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Old 03-30-2014, 09:56 PM
 
432 posts, read 445,784 times
Reputation: 102

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKEastsider View Post
Milwaukee is growing for the first time in five decades
are you talking about the metropolitan area or the city of milwaukee? Places outside of the city of milwaukee are growing and prosperous, but not milwaukee itself.

I think I found the atlantic monthly article you are talking about.

Why These Midwest Millennials Are Choosing Milwaukee Over Chicago - Nona Willis Aronowitz - The Atlantic Cities

They are already in the midwest and they are millenials, so they're in the age bracket to still want to do the urban thing. Generally lifecycles are pretty predictable. And their choice of choosing milwaukee over chicago? that's a no brainer as chicago is going down the tubes rather rapidly.

Quote:
[from the link]
I witnessed a demonstration outside the mall, made up of mostly young, nonwhite fast food workers demanding $15 an hour and a union. Several balked at the characterizations of Milwaukee as cheap. ďMaybe if you donít have kids, and you went to school,Ē Kenneth Mack, a 27-year-old maintenance worker at McDonaldís, told me. ďI have a daughter to take care of, and my hours keep getting cut. Ten dollars an hour for rent, electricity, phone bills? Itís not a lot.Ē

So the upsides of Milwaukee arenít always accessible to everyone, though the cityís deep-seated culture of organized labor (if not in factories anymore, then in chain stores) is still palpable.
the income distribution in milwaukee is shaped like a barbell and younger folks going there opening up a gulten free coffee shop won't help anything but their contribution to the tax base. Look at how the city's politicians treat palermo's pizza...a business that stays in milwaukee and employs people, pays taxes, etc.

Median household income dropped by 22% from 1999-2010
What's Wrong With Milwaukee in Seven Charts | Blog, Smart Charts | BillMoyers.com

In almost no large metropolitan area is there a greater difference in black and white income. In few if any large metro areas is poverty as highly concentrated within the major city - 73% of the area's poor live in Milwaukee proper.

A Time to Build | Milwaukee's deep racial, economic divisions are challenges to rebirth - JSOnline

The education of the kids stuck in milwaukee, even the minority of the minorities that graduate, is terrible.

And what do the 'leaders' put forth to address milwaukee's problems? A two mile $100 million trolley and gwen moore making an idiot of herself, not to mention spending all their time trying to intimidate conservatives and Gov Walker.


Quote:
The only people who are moving to small towns are bitter baby boomers who can't deal with change and racists who don't want to be bothered with anyone who's not just like them
You just keep thinking that, screaming and hollering at people, calling them names. Sounds like you would enjoy milwaukee...and of course madison.
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Old 03-30-2014, 10:34 PM
 
223 posts, read 303,726 times
Reputation: 491
Quote:
Originally Posted by milt14 View Post
are you talking about the metropolitan area or the city of milwaukee? Places outside of the city of milwaukee are growing and prosperous, but not milwaukee itself.
LOL! Been to the Third Ward lately? Or Bay View? Or Lake Drive? Or Brady? Or Washington Heights? Or Sherman Park? Let me guess... you live out in the boonies and haven't actually been to Milwaukee for anything but maybe a Brewer game or Summerfest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by milt14 View Post
I think I found the atlantic monthly article you are talking about.

Why These Midwest Millennials Are Choosing Milwaukee Over Chicago - Nona Willis Aronowitz - The Atlantic Cities

They are already in the midwest and they are millenials, so they're in the age bracket to still want to do the urban thing. Generally lifecycles are pretty predictable.
Pretty arrogant of you to assume that people just need to "grow up" and they'll do things exactly as you do them, don't you think? Fact is, people are starting to recognize how unsustainable and unfulfilling suburban life is. And with gas prices what they are now... which probably won't go back down anytime soon... it makes much more sense to be in the city.

Quote:
Originally Posted by milt14 View Post
the income distribution in milwaukee is shaped like a barbell and younger folks going there opening up a gulten free coffee shop won't help anything but their contribution to the tax base.
Not sure what your point is, but Milwaukee is transitioning to a city that primarily serves a younger population from a city that has primarily served an older one for the past few decades. Besides, what sense would it make trying to make Milwaukee more appealing to people in Waukesha County who don't want to live in an urban environment anyway?

Quote:
Originally Posted by milt14 View Post
Look at how the city's politicians treat palermo's pizza...a business that stays in milwaukee and employs people, pays taxes, etc.
How DARE Milwaukee's politicians not let the fact that a business pays taxes absolve them from treating their workers like human beings!

Quote:
Originally Posted by milt14 View Post
Median household income dropped by 22% from 1999-2010
What's Wrong With Milwaukee in Seven Charts | Blog, Smart Charts | BillMoyers.com

In almost no large metropolitan area is there a greater difference in black and white income. In few if any large metro areas is poverty as highly concentrated within the major city - 73% of the area's poor live in Milwaukee proper.

A Time to Build | Milwaukee's deep racial, economic divisions are challenges to rebirth - JSOnline

The education of the kids stuck in milwaukee, even the minority of the minorities that graduate, is terrible.
Again, no one said Milwaukee was perfect. I could paint just as bleak a picture of where you live if I wanted to talk about a lack of culture, bigotry, heroin addiction, meth, alcoholism, obesity, diabetes, rigidity, closed-mindedness and sheltered people.

I also have a huge problem with outstaters pointing the finger at Milwaukee when it comes to race relations when Wisconsin is pretty much wall-to-wall white outside of Milwaukee. Not all of Michigan's black population lives in Detroit, not all of Illinois' black population lives in Chicago, yet aside from some small pockets in Racine, Beloit, and Madison, almost all of Wisconsin's black population lives in the City of Milwaukee.... why is that?

Lastly, regarding education, I'm a MPS product, and my high school (Riverside) consistently ranks amongst the best public schools in Wisconsin. In fact, it wasn't too long ago that another MPS school (Rufus King) was named the best public school in Wisconsin by Newsweek. Contrary to popular belief, there are plenty of great magnet programs in MPS for kids who's parents actually care enough to be involved in their education.

Quote:
Originally Posted by milt14 View Post
And what do the 'leaders' put forth to address milwaukee's problems? A two mile $100 million trolley and gwen moore making an idiot of herself, not to mention spending all their time trying to intimidate conservatives and Gov Walker.
Again, it's called BUILDING FOR THE FUTURE. Just because you and the sockpuppets in Madison might be too old and/or self-centered to see the point of building a rail system that will eventually serve the entire city doesn't make it a bad idea. Milwaukee is notoriously undeserved by public transit and is currently the densest city in the nation without a rail system. This is unacceptable for a city that needs to do whatever it can to retain the young people who are making the quality of life here greater than its been in almost half a century.

But again, because it involves tax dollars and doesn't benefit you personally, it's "wasteful."

Quote:
Originally Posted by milt14 View Post
You just keep thinking that, screaming and hollering at people, calling them names. Sounds like you would enjoy milwaukee...and of course madison.
You're the one painting a picture of Milwaukee based on little more than white hysteria and superstition. Now when those of us who actually live here are fighting back, you want to get all whiny and judgmental. Sorry, you don't get to have it both ways!

Last edited by MKEastsider; 03-30-2014 at 10:58 PM..
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Old 03-30-2014, 11:00 PM
 
3,326 posts, read 7,747,699 times
Reputation: 1967
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKEastsider View Post
I could paint just as bleak a picture of where you live if I wanted to talk about a lack of culture, bigotry, heroin addiction, meth, alcoholism, obesity, diabetes, rigidity, closed-mindedness and sheltered people.

I also have a huge problem with outstaters pointing the finger at Milwaukee when it comes to race relations when Wisconsin is pretty much wall-to-wall white outside of Milwaukee. Not all of Michigan's black population lives in Detroit, not all of Illinois' black population lives in Chicago, yet aside from some small pockets in Racine, Beloit, and Madison, almost all of Wisconsin's black population lives in the City of Milwaukee.... why is that?
Disclaimer: I like Milwaukee.
Problem with first paragraph above is that it doesn't not describe Milwaukee to a degree... forgive the double negative.

Second paragraph, I'll take a shot at answering that question: because Milwaukee, Racine, Beloit, Kenosha, Green Bay... are where most black people who relocated to Wisconsin moved to when coming up north to take factory jobs.
Simply, they went where the factories were. The vast majority of black people outside of the south do not live in rural areas. The south is where most of them were originally located in this country, and when they left, they left for jobs. Factory jobs. Up north. They didn't go up there to start farms in the countryside.
They also didn't move to Milwaukee because it's such a racially tolerant town. Notice the mention in numerous threads, usually by liberals, lamenting on how racist and racially segregated Milwaukee is.

The demographics of Illinois and Michigan are similar. Most African-Americans live in somewhat larger industrial cities, not small towns or the countryside.
Like half my family from the south, they went up north looking for work back when the work was up north.
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Old 03-31-2014, 12:35 AM
 
223 posts, read 303,726 times
Reputation: 491
Quote:
Originally Posted by northbound74 View Post
Disclaimer: I like Milwaukee.
Problem with first paragraph above is that it doesn't not describe Milwaukee to a degree... forgive the double negative.
Sure, if you want to go by outdated stereotypes.

Again, I never said Milwaukee was perfect. I just have a problem with the fact that so many people on forums like this want to hold Milwaukee to a standard that would be considered elitist if it were applied to the towns up north.

Quote:
Originally Posted by northbound74 View Post
Second paragraph, I'll take a shot at answering that question: because Milwaukee, Racine, Beloit, Kenosha, Green Bay... are where most black people who relocated to Wisconsin moved to when coming up north to take factory jobs.
Simply, they went where the factories were. The vast majority of black people outside of the south do not live in rural areas. The south is where most of them were originally located in this country, and when they left, they left for jobs. Factory jobs. Up north. They didn't go up there to start farms in the countryside.


They also didn't move to Milwaukee because it's such a racially tolerant town. Notice the mention in numerous threads, usually by liberals, lamenting on how racist and racially segregated Milwaukee is.

The demographics of Illinois and Michigan are similar. Most African-Americans live in somewhat larger industrial cities, not small towns or the countryside.
Like half my family from the south, they went up north looking for work back when the work was up north.
First of all, don't put words in my mouth... I never claimed Milwaukee was some sort of racial utopia; only that it's possible to find mixed neighborhoods and cultivate a diverse social circle of like-minded people in Milwaukee as long as those things are important to you. Do I think those things are important to enough people here? Probably not. But good luck trying the same anywhere else in Wisconsin... even in Madison.

Secondly, you act like the Northern 2/3rds of Wisconsin didn't have factories or industry. I find it a little odd that you can find people of color in towns of all sizes in all different parts of Michigan (Sagniaw, Flint, Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, Battle Creek, Lansing, etc.). Same with Illinois (Peoria, Rockford, Joliet, East St. Louis, Springfield, etc.). So where are all the black people in Eau Claire? In Sheboygan? In Manitowoc? In Oshkosh? In Appleton? In Green Bay? None of these towns is more than 3.5% black, and all but Green Bay are over 85% white. You'd think that if Milwaukee were such a terrible place for black people that you'd find its black population dispersing throughout the rest of the state, but that still hasn't happened after 50+ years... why not?

Again, no one ever said Milwaukee didn't have its problems, but the rest of Wisconsin isn't exactly in a position to call Milwaukee out regarding race relations. Especially when so much of this state (especially the part of the state that currently controls Madison) was built by white flight.
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Old 03-31-2014, 06:07 AM
 
3,326 posts, read 7,747,699 times
Reputation: 1967
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKEastsider View Post
Sure, if you want to go by outdated stereotypes.

Again, I never said Milwaukee was perfect. I just have a problem with the fact that so many people on forums like this want to hold Milwaukee to a standard that would be considered elitist if it were applied to the towns up north.
All I was implying is that Milwaukee has it's own issues with racism, probably no better or worse than towns up north, so I doubt the racism up north is what kept African-Americans from moving up there since they were willing to move to Milwaukee.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MKEastsider View Post
First of all, don't put words in my mouth... I never claimed Milwaukee was some sort of racial utopia; only that it's possible to find mixed neighborhoods and cultivate a diverse social circle of like-minded people in Milwaukee as long as those things are important to you. Do I think those things are important to enough people here? Probably not. But good luck trying the same anywhere else in Wisconsin... even in Madison.

Secondly, you act like the Northern 2/3rds of Wisconsin didn't have factories or industry. I find it a little odd that you can find people of color in towns of all sizes in all different parts of Michigan (Sagniaw, Flint, Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, Battle Creek, Lansing, etc.). Same with Illinois (Peoria, Rockford, Joliet, East St. Louis, Springfield, etc.). So where are all the black people in Eau Claire? In Sheboygan? In Manitowoc? In Oshkosh? In Appleton? In Green Bay? None of these towns is more than 3.5% black, and all but Green Bay are over 85% white. You'd think that if Milwaukee were such a terrible place for black people that you'd find its black population dispersing throughout the rest of the state, but that still hasn't happened after 50+ years... why not?

Again, no one ever said Milwaukee didn't have its problems, but the rest of Wisconsin isn't exactly in a position to call Milwaukee out regarding race relations. Especially when so much of this state (especially the part of the state that currently controls Madison) was built by white flight.
You are comparing Wisconsin to Illinois, a state more than double it's size, and Michigan, almost double it's size. Both Have many more old industrial larger cities to choose from. You are comparing small towns like Eau Claire and Manitowoc to much larger cities. A more accurate comparison would be Racine, Kenosha, etc.
As for Oshkosh and Appleton? Considering the demographics of Minnesota, the Upper Peninsula, the Dakotas, could it be that black people during the Great Migration just never made it up that far?
Consider this: African Americans make up roughly 13% of the entire U.S. population. Mostly, they were brought into the southeastern portions of this country which is where they still have their highest percentages.
It seems to me like some people try to make it out that if every city and town in other parts of the country aren't at least 13% black (preferably more just to be safe from racial accusations), that they are racist Sundown towns that have purposefully kept black people from moving there.
African Americans still make up a low percentage of the overall population. You just aren't going to find places that have high percentages everywhere.
And when you take into account U.S. migration patterns and birth rates for the last 50-60 years, it's very doubtful that the racial makeup of blacks and whites in Wisconsin is ever going to change in our lifetime.



And yes, if you don't play your cards right or depending on how you view things, taxes in Wisconsin can indeed affect your quality of life.
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Old 03-31-2014, 06:15 AM
 
Location: Wisconsin
7,215 posts, read 7,906,740 times
Reputation: 7740
Quote:
Originally Posted by milt14 View Post
A lot less than they should be in their union contracts. There's no reason why a grade school teacher should be making 100K for 8 months of work. Or a high school gym teacher. Or.....

Teachers have turned into an economic elite, true 1 percenters, making disproportionally more than the communities they serve....and pays them through paying their property taxes. One of the tricks they realized is to get a masters, then their pay takes a big bump up, but it's not needed for their profession.

And this isn't even counting the double dippers, the ones that retired before Gov. Walkers reforms hit, then went back to their same job, drawing a pension and a new check for working their same job at their same desk......
LOL...your post is a total fail. I know tons of public teachers here in Wisconsin, and zero are making anywhere close to $100K/year.

Just a bunch of anti-education malarkey in your post. I won't bother to comment further. It's the same anti-teacher BS that's been refuted time and again.
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Old 03-31-2014, 09:27 AM
 
432 posts, read 445,784 times
Reputation: 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKEastsider View Post
Pretty arrogant of you to assume that people just need to "grow up" and they'll do things exactly as you do them, don't you think? Fact is,
Yup, "Fact is" you are so willing to attack my post that you seemed to miss the word "Generally" I put in there for lifecycles. This means there are exceptions, but GENERALLY, young people move to the urban areas, then work for a while, then later, they move out for a better quality of life for them and their kids. A large part of that is they want to raise their children in a better, safer environment.
This should not be news to anyone.

People that stay in cities are as small population of 'normal' people, artists, gays, and even some leftists, etc. This is how housing cycles.

Quote:
Pretty arrogant of you to assume that people just need to "grow up" and they'll do things exactly as you do them, don't you think?
No. This lifecycle trend has been going on for a very long time.

Quote:
Fact is, people are starting to recognize how unsustainable and unfulfilling suburban life is.
Speaking of arrogance, why do you then go on to speak for what "people" are recognizing and how they emotionally feel? I guess you must be one of those leftists that want to stay in a city in order to stop global cooling/warming/weather and feel validated. Fine, no problem as that's what you want.

Quote:
And with gas prices what they are now... which probably won't go back down anytime soon... it makes much more sense to be in the city.
why? if the jobs are in the suburbs? which brings me to another group of people that 'choose' to live in cities--government workers. Most of the CBDs (central business districts) are little more than government buildings and the retail outlets to cater to them.

And even a lot of (older, non gay/leftist) government workers would move out if there's not a residency rule, forcing govt workers to stay in the city. Democrat's fight this as most people that can (have money) leave their cities:
Milwaukee County judge voids City of Milwaukee residency rule


Quote:
How DARE Milwaukee's politicians not let the fact that a business pays taxes absolve them from treating their workers like human beings!
I agree and would do everything I could to help the democrat party that runs milwaukee (and the illegals' union voces de la frontera) should make very job in the city of milwaukee pay a minimum of $15/hour and full benefits.

Quote:
Lastly, regarding education, I'm a MPS product, and my high school (Riverside) consistently ranks amongst the best public schools in Wisconsin.
I'm glad you went to riverside university high school. you are a fortunate person to have lived in that district so you can go to that school. Now that gov. walker has a program that allows "open enrollment" for public schools, maybe other people less fortunate could also attend that school. Wasn't it being an affiliate of uwm that turned it from an urban dump into a magnet school? (west is the same w/uw madison, btw).

You have lived a privleged life in milwaukee. Now what about the rest of the population there?

Quote:


Milwaukee Schools: Student Achievement in MPS

Reading

  • 39% at or above basic in grade 4 reading; only Detroit and Cleveland had worse results
  • 51% at or above basic in grade 8 reading; only Detroit, Fresno and Washington, DC had worse results
Math

  • 59% at or above basic in grade 4; only Detroit, Washington, DC, Fresno and Cleveland had worse results
  • 37% at or above basic in grade 8; only Detroit had worse results
Facts

  • Wisconsin has the largest black-white achievement gap in the country
  • 68% of 9th graders graduate in 4 years (08/09)
  • 26% of 9th graders repeat the 9th grade the following year (08/09)

Waiting for Superman - Milwaukee Education Facts | GreatSchools
and what's the dropout rate there again?
and the single teen pregnancy rate there again?
and the single mom head of household again?

this really isn't that complex.............
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Old 03-31-2014, 10:12 AM
 
5,549 posts, read 6,977,728 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milt14 View Post

then chicago should be an ideal place. or california. yet both places are continually faced with crippling government deficits,very high crime rates and an exodus of people and job creators.



How could you forget New York State? I have met more people who left NYS due to the high taxes and mediocre job opportunities than from any other state. NYS has been bleeding jobs for decades.
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Old 03-31-2014, 11:14 AM
 
35,324 posts, read 25,158,624 times
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Yet CA, NY, and Chicago all have lots of lots and tons of people moving to them all the time, and start ups creating jobs and technologies. Lived in the Bay Area, Chicago, and Boston and lived there because of the abundance of job opportunities. Heck, the WI Alumni Association in SF was crazy huge. It's big in Boston, but next level in SF and half appeared to be engineers.
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Old 03-31-2014, 12:04 PM
 
5,549 posts, read 6,977,728 times
Reputation: 2796
Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742 View Post
Yet CA, NY, and Chicago all have lots of lots and tons of people moving to them all the time, and start ups creating jobs and technologies. Lived in the Bay Area, Chicago, and Boston and lived there because of the abundance of job opportunities. Heck, the WI Alumni Association in SF was crazy huge. It's big in Boston, but next level in SF and half appeared to be engineers.

And most of those youngsters move out of those places within 2-3 years due to the high cost of living.

NY is not a place for startups.
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