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Old 03-30-2014, 10:41 AM
 
Location: Quimper Peninsula
1,981 posts, read 2,520,556 times
Reputation: 1749

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Milt, Milt Milt..

It is fun to bicker with you..

Not going to get fancy with multi quote, cause I don't know how to do that.. ha! Besides, the OP's question is do wisconsin taxes affect your quality of life? So you and I are comparing Texas a low tax state with what I am arguing a low quality of life, to Wisconsin a high tax state, with what I am arguing a high quality of life...

I suppose it all depends on what one values.... Me I sure do like middle class folks, it really saddens me to see poor desperate people, and sickens me to see filthy wealth being flaunted.... Guess I spent too many years working for a Finnish company... Got brainwashed by all that functioning Socialism with safe cities, you can walk around in at midnight and a $100 bill on your forehead and not have to worry about being robbed..

To me Wisconsin is closer to that ideal than Texas... And yes I believe a lot of that has to do with taxes and the social safety net of the place.

I will not take your bait and get into comparing cities, this is not a thread about specific cities it is about taxes in a state, and how they effect the quality of life...

----

Gulf of Mexico.. Yep everything goes down river... Indeed it is America's toilet! Yum.... Great Seafood hey? Only going to get worse if you Texas folks manage to get rid of the EPA, to maximize your corporate keepers profits....

So you are claiming Fracking has no negative environmental impacts? Ever look at a gas flair image of North Dakota at night, they are burning off all the gas.. Yes Fracking is wastefull... But I suppose you do not believe flaring trillions of BTU's of fossil fuel energy to get to the more valuable oil, is perfectly fine for the environment.
Night shot of Bakken: (They are burning off as much energy as all of Wisconsin uses.)
https://www.ceres.org/industry-initi...res-from-space

Now not getting into city by city statistics...We are talking about states here not cities.... Texas has more per capita violent crime than Wisconsin.. This is a fact. It is also a fact Texas spends lots of money putting people in jail instead of having social programs to prevent them from ending up in jail.
Texas in the top 10 most violent states:
7. Texas | 24/7 Wall Street: The 10 Most Violent States | Comcast.net

Texas with the worst income equality in the country:
3. Texas | The States With The Worst Income Inequality | Comcast.net

Those are things that effect the common persons quality of life! Sorry, America went through its phase of the Wild West, where Corporate barons took what they wanted from the common man. Thank goodness we had folks like Teddy Roosevelt to bust up the monopolies and thugs that kept us little people little... Funny by today's standard, you would call Teddy (R) a Marxist or something...
What happened?

PS.. I said Austin, cause I knew that would get your goat... Even in Texas 40% of the population across the state thinks just as I do, and see's your viewpoint as the "wrong direction"... Plenty of fine folks across the great state of Texas that would like to see things more like they are in Wisconsin.. (At least like in a Pre-Walker Wisconsin. ..)

Oh, almost forgot roads...
Where do you think money for roads comes from? The tooth fairy? Yep, another one of those evil "socialist" programs our nation was built on...

Looks like Walker and his corporate buddies can not keep his fingers out of the pie though..

Follow the road your tax dollars take to politicos' pockets | Opinion | Wisconsin Gazette - Smart, independent and revealing. News, opinion and entertainment coverage

Funny sure seems to be a lot more pot holes in the roads since Walker got in office....
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Old 03-30-2014, 11:45 AM
 
3,326 posts, read 7,754,092 times
Reputation: 1973
Quality of life has more to do with culture than the amount of taxes you pay. Some people think culture and politics and quality of life go hand in hand automatically, but it's not that simple. Also, you have to consider that you think is ideal in terms of QOL, may be a nightmare for others.
Having also lived in Texas and Wisconsin (not sure why Texas is the goalpost for low tax states, but oh well) even my conservative self prefers Wisconsin.
It's a nice place, but not because of high taxes. Sure, they don't mind paying extra for some things. On a state level, different states have different cultures and priorities and that's all well and good. Taxes and regulations aren't horrible in and of themselves, but the extent to which they tax is what gets me. Seems absurdly high to the point of being counter-productive.
High taxes + high regulation makes life in Wisconsin more expensive in many ways than what you'd think a state like that should be. Everything costs more, and simple things that actually cost money to do in WI are free in other places. It's not coastal expensive, but high enough that wages for people like myself simply can't keep up with a simple, mid-level lifestyle. No car payments, no credit cards, no bad habits. Two income, both full-time, family living in a very modest neighborhood barely getting by. Some say "that's just modern day America". Well, yes, I suppose, but it is possible to make the exact same income, if not more, elsewhere, and be in an area where the COL is 75% of what it is in WI.
Now if wages in Wisconsin were higher, the higher taxes would not have bother me so much, because I liked it enough to have stayed there long-term. Staying there simply wasn't the wise thing to do considering jobs in our fields were scarce to begin with and the ones we had weren't cutting it.
So yes, taxes did indeed affect my quality of life. I pretty much had to move away to survive.
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Old 03-30-2014, 12:04 PM
 
Location: IN
20,855 posts, read 35,976,422 times
Reputation: 13304
So, where are you planning on moving to then? Most of the very low COL states are cheap for good reasons. Low tax or no income tax states have advantages if you work for an employer, but high property taxes, sales taxes, and fees often make up the difference. Climate is a big item for me as well as heat and humidity are horrible, and I don't know why I tolerated them for as long as I did further south.

Quote:
Originally Posted by northbound74 View Post
Quality of life has more to do with culture than the amount of taxes you pay. Some people think culture and politics and quality of life go hand in hand automatically, but it's not that simple. Also, you have to consider that you think is ideal in terms of QOL, may be a nightmare for others.
Having also lived in Texas and Wisconsin (not sure why Texas is the goalpost for low tax states, but oh well) even my conservative self prefers Wisconsin.
It's a nice place, but not because of high taxes. Sure, they don't mind paying extra for some things. On a state level, different states have different cultures and priorities and that's all well and good. Taxes and regulations aren't horrible in and of themselves, but the extent to which they tax is what gets me. Seems absurdly high to the point of being counter-productive.
High taxes + high regulation makes life in Wisconsin more expensive in many ways than what you'd think a state like that should be. Everything costs more, and simple things that actually cost money to do in WI are free in other places. It's not coastal expensive, but high enough that wages for people like myself simply can't keep up with a simple, mid-level lifestyle. No car payments, no credit cards, no bad habits. Two income, both full-time, family living in a very modest neighborhood barely getting by. Some say "that's just modern day America". Well, yes, I suppose, but it is possible to make the exact same income, if not more, elsewhere, and be in an area where the COL is 75% of what it is in WI.
Now if wages in Wisconsin were higher, the higher taxes would not have bother me so much, because I liked it enough to have stayed there long-term. Staying there simply wasn't the wise thing to do considering jobs in our fields were scarce to begin with and the ones we had weren't cutting it.
So yes, taxes did indeed affect my quality of life. I pretty much had to move away to survive.
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Old 03-30-2014, 12:16 PM
 
432 posts, read 446,257 times
Reputation: 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueTimbers View Post
It is fun to bicker with you..
not bickering on my end at all. this topic is does wisconsin's tax rates affect your quality of life.
we are talking about it, that's all. and i do break things out when someone states multiple things in an effort to support their belief/point. quoting president reagan, "Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so."

so i'm not only helping you, but the readers thinking of moving to wi or moving out of wi.

Quote:
Me I sure do like middle class folks
that is nice. the biggest threat to the middle class is inflation (govt spending), illegal immigration (job competition and govt spending) and the offshoring of jobs like what mary burke's dad with his company, trek bicycles. so the middle class is shrinking. also, there's the protected class of upper middle/upper class government workers that are also causing increasing taxes upon the middle class, the people that can least afford it.

Quote:
I believe a lot of that has to do with taxes and the social safety net of the place.
then chicago should be an ideal place. or california. yet both places are continually faced with crippling government deficits,very high crime rates and an exodus of people and job creators.

Quote:
I will not [address] comparing cities, this is not a thread about specific cities it is about taxes in a state, and how they effect the quality of life...
yet different states have different tax rates, different economic bases, different social services.
people can compare countries to countries, region to region, state to state like we are, and also, city to city. the only reasons not to is if that analysis is if the inputs do not support your position.

Quote:
Gulf of Mexico.. Yep everything goes down river... Indeed it is America's toilet!
silly and condescending thing to say. but if you care, there's a reason why I chose to move to north central wisconsin and not southern wisconsin--the bodies of water are very polluted down there, crime is very high, plus it's a pretty boring looking place and a lot of the people in dane county are pretty angry and intolerant. We like it up north.

Quote:
So you are claiming Fracking has no negative environmental impacts? Ever look at a gas flair image of North Dakota at night, they are burning off all the gas
I think you meant 'flare'. gas has been burned off at the head for a long time for safety reasons and they were after crude (the oil). fracking enabled them to just release the gas and capture that for use in energy. And it's very efficient and very clean burning. Natural gas is the key to our, and the worlds energy future.

Once the well is setup, they don't burn it off as that's energy wasted. There's pumping wells (oil) and natural gas wells. Here's what a gas well looks like:




Quote:
Now not getting into city by city statistics...We are talking about states here not cities....
You cannot do that. sorry. if you could and it'd be valid, then you should compare violent crime in new hampshire with florida. but we know that's silly.
most violent crime and other crime problems happen in urban areas. now we're talking about demographic breakdown and groups relative to the population of the whole state. wisconsin is a very white, rural oriented state. it only has one city--milwaukee and that's an agreed upon third world type cesspool of crime and corruption.
Using new hampshire vs. florida again, the higher the percentage of minority population, the higher the crime rates will be (and poverty, teenage mothers, etc). It's simple demographics, sociology 101.

if you take milwaukee out of WI's states, we'd be a very nice place to live statistically.

Quote:
Texas with the worst income equality in the country:
that is another simple thing if one thinks about it honesty.
there are more illegals in texas than in wi. there are also more blacks in texas than wi. and illegals are directly competing with blacks for jobs, thus lowering black wages furthers.

this stuff isn't that hard. this is pretty simple stuff..

Quote:
PS.. I said Austin, cause I knew that would get your goat.
no idea where you thought that. I used to live in madison and also austin. you do think a lot of things that aren't true.
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Old 03-30-2014, 12:22 PM
 
3,326 posts, read 7,754,092 times
Reputation: 1973
I thought Milwaukee to be above average for a larger city. Perhaps that's more of a commentary on how bad our cities are, but I liked it for the most part.
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Old 03-30-2014, 12:33 PM
 
3,326 posts, read 7,754,092 times
Reputation: 1973
Quote:
Originally Posted by GraniteStater View Post
So, where are you planning on moving to then? Most of the very low COL states are cheap for good reasons. Low tax or no income tax states have advantages if you work for an employer, but high property taxes, sales taxes, and fees often make up the difference. Climate is a big item for me as well as heat and humidity are horrible, and I don't know why I tolerated them for as long as I did further south.
Most states I've lived in have had very low COL, especially when compared to WI. I'm used to it and the supposed cut in quality of life is something I can live with.
Also, it highly depends on the comparative state as to whether or not other taxes and fees make up the difference.
There's some poster on here that keeps saying it's a wash, but they're comparing it to Oregon or Washington state or some such place.... well, yeah, of course that's their experience. I'm not making fun or anything, but my paradigm is quite different.
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Old 03-30-2014, 01:21 PM
 
432 posts, read 446,257 times
Reputation: 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by northbound74 View Post
Quality of life has more to do with culture than the amount of taxes you pay.
Yup, I moved to wi from a low tax, mostly public land state. I chose to move to wi because:
1. It was headed in the 'right' direction politically, therefore economically and individually.
2. Place where I moved from turned sharply left, so it was like IL where the whole state was ran out of one large city.
3. more people looked like me and shared my beliefs/worldview (central/northern wi).
4. relatedly, grew weary of the crime and violence.
5. relatedly, less illegals (up north), so could find jobs in the trades.
6. better, more accessible hunting and fishing here.


Quote:
(not sure why Texas is the goalpost for low tax states, but oh well)
people from the left have made texas out to be the source of all evil, so it's a strawman they then can attack rather than defend their own idealogy/beliefs. been modus operandi since about 2002.

Quote:
High taxes + high regulation makes life in Wisconsin more expensive in many ways than what you'd think a state like that should be. Everything costs more
As you know, wages are lower, but that's part of the package. Some things are cheaper, like housing and food. However, you can buy a house in milwaukee for 10K...but you'd be a fool to do so.

You voted with your feet, as I did, and as many others have and are doing. There's quite a movement away from the urban areas into the smaller towns in an effort to get away from what is going on in the urban areas.
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Old 03-30-2014, 02:46 PM
 
Location: IN
20,855 posts, read 35,976,422 times
Reputation: 13304
Quote:
Originally Posted by northbound74 View Post
Most states I've lived in have had very low COL, especially when compared to WI. I'm used to it and the supposed cut in quality of life is something I can live with.
Also, it highly depends on the comparative state as to whether or not other taxes and fees make up the difference.
There's some poster on here that keeps saying it's a wash, but they're comparing it to Oregon or Washington state or some such place.... well, yeah, of course that's their experience. I'm not making fun or anything, but my paradigm is quite different.
Washington state does not have an income tax.
Oregon does not have a sales tax.
So, Clark County, WA would be a good place to live as it would be advantageous in terms of taxes.

Seattle metro area continues to experience strong economic conditions with very high housing prices and increasing property taxes..
Oregon is a very rural state outside of Portland and has a more stagnant to slow growing economy by comparison..
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Old 03-30-2014, 06:55 PM
 
Location: Quimper Peninsula
1,981 posts, read 2,520,556 times
Reputation: 1749
Granite... Don't remind me... Yes from a tax perspective Washington is very bad for me... I am a self employed farmer... No income tax and high property tax sting. Not the best for a low income fellow that owns lots of land.

But I walk the talk... More to a quality life than money..

---
Milt,
Sorry I can not take time to counter all your counter points... Just gotta say Reagan! It's those "Trickle down economics" that contributes to the world of hurt the working man in the USA is in.

It's the Inequality, Stupid | Mother Jones

---

Anyway off to haul a load of equipment out to the left coast..
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Old 03-30-2014, 08:32 PM
 
223 posts, read 304,341 times
Reputation: 491
Quote:
Originally Posted by milt14 View Post
As you know, wages are lower, but that's part of the package. Some things are cheaper, like housing and food. However, you can buy a house in milwaukee for 10K...but you'd be a fool to do so.

You voted with your feet, as I did, and as many others have and are doing. There's quite a movement away from the urban areas into the smaller towns in an effort to get away from what is going on in the urban areas.
LMAO!!!!

Seriously? Milwaukee is growing for the first time in five decades thanks to all of the urban renewal its experienced over the past 10-15 years, and has been glowingly written about in the New York Times and Atlantic Monthly. Creative young people (the kinds who take risks, start businesses, and add to the quality of life) love it in Milwaukee. The only people who are moving to small towns are bitter baby boomers who can't deal with change and racists who don't want to be bothered with anyone who's not just like them, and frankly, Milwaukee can do without people like that in our city.

Stop mistaking your own personal biases for fact.
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