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Old 04-01-2014, 10:37 AM
 
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Heil, the company which makes large truck trailers, moved out of Milwaukee years ago to Chattanooga, TN.
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Old 04-01-2014, 10:39 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ram2 View Post
Heil, the company which makes large truck trailers, moved out of Milwaukee years ago to Chattanooga, TN.

Ok. I don't know that field at all. Did the pay a lower wage in TN than they did when in WI? Or is it the same?
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Old 04-01-2014, 11:49 AM
 
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Originally Posted by timberline742 View Post
How do the wages compare?
depends upon the vocation I bet. Generally, wages are less in the rural areas than they are in urban areas, less in the south than they are in the north.

So it would probably be fair to say someone in a rural northern area makes the same amount of someone living in the south.

And you hit upon something else--people that are retiring are leaving wi. even the wi teachers union recommended this. Once their money is made, now they get checks, so their checks will go further in non high tax, northern areas. what this translates into is the money is generated (working people taxed) in wi, then sent to texas, arizona, tenn to people and spent there. what this does is make one economic area less wealthy and at the same time, increases the wealth of another. i'm sure you can guess which is which.
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Old 04-01-2014, 12:03 PM
 
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That's fine. Last thing northern states should do is try to compete in the race to the bottom to lower educational standards and spending, lower services, and lower wages.

Of course, I've only know three retired couples that left Wisconsin. Two came back within five years. Not scientific of course, but quality of life counts for a lot. Having lived in the South for awhile, I can say I'll never retire there, if I can retire.
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Old 04-01-2014, 12:07 PM
 
223 posts, read 304,258 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milt14 View Post
Yup, "Fact is" you are so willing to attack my post that you seemed to miss the word "Generally" I put in there for lifecycles. This means there are exceptions, but GENERALLY, young people move to the urban areas, then work for a while, then later, they move out for a better quality of life for them and their kids. A large part of that is they want to raise their children in a better, safer environment.
This should not be news to anyone.

No. This lifecycle trend has been going on for a very long time.
Except car ownership and birth rates are at the lowest they've been since the Great Depression, and transit ridership is at its highest since then. Is it reasonable to assume that SOME of the young adults who are currently in cities will eventually move to the suburbs? Absolutely. But more people than ever are foregoing kids, choosing urban and non-traditional lifestyles. A lot of empty nesters are also moving from the suburbs into urban condos. Stop pretending this isn't the case just because it doesn't suit your agenda.

Quote:
Originally Posted by milt14 View Post
People that stay in cities are as small population of 'normal' people, artists, gays, and even some leftists, etc. This is how housing cycles.
So now artists, gays, and "leftists" aren't "normal people?" Cute.

Going by the latest election results, at least 48% of Wisconsin falls into one of those categories… not exactly a fringe minority. And even if it were, what does it matter? Do you think minorities deserve to be treated as second-class citizens or something?


Quote:
Originally Posted by milt14 View Post
Speaking of arrogance, why do you then go on to speak for what "people" are recognizing and how they emotionally feel? I guess you must be one of those leftists that want to stay in a city in order to stop global cooling/warming/weather and feel validated. Fine, no problem as that's what you want.
LOL, when have I EVER said anything about environmental concerns? Because I can promise you that's not even on my list of reasons for why I don't want to live in the suburbs. Stop making presumptions about everyone who disagrees with you… it's disingenuous and all types of annoying.


Quote:
Originally Posted by milt14 View Post
I'm glad you went to riverside university high school. you are a fortunate person to have lived in that district so you can go to that school. Now that gov. walker has a program that allows "open enrollment" for public schools, maybe other people less fortunate could also attend that school. Wasn't it being an affiliate of uwm that turned it from an urban dump into a magnet school? (west is the same w/uw madison, btw).

You have lived a privleged life in milwaukee.
So now I've lived a privileged live based solely on the fact that I went to a high school that isn't terrible? What happened to Milwaukee being nothing but gangs and drugs and welfare mothers? How could I be privileged if I came from somewhere so terrible and scary?

Look, either people like me are proof that Milwaukee is a place with a lot to offer young people and is worth investing in; or Milwaukee is a blighted hell hole with few redeeming qualities (although I'll be right here to explain why you're wrong). But choose once and for all… you don't get to have it both ways.

Oh, and FYI… I spent a portion of my childhood homeless, and that's not even the worst thing that's ever happened to me. I wouldn't turn this into a pissing contest about privilege if I were you, because odds are you've led a much more privileged life than I ever have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by milt14 View Post
Now what about the rest of the population there?
So what of all the drunks, racists, woman-beaters, meth addicts and pill poppers where you live? Just because things in a community aren't Leave It To Beaver-perfect doesn't mean you bulldoze the whole damn place into the nearest lake. It's called not being an extremist… you should try it sometime.

Last edited by MKEastsider; 04-01-2014 at 12:19 PM..
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Old 04-01-2014, 12:15 PM
 
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I caught that, big LOL at artists, gays and leftists (I've lived in Madison and Burlington VT, as well as Cambridge MA, and I can count the number of real leftists I've met on both hands) aren't "normal" people. What the heck are the normal people then?
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Old 04-01-2014, 12:16 PM
 
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Originally Posted by northbound74 View Post
All I was implying is that Milwaukee has it's own issues with racism, probably no better or worse than towns up north, so I doubt the racism up north is what kept African-Americans from moving up there since they were willing to move to Milwaukee.

You are comparing Wisconsin to Illinois, a state more than double it's size, and Michigan, almost double it's size. Both Have many more old industrial larger cities to choose from. You are comparing small towns like Eau Claire and Manitowoc to much larger cities. A more accurate comparison would be Racine, Kenosha, etc.
As for Oshkosh and Appleton? Considering the demographics of Minnesota, the Upper Peninsula, the Dakotas, could it be that black people during the Great Migration just never made it up that far?
Consider this: African Americans make up roughly 13% of the entire U.S. population. Mostly, they were brought into the southeastern portions of this country which is where they still have their highest percentages.
It seems to me like some people try to make it out that if every city and town in other parts of the country aren't at least 13% black (preferably more just to be safe from racial accusations), that they are racist Sundown towns that have purposefully kept black people from moving there.
I'll grant you that Maintowoc is small, but it's not that much smaller than Battle Creek and Saginaw, which both have significant black populations; and Eau Claire is bigger than both of them. And if the Fox Valley was "too far north" for migrant black workers, then how did they make their way up to Lansing and the Sagniaw Valley on the other side of the lake?

Look, you sound like a more reasonable person than a lot of the people in this thread. Tell me…

Do you think it's just a coincidence that Wisconsin's black male incarceration rate is twice the national average, and a third higher than the state with the next largest rate?

Do you think it's just a coincidence that Milwaukee, one of the most diverse urban centers in the US, is surrounded by three counties that are over 95% white?

Do you think that it's a coincidence that Milwaukee-Waukesha-West Allis is the most segregated MSA anywhere in the country; even though segregation in the City of Milwaukee itself has been trending downward for at least the last two census cycles?

Do you think it's a coincidence that literally every story about urban crime at JSOnline is followed with an avalanche of comments claiming black people and the urban poor are culturally inferior?

I get that it's not comfortable to think about, but as a proud Wisconsinite, I'm sick and tired of Wisconsin leading the nation in so many unflattering statistics regarding race relations. The only way that's ever going to change is by first admitting that there's a very real problem with racial prejudice throughout EVERY part of our state. It's about time we stop pretending race relations are just a Milwaukee problem, and then pointing fingers at Milwaukee for not solving the problem entirely on its own.
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Old 04-01-2014, 12:29 PM
 
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The one negative thing I tell people about Wisconsin is that indeed, it is a bit of a police state. I'm white and pretty clean cut, and most of my friends were, but we had problems. I see more police cars in a day when I'm in Wisconsin than most weeks in bigger cities.
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Old 04-01-2014, 12:30 PM
 
223 posts, read 304,258 times
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Originally Posted by earthlyfather View Post
Mk, I think there is plenty of arrogance to go around on both sides. A counterweight to Milt's alleged arrogance of growing up to her viewpoint, would be your arrogance that suburbia is unsustainable, that the world will evolve to your vision of the future. The disarmingly honest truth is somewhere between you and Milt.
Please show me where I claimed that "the world will evolve to my vision of the future." All I said was that fewer people than ever desire suburban lifestyles. If someone wants to live in the suburbs, more power to them, but more people than at any time since before WWII are moving to our cities. That's not my opinion, that's just a fact.
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Old 04-01-2014, 12:36 PM
 
223 posts, read 304,258 times
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Originally Posted by timberline742 View Post
The one negative thing I tell people about Wisconsin is that indeed, it is a bit of a police state. I'm white and pretty clean cut, and most of my friends were, but we had problems. I see more police cars in a day when I'm in Wisconsin than most weeks in bigger cities.
A couple years ago, I was in Calumet County for a few months and found out that the local police department actually had a drug task force. This was a town of 3,000 people so far in the middle of nowhere that Manitowoc was considered the nearest "big city."

Even if you take race out of the equation, I think it's clear that Wisconsin has a huge problem with paranoia and hysteria, which leads to the police state environment that you're describing.
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