I switch just to pay lower taxes, especially since I plan to move back to WI after I return to the states...at least until I move to wherever I choose my Masters University to be.
Japan is excellent. I'm teaching English at 3 high schools. Next week is the beginning of winter vacation so we had Christmas parties at all of my schools (expensive, but worth it). I almost lost it to Chestnuts Roasting on an Open Fire though. It's weird spending the holidays in a country that's only conception of Christmas is a drinking party time.
I recommend moving abroad for a while though. It lends you perspective, especially when you see people drawing an extremely fine line between different groups of people in the US. You begin to realize how rediculous it is. ありがとございます！！！
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
).
). But I acknowledge that that was my decision to make.
