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Old 12-12-2016, 09:40 AM
 
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
38,461 posts, read 28,457,399 times
Reputation: 35888

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Empidonax View Post
If Obama had been able to run for a third term, he probably would have won.
Probably? No question about it. He's managed the country with class. We've had a great economic recovery. He's looked upon with respect and admiration. He's a addressed real issues with eloquence and thoughtfulness, he's promoted the greatness of this country AND addressed directly so many of the negatives that do permeate the country. A true class act. He hasn't gotten as much done legislatively as I would hope, despite being a pro big business centrist, but when the other part says that there can be no compromise and we'll stand against you at every turn, what can he do? Nothing, for compromise, both parties need to be willing to compromise.
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Old 12-12-2016, 11:56 AM
 
Location: Bay View, Milwaukee
2,430 posts, read 4,507,705 times
Reputation: 3282
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccjarider View Post
While it cannot ever be proven, I have no doubt that Obama would have lost the electoral vote if he could have run. Fortunately, we never have to face that question.

I am at a loss as to how anyone would see the man as an effective change agent. He destroyed his party; helped foster growth of terrorism; set economic growth back years; created a divisive, toxic culture and looked with disdain on America. He was an ineffective leader, able to only get a few things through congress. Most of what he has tried was via executive order.

Fortunately Americans saw this and because of his lack of true change ability, we can easily undo the damage he caused. He will go down as a footnote of uselessness in US history.
It's impossible to know what his exact legacy may be, but conservatives will do their best to undo his achievements. In the meantime, he got the issue of basic healthcare as a human right on the table (with the help of Congress), he successfully oversaw the country's economic recovery after the devastating Bush years, he raised the prestige of the U.S. in most parts of the world, and his administration successfully repaired or began repairing relations with several countries. Not too shabby.

He didn't even come after our guns, and he's been a pretty bad role model for a muslim. Amazing!

Quote:
Any affects of man on global warming are easily mitigated or enhanced with a 10000 year period of solar activity or quiet. It is pompous to think that the 100 years of man's industrial activity has negatively affected this planet, which has been around for millions of years.
Science is not "pompous." In fact, it is "pompous" for people to look the other way and not engage appropriately with scientific realities. Is it "pompous" of humans to try to understand and eliminate diseases? To try to preserve ecosystems? Perhaps all interference with natural trends are "pompous"? Or just specific ones?

Quote:
It is a great scam though - "Don't you love the planet? Give us control and $ and we will do our best to assure your planet stays safe."
The scam comes from those saying that humans can pollute all that they want with no consequences.
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Old 12-12-2016, 04:48 PM
 
Location: Portland OR
2,060 posts, read 3,008,191 times
Reputation: 3109
Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742 View Post
Probably? No question about it. He's managed the country with class. We've had a great economic recovery. He's looked upon with respect and admiration. He's a addressed real issues with eloquence and thoughtfulness, he's promoted the greatness of this country AND addressed directly so many of the negatives that do permeate the country. A true class act. He hasn't gotten as much done legislatively as I would hope, despite being a pro big business centrist, but when the other part says that there can be no compromise and we'll stand against you at every turn, what can he do? Nothing, for compromise, both parties need to be willing to compromise.

Agree that the premise of our gov't operative is based on compromise. However you have to admit that Obama never offered to compromise on any of his initiatives. In 8 yrs, he never really talked with Congress. It's like it was beneath his dignity to do such a thing. Such a pompous ass.

As you state, he just liked to lecture us with "eloquence and thoughtfulness" on issues that were important to him, not necessarily the country.

Fortunately for the country, he turned out to be nothing more than a lazy ideologue.


You and I just look at the world differently. You claim a great economic recovery, I claim he has resided over an economic malaise. Growth rates of 1% for the entire two terms just plain suck. Millions of people will not have the lifestyle, nor retirement they could have had if we were able to have an even average economic growth rate.

For the first time in US history, life expectancy has fallen. Heroin deaths across the country have exploded. Millions of people are lost. Less that 50 % of kids today can expect to live as well as their parents. Prior to this decade, it's been in the 60-70% range.

These are evidence of a society in turmoil, not one run by a true leader.

WI and other states looked behind the curtain, understood what was there (another 8 yrs of same crap) and said "no thanks".

Last edited by ccjarider; 12-12-2016 at 05:14 PM..
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Old 12-12-2016, 06:17 PM
 
Location: M I N N E S O T A
14,873 posts, read 18,777,660 times
Reputation: 9184
The man who won Wisconsin (twice) will be in Milwaukee tomorrow night for his Thank you rally, should be a good show.
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Old 12-12-2016, 06:31 PM
 
3,463 posts, read 3,323,494 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iNviNciBL3 View Post
The man who won Wisconsin (twice) will be in Milwaukee tomorrow night for his Thank you rally, should be a good show.
OR, a bad show depending upon how one looks at it and what one thinks of him.
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Old 12-12-2016, 06:49 PM
 
Location: M I N N E S O T A
14,873 posts, read 18,777,660 times
Reputation: 9184
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corn-fused View Post
OR, a bad show depending upon how one looks at it and what one thinks of him.
I understand but those who support him will of course like to watch it, the energy at his campaign rallies are very fun to watch to me and im glad hes doing this little thank you rally after winning the election.
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Old 12-12-2016, 07:19 PM
 
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
38,461 posts, read 28,457,399 times
Reputation: 35888
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccjarider View Post
Agree that the premise of our gov't operative is based on compromise. However you have to admit that Obama never offered to compromise on any of his initiatives. In 8 yrs, he never really talked with Congress. It's like it was beneath his dignity to do such a thing. Such a pompous ass.

The Tea Partiers refused to compromise. The bragged about not willing to compromise. This is on them, they refused to engage. They just fought his initiatives without offering alternatives on which to build compromise. They offered nothing with health care, with sensible gun control, nothing on most any issue.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ccjarider View Post
As you state, he just liked to lecture us with "eloquence and thoughtfulness" on issues that were important to him, not necessarily the country.
Nope, on issues of importance to the country. Civil rights, health care, education, economic opportunity, these are the foundations of the country.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ccjarider View Post
You and I just look at the world differently. You claim a great economic recovery, I claim he has resided over an economic malaise. Growth rates of 1% for the entire two terms just plain suck. Millions of people will not have the lifestyle, nor retirement they could have had if we were able to have an even average economic growth rate.
Again, blame it on those that refused to embrace the new economy and change. States that have embraced it have good job growth, really low unemployment, etc.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ccjarider View Post
For the first time in US history, life expectancy has fallen. Heroin deaths across the country have exploded. Millions of people are lost. Less that 50 % of kids today can expect to live as well as their parents. Prior to this decade, it's been in the 60-70% range.
Yup, and its going to get worse until we truly fix our health care system. We pay more than anyone else for worse results. And what do the Reps want to do? Cut the health care provided. Idiots. We could move to full coverage instead, and have better results for a cheaper cost, but no.... that's "socialism"... BOOO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ccjarider View Post
These are evidence of a society in turmoil, not one run by a true leader.

WI and other states looked behind the curtain, understood what was there (another 8 yrs of same crap) and said "no thanks".
WI said no thanks and got left behind. No job growth, horrible in creating new businesses, failing education systems, etc. WI has fallen behind in almost every single economic and social indicator. It was 1000% better in the 1990s.

MN said, yup, this is the right track, and they've prospered. Embrace progress, the future, and the innovation economy. Invest in education, health care for all (like MA did a long time ago), civil rights for all, and you prosper.
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Old 12-13-2016, 07:29 AM
 
15,545 posts, read 7,382,423 times
Reputation: 15386
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccjarider View Post
Agree that the premise of our gov't operative is based on compromise. However you have to admit that Obama never offered to compromise on any of his initiatives. In 8 yrs, he never really talked with Congress. It's like it was beneath his dignity to do such a thing. Such a pompous ass.

As you state, he just liked to lecture us with "eloquence and thoughtfulness" on issues that were important to him, not necessarily the country.

Fortunately for the country, he turned out to be nothing more than a lazy ideologue.


You and I just look at the world differently. You claim a great economic recovery, I claim he has resided over an economic malaise. Growth rates of 1% for the entire two terms just plain suck. Millions of people will not have the lifestyle, nor retirement they could have had if we were able to have an even average economic growth rate.

For the first time in US history, life expectancy has fallen. Heroin deaths across the country have exploded. Millions of people are lost. Less that 50 % of kids today can expect to live as well as their parents. Prior to this decade, it's been in the 60-70% range.

These are evidence of a society in turmoil, not one run by a true leader.

WI and other states looked behind the curtain, understood what was there (another 8 yrs of same crap) and said "no thanks".
You've got Congress to blame, that's it. You know this, you're simply in a state of denial. Sad.
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Old 12-13-2016, 09:12 AM
 
Location: Portland OR
2,060 posts, read 3,008,191 times
Reputation: 3109
Quote:
Originally Posted by thefragile View Post
You've got Congress to blame, that's it. You know this, you're simply in a state of denial. Sad.
Of course Congress is PARTIALLY to blame.

But I ask you to show examples where Obama ever really reached out. He did not. He delegated his signature priority, Obamacare to Pelosi.

He then stayed out of the fray aside for the periodic stage lecture.

He did not use the bully pulpit to coerce, negotiate, brown nose, bargain or whatever other tactic it takes to get things done in Washington DC.

Don't get me wrong, I am glad he was a bad President.
He failed miserably on topics he would have liked to achieve and that is good for USA.

As I stated, in the end he was nothing but a lazy idealogue.

WI saw that eventually.
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Old 12-13-2016, 11:12 AM
 
9,337 posts, read 4,993,303 times
Reputation: 3696
Congress was not is not the problem. Not if one truly understands that our Democratic Republic form of government was designed with checks and balances with the intention of slowing government down and not allowing a majority to run riot over the minority. With this in mind, when the Democrats recover control of one or both houses of congress, and there is a Republican president whose policies and programs they do not support, then they should oppose his/her programs. It is our system.

It is also part of purpose of the electoral college. A majority of the country does not relate to, believe as, act as, nor live as Californians, as an instance. Take away the California vote and the popular vote differential for Mrs Clinton shrinks, significantly. Each candidate has a choice where to campaign, advertise; focus their efforts. As long as the electoral college is in our system, it is smart to follow the system. Mrs Clinton found that out.

Of course, a whopping 102 votes flipped to Mrs Clinton in Wisconsin as a result of the failed recount strategy. How much did that cost Wisconsinites per vote?
Quote:
Originally Posted by thefragile View Post
It's fascinating that you refuse to understand that congress was the problem. Who blocked any & all efforts? Congress. You can take your disdain & direct it toward the appropriate party, congress. As for the rest of your post, conjecture.
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